So I"ve modded my game into nigh-unplayability... : IV

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:42 am

I've spent a LONG time optimizing my copy of Oblivion. I ran PyFFI on everything, scoured countless forums and logs on how to optimize my Oblivion INI file, applied all the official and unofficial patches, ran BOSS to optimize load order, and even figured out how to improve my graphic card's performance without it heating up much.

Unfortunately, I've gotten a little too mod-happy, and on my midpowered machine Oblivion slows down to 2 or 3 FPS at times. The worst problem is when I'm in the middle of a large fight, and I'm hitting the enemy with an enchanted weapon of some kind, especially if they have Spell Absorption/Reflection. The rest of the time I get maybe 20 FPS, max -- which isn't unplayable but should definitely be improved. Interestingly, switching to 3rd person view often helps.

So, I was wondering if you'd be willing to take a look at my mod list (below) and help me understand which mods are likely the biggest performance hogs? Which ones would you recommend deactivating so my game can be playable again? Thanks in advance!

Edit: Before anyone asks, I have a P8400 CPU (2.3GHz Dual Core), Nvidia GeForce 9700M GT graphics card, and 4 GB RAM.

My mod list:

Spoiler

First, note that I have RAEVWD and Qarl's Texture Pack 3 Redimized installed. However, these two by themselves don't seem to hurt my FPS much - if I disable all of the mods below I get a very nice FPS.

Oblivion.esm
GTAesgaard_2.esm
All Natural Base.esm
Mart's Monster Mod.esm <--non-negotiable even though I know it can kill FPS

Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm
Kvatch Rebuilt.esm
BathingMod_Base.esm
CM Partners.esm
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp
Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp
All Natural - Real Lights.esp <--suspected FPS hog
All Natural.esp
All Natural - SI.esp
All Natural - EW + NW + AWS.esp
Natural_Water_by_Max_Tael.esp
Symphony of Violence.esp
MIS.esp
MIS New Sounds Optional Part.esp
Atmospheric Oblivion.esp
Storms & Sound.esp
36Sermons-Miltiades.esp
AliveWaters.esp
Book Jackets Oblivion.esp
FirstEditionGuidetotheEmpire.esp
ClocksOfCyrodiil.esp
CM_Better Wine.esp
CM_Better Wine_SI.esp
Daggerfallbooks.esp
Dancer_Undress0_6-10194.esp
ImprovedSigns.esp
Morrowindbooks.esp
Oblivion Cats v0.2b.esp
P1DseeYouSleep.esp
Reznod_Mannequin.esp
shiveringislesdoorusable.esp
Water Nymphs.esp
Living Economy.esp
Living Economy - Items.esp
Cutthroat Merchants.esp
moDem's City Life.esp
Populated Prisons.esp
Map Marker Overhaul.esp
Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp
DLCHorseArmor.esp
DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - DLCHorseArmor+Slofs .esp
DLCOrrery.esp
DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCSpellTomes.esp
DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp
Book Jackets DLC.esp
GrimbotsSpellTomes.esp
MaleBodyReplacerV5Beta.esp
ANBRobertsCupSizes.esp
Battlespire Books.esp
Ethereal - Armor Imperial Legion Edition.esp
FineWeapons.esp
Mithril and Orcish Weapon Sets by Ionis.esp
RustyItems.esp
RTFemaleReplacerV12.esp
TFF_Armor_Base.esp
TFF_Clothing_Base.esp
TFF_Clothing_SI.esp
AncientTowers.esp
DLCThievesDen.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp
Mart's Monster Mod.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Imperial Armor.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Durability & Damage.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Less Reavers.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Roads.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - No Carrion Rats.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Spawn Rates - Reduced.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp
BHC_Expanded.esp
GTAesgaard.esp
GTAesgaard_2.esp
Gates To Aesgaard 2 Delayer.esp
Jagnot- Imperial City Library V1.3.esp
300_White Stallion 4.esp
Kvatch Rebuilt.esp
Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp
Malevolent.esp
SIPalaceExpansion.esp
Thermae.esp
Arena_Capacity_Crowds-5845.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCFrostcrag.esp
Kvatch Rebuilt_Frostcrag.esp
DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp
BrumaMGRestored.esp
BrumaMGRestored-Frostcrag.esp
Knights.esp
Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Knights.esp
TOTF.esp
RTT.esp
The Lost Spires.esp
Lost Paladins of the Divines.esp
Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esp
EDI - Aggression Fix.esp
HeartoftheDead.esp
Medium_FPSFIX_Natural_Vegetation.esp <---I recently deactivated this and it has seemed to help
Harvest [Flora].esp
Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp
Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp
BFG's Open All the Gates.esp
Cliff_BetterLetters.esp
Cliff_RiskyInnBeds.esp
Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.esp
Exterior Actors Have Torches 1.3 DT.esp
Female Guards.esp
KT_KhajEyeToggle.esp
Salmo The Baker v2.0.esp
ScriptIcon_Replacer.esp
Slof's Dogs.esp
Storms & Sound - The Lost Spires.esp
BathingMod_Soap.esp
BathingMod_Bathroom_Upgrades.esp
BathingMod_Placeable_Bathtubs.esp
OWE&P.esp
RealisticFatigue.esp
RealisticHealth.esp
RealisticForceMedium.esp
RealisticMagicForceMedium.esp
Wizard'sSpellBook.esp
EnchantmentRestore.esp
EnchantmentRestore_Wells.esp
StealthOverhaul.esp
kuerteeClothingMatters.esp
Adrenaline Fuelled Archery- Bow Sway.esp
Combat Behavior 2.11b.esp
Marksman Velocity SI.esp
BFG's Enhanced Armory.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp
CM Partners.esp
Get Wet.esp
BubbleFx.esp
Visually Enchanted Damage and Absorb with Particles.esp
Visually Enchanted Drains 1.esp
Visually Enchanted Fire 3.esp
Visually Enchanted Frost 1.esp
Visually Enchanted Shock 1.esp
Visually Enchanted SoulTrap 1.esp
kuerteeCleanUp.esp

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:14 am

Get Wrye Bash and make a bashed patch. You can merge mods into the patch (I see several already you can do this with) and keep them active whilst reducing the number of plugins you are actually loading.

If you don't have it, get Oblivion Stutter Remover, as this can help maintain decent framerates when the game is loading in lots of new data.

Get Streamline, as well, it will help to improve the game's stability (Turn off StreamSmooth and StreamSight, though, you won't need those features).

And out of curiosity, did you do anything to the uGridDistantCount setting in your INI?

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:36 pm

As was mentioned, Wrye Bash & Streamline will be a big help here. However, MMM is all about the big fights, especially in later levels. You can try using the Reduced Spawn plugins, but your CPU is still the bottleneck of your system. Check your BIOS info to see what overclocking options are available, or consider investing in a faster CPU. I'm also using a full MMM install (part of FCOM) alongside All Natural. During large outdoor fights, I get about 10-15 fps w/ a 512mb gpu and a 2.8ghz dual-core overclocked to 3.4.

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:30 am

Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm
CM Partners.esm
AliveWaters.esp
Oblivion Cats v0.2b.esp
Water Nymphs.esp

Living Economy.esp <<<<<<<<<<<< Enhanced Economy is generally recomended instead LE
Living Economy - Items.esp
Cutthroat Merchants.esp

moDem's City Life.esp
Populated Prisons.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp
Arena_Capacity_Crowds-5845.esp
Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esp
EDI - Aggression Fix.esp
BFG's Open All the Gates.esp
Slof's Dogs.esp
CM Partners.esp
Get Wet.esp
BubbleFx.esp
Visually Enchanted Damage and Absorb with Particles.esp
Visually Enchanted Drains 1.esp
Visually Enchanted Fire 3.esp
Visually Enchanted Frost 1.esp
Visually Enchanted Shock 1.esp
Visually Enchanted SoulTrap 1.esp

Basically all the mods that add NPCs or creatures or custom graphics. The more you have, the more your FPS will suffer.
Also, as the others posted, get Wrye Bash and Streamline and OSR. With your processor, you cannot have a lot of CPU intensive mods and good FPS. You need to make a choice...

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:54 am

What's already said. Some notes:

Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm - I had to let it go because of the huge amount of Dremoras that can be spawned, even on low settings. I had like 1 FPS in the last huge fight I had with it checked.

Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp - Also quite demanding so I'd skip it.

Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp - Consider skipping.

Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.esp - Consider skipping.
Exterior Actors Have Torches 1.3 DT.esp - As above.

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:51 am

First, note that I have RAEVWD and Qarl's Texture Pack 3 Redimized installed. However, these two by themselves don't seem to hurt my FPS much - if I disable all of the mods below I get a very nice FPS.

First off make Bashed Patch with Wrye Bash; this can help a lot, and is vital to almost any heavily modded game. Offers a number of good tweaks as well.

RAEVWD can have quite a hit, that will have a big impact as more and more mods take up precious space (remember the problem can be cumulative) so you might want to disable some components - easy to do if you install it through Wrye Bash.

Now some comments on your load order:

Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp <-- Make sure you have the latest Supplemental (from Arthmoor, version 3.3 I think) if you don't already (same name.)

UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp <-- There is a Bashed Patch tweak for this, so with that you can drop this.

Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp <--- Not needed, might as well drop it.

All Natural - Real Lights.esp <--suspected FPS hog <-- It can be, yes. Especially when there are a lot of lights around. Try disabling it just to see if it helps (it is cool though, so I would try to keep it unless it is found to have a serious impact.)

All Natural - EW + NW + AWS.esp <-- This file is only a part of earlier versions of this mod (now this is controlled through an ini file) Download the latest version (just hit version 1.0! :celebration: )

Natural_Water_by_Max_Tael.esp <-- Some think this has some issues, dunno (I prefer Enhanced water 2.0 HDMI anyway.)

AliveWaters.esp <-- This can cause a hit sometimes.

Living Economy.esp <-- I know this comes with MMM or something (I don't use MMM myself) but the actual mod has been updated and renamed "Enhanced Economy." Check on MMM thread etc. for advice. (I think you can and should safely replace, but not for certain.)

Slof's Dogs.esp <-- MMM already has this included, redundant (This is noted in BOSS report, which you should use.)

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:52 pm

On the topic of UOP: Version 3.3 has a bad fix in there that can cause major problems with the final quest in the Fighters Guild line. I'd suggest waiting for 3.3.1 to be released so the bug is "un"fixed.

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:05 pm

Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm - I had to let it go because of the huge amount of Dremoras that can be spawned, even on low settings. I had like 1 FPS in the last huge fight I had with it checked.

True - the extra NPC's and gates, possible scripting overhead can get heavy. I skipped the mod this time around since I had some slowdowns using it.

Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.esp - Consider skipping.
Exterior Actors Have Torches 1.3 DT.esp - As above.

Everything connected to exterior I can understand since thats where most FPS issues are.
Dungeon Actors - I use that one since I really don't have any issues with FPS while in dungeons. Arkngt - do you think this mod might affect exterior FPS because of scripting?

I don't use Streamline because it adds more stress to the CPU and alleviates mostly GFX issues, but it is a great achievement and each to it's own. There is an older mod called Combat FPS Optimizer that can help you too if you get improvements by decreasing GFX settings.

An other setting in the Oblivion options is the range that you see NPC's, try lowering that as much as you can tolerate and see if you gain some FPS.

Also check up on Game Booster or the equivalent.
If you have lots of cores you can use Core affinity - set all other processes to some cores and Oblivion to it's own. I give Oblivion 2 cores because it does do a little on both, but not on three.

I am running my CPU at 4.2 but that still does not make Oblivion fly!

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:58 am

Everything connected to exterior I can understand since thats where most FPS issues are.
Dungeon Actors - I use that one since I really don't have any issues with FPS while in dungeons. Arkngt - do you think this mod might affect exterior FPS because of scripting?

Wouldn't think so and in fact I haven't used either, but I have to use the MMM No Lanterns plugin as I can get severe slowdowns in interiors when Adventurers carry lanterns and I just guess that it's the same with torches.

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:58 pm

Thanks all for the feedback. Some follow-up questions:

1. Using Wrye Bash - My understanding was that Wrye Bash helps with conflicts / stability, not necessarily with performance improvements. Does it do that too?
2. Oblivion Stutter Remover and Streamline - I use OSR, and I have Streamline installed, but I've gotten away from using Streamline because it's actually seemed to make things slower for me.
3. uGridDistantCount settings - yeah, I have the uGridDistantCount settings down to 9. I'm betting the game would be unplayable at the default of 25!
4. You gave me several suggestions for mods to ditch or upgrade, I'll give them a try and come back for more help. Thanks!

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:18 am

Thanks all for the feedback. Some follow-up questions:

1. Using Wrye Bash - My understanding was that Wrye Bash helps with conflicts / stability, not necessarily with performance improvements. Does it do that too?

Specifically, some options in Bashed Patch can help, e.g. the flickering from light sources can be disabled (really improves FPS for me), the lighting from spells can be removed (helps with large battles with mages), and some other useful features. There are stand-alone mods that do the two things above, but using Bashed Patch has the advantage of being compatible with everything.

» Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:30 am

Thanks all for the help. I haven't started doing any Bashing yet, but have implemented several of the other suggestions. It's amazing how much of a difference only a few changes made!

By doing the following, I increased from around 10 FPS to 30 FPS. And you were right, my CPU was clearly the limiting factor as it's still capping at about 80%, just like it was before.
--Increased stack size in Oblivion Stutter Remover
--Disabled Natural Water, MMM - Additional NPC Enemy Varieties, MMM - More Passive Wildlife, Exterior Actors Have Torches, Slof's Dogs, and CM Partners
--Upgraded All Natural to 1.0
--Deleted 300-White Stallion