I don't know what direction this thread has taken... glancing through it makes me think it is becoming an argument between the virtue of modding or something of that sort. Just addressing the prompt (I didn't even read the OP) I would disagree. If you go back and play Skyrim on the consoles, there are many basic errors still present in the game that make playing it just non-functional (Atronach in the Alteration tree, Blizzard, some of the Heavy Armor perks). Tack on weird glitches that finally got fixed but remained unfixed for a damn long time (the Solitude back door glitch pops readily to mind) and I see a very revolutionary way that mods will impact the consoles. Maybe revolutionary is too strong a word, but being able to have access to the robust problem solving capabilities of a rabid modding community makes me hopeful that I will be able to experience a Bethesda game with next to no annoying glitches present, and that's not even touching small content boosts and other additions that will undoubtedly breath life into my play experience. Having all this delivered on a platform I'm already familiar with is a huge boon.

I understand that modding will thrive on the PC. I understand that console mods won't probably be as robust. I think it is incredibly foolish to say it won't be a game changer though. It will LITERALLY change the game ha ha.

PC mods are a lot less restricted than what will be available for console mods. While I do believe that Bethesda will increase the amount of scripts available for Fallout 4 compared to New Vegas and Skyrim, there will still be a lot of mods that require the Fallout 4 Script Extender and unavailable for consoles. There is also the issue of copyright infringement mods and advlt only mods that will never make it onto the console or will be taken down as soon as Bethesda, Microsoft, or Sony are aware of these mods. So there will be no nudity mods and no Randy Savage dragon mods.

@ Redguard,

I have built and released over 40 mods.

I am a member of several mod teams and also produce stuff on my own. I know some of your fav modders at least through Email and know several retired Devs across many applications in computers, so uh ya whatever.

Same usertag as on Nexus.

Sad, that you think you gotta have SkyUI, SKSE...Nice programs I use them but for a long time they were not available so we did without.

The two mods I mentioned are both good mods and they don't need those which was the point that you missed by a county mile.

I input your name into reputable modding sites and find nothing? Who are you to say that mod authors will not meet the new challenges?

I read what you had to say and I don't find it particularly interesting and don't see how your points add up sorry.

_______________

That GDC vault video was worth watching so I guess there was that to view in this thread.

I'll take Todd Howard's word over some random poster on the internet (the website you linked, not you). Yes, the foundation of the Creation Engine started with the Gamebyro Engine. However, as Todd stated in his interview with Game Informer, BGS changed and upgraded virtually every aspect of Gamebyro that it was no longer the Gamebyro Engine. The team had completely custom built a new engine for their open world games, thus they call it the Creation Engine. So yes, it virtually is a completely unique, in-house engine built specifically for BGS games.

You aren't listening to me. I understand modding has nothing to do with affecting ESRB ratings. You are preaching to the choir. Again, it was the fact that a nvde mod brought attention for Oblivion to be re-rated that cost Bethesda millions. That is what they are talking about in that post I linked you where Bethesda tried to justify paid mods. While modding wasn't explicitly the reason the game received an "M" rating, it is because of mods that the ESRB re-reviewed the game and gave it an "M" rating. For the last time, modding cost Bethesda money from their perspective.

@ Redguard

Except that GDC vault video the representative from Bethsada that did the talking said mods help bring in money?

So which is the right statement?

Mods bring in customers.

That's the bottom line.

It also spawns off a lot more useful stuff besides which was item listed in the other listed video so Im guessing you didn't watch that.

Dude your not making any decent points here and now your thread has changed from Console Gamers wont play with mods or find the mods enjoyable enough to purchase more DLC to mods don't bring in more revenue or have useful purpose cause lose money on MA rating.

1. The same is true for PC. You either love to play the game and stay with it, or you don't and hop on the next franchise. This has nothing to do with console exclusivity, but is based on personal decision.

2. They don't play it because there's no Mods for Morrowind on XBOX? Doesn't this argument lever the first one? Usually the best Mods take around 3-4 month in making, everything beyond should be considered as grinding and polishing. Also, everybody has a different opinion on what's "best". I'm just afraid all the unexperienced players and modders will again focus on eye-candy Mods before the CK arrives, then flooding the technical sections with bug reports caused by overloaded games.

3. Yes, that's the plan. Play the game vanilla until the CK arrives and then start modding. That's how you do it. That's how it always has been done. Who said you won't get Mods immediately? Consoles may get it later, but not very much later I deem.

4. All your argument is based on what you've already said in point 1. Basically your whole wall of text repeats one thing over and over again...that consolers are impatient and volatile. Again, you either love the game and stay, or you don't.

5. You're probably right on nvde content and third party tools, but anything else will likely not be limited. The Workshop for Skyrim has limits as well, and yet it features more then 25.000 Mods. Enough for anyone to choose I'd say. Since modders for consoles will probably need a PC anyways, it's very likely that they will adapt to the given situation just as good as any ordinary PC player. They might even have the advantage of working with two platforms, and thus have the chance to develope content that goes beyond anything a PC developer couold achieve? I always imagined how it would be awesome to unifie PC with console gamers. More people = more content = more fun.

6. Don't underestimate the ingenuity of a Modder. Ways will be found. Problems will be solved and bugs will be squished. And maybe they could reintroduce on consoles what they weren't capable of forwarding on the Workshop because of the stired up masses. Consolers are used to DLC content. It's about time to bring back payed Mods!

The point I am arguing is that by the time mods are in a place where they could be a game changer, most console gamers playing Fallout 4 will probably have already moved on to a new game by then. Creating mods, especially the most popular ones, usually takes time as they are large and ambitious. Shelf life for most console games isn't very long. Most AAA games burn out after a few months and DLC can somewhat help revitalize them for a fraction of the original community.

For the record, I played Skyrim at launch and did not have SkyUI (was very painful) or SKSE as they did not exist. My point is the most popular mods on PC will not be available on console. A point you continue to ignore. Yes, some mods will be available, such as pure content mods. However, that will largely be the extent of it. Most of the popular mods for Skyrim are not just content mods. Most are overhauls or improve the game in some way that won't be possible on consoles. Either way, it takes time to develop these mods and many on consoles probably wouldn't be playing the game anymore anyways. Falskaar took years to make, so even the mods you listed likely wouldn't be experienced.

You are welcome to open up TESV.exe in a hex editor and look for yourself.

Regardless, your point was that the Creation Kit / GECK takes longer to come out for Skyrim / FO4 because the game engine is more technical. This doesn't make any sense. We can directly compare and contrast the different versions of the Construction Set / Creation Kit / GECK and see that they are all pretty much the exact same program. They all use the same ESM / ESP / BSA formats. They have very similar quest systems, dialog systems, object editing options, etc. We know that the Bethesda developers use pretty much the exact same tools that we as modders are given.

I see that you missed the quote from Patricia Vance there. The reason the ESRB changed the Oblivion rating was because Bethesda put in content that was not disclosed to the ESRB, but was later revealed by a mod. Bethesda had no reason to include briasts / nipbles at all in the femaleupperbody.nif but they left it in anyway. They gave the ESRB a trailer that was specifically designed to get Oblivion a Teen rating instead of a Mature one, as the quote from Patricia Vance clearly shows. It is not the fault of mods or modders that Bethesda "lost millions" because the fault lies entirely with Bethesda. Bethesda can say what they want all day long, but that doesn't make it true.

No. This is no general attack that all console gamers are "volatile" and "impatient." My point is that game retention on consoles is short because the industry has been built to constantly release new content for gamers to consume. Yes, this is particularly the case for console gamers as they are the largest market of the gaming industry. PC gaming is a niche and unconstrained so different kinds of experiences are possible on PC gaming that are not possible on consoles. Again, the issue here is by the time a respectable mod community has likely formed on consoles it's probably too late.

Also, I'd like to point out you are making a huge assumption here that most modders use Steam Workshop. Certainly many more novice modders will use that tool as its easy and convenient, but Nexus Mods and other sites are still the go to modding website with no restrictions whatsoever. The best mods are only available on these 3rd party fan sites. Steam Workshop has restrictions for obvious reasons and consoles will have even more. When I generally refer to modding on PC, I do not mean with Steam Workshop, as that's a relatively new platform. Modding on PC has existed for decades.

Overhaul mods do not actually require a script extender or a specialized MCM menu.

If you only just started modding with Skyrim I can see how that might confuse you before that we had complete overhauls that managed without. The mcm menu has mostly been used as an easy way to provide more options to the end user but those functions were always there for those of us that know how to use the tools and besides many a mod author created very handy menu's of their own to provide options in game for their mod.

Although its amazing what can be done with SKSE it'll be months if not more than a year for F4SE to be available and if your hungry for new stuff that only uses that well man gotta be honest here your going to have to wait a good while yet.

As someone that plays consoles a lot, a whole lot, I have to agree with this 100%. With every Bethesda game since Morrowind, I get it first on the console because my PC is old. When the game is about two years old and PCs have caught up at a cheap price, I buy the PC version of the game so I can play at ultra graphics and mod it.

But I still play on my console because I enjoy sitting in my living room while sitting on a couch with a controller.

What I'm trying to say is that neither one is better than the other.

By the way, I've loved Veronica since I was a little boy! Never liked Betty......

The problem is you are looking at gamers by a case by case scenario. I am looking at the broad picture of all console gamers. There are statistics proving that most gamers don't even finish the games they buy, especially ones as large as Fallout 4. No, most gamers on consoles are not investing hundreds of hours into BGS games. That is the minority.

You lost all credibility using a fallacious argument that your opinion was superior to mine. The point is there are serious hurdles BGS needs to overcome and by the time they do, I think the train will already be gone for most console gamers. That's just the reality of the platform. However, if you have nothing else to add, feel free to move on to the next thread.

I never thought of mods on consoles to be anything more then a novelty.

Console gamers IMO aren't interested in investing alot of time in a game, but that's exactly why they bought consoles in the first place.

Morrowind till this day has people modding for it. I highly doubt console folks are that dedicated.

I couldn't relate to Betty at all (I'm a female)...Betty was such a pushover, Veronica gets things done, and she looks great doing it.

I play on my couch using my PC, have an awesome setup here running PC through receiver using HDMI to my huge 57 inch TV set (with a wireless mouse and keyboard), which most people will end up doing instead of using consoles in the future. Games are really immersive and look amazing!

I'm sorry but I just cannot agree with this. As I write this I am looking at my original PlayStation with FF7 inside of it. I played Oblivion, Skyrim, and Fallout 3 literally for years on my 360.

There are always exceptions to the rule. If there are particular games you are fond of, then yes it is likely you will return to them years later. I often will go back through Knights of the Old Republic I and II, the Mass Effect Trilogy, all of the Dragon Age games, every BGS game going back to Arena, all of The Witcher games. However, it is because I am a dedicated fan to these particular games and studios and have played these games for decades.

Not everyone going to buy Fallout 4 is a diehard BGS/Fallout fan. Some will merely buy it because it's a highly anticipated AAA title coming out this year. Do you really believe that a majority of people who buy this game, who are on console, will invest hundreds of hours into Fallout 4? I believe that's foolish and naive to believe. Without a doubt this game will sell well and likely break records, but only a small fraction of the community on consoles, and particularly on PC, will play Fallout 4 religiously for years to come.

Again, BGS' goal is to have mods as accessible to as many people as possible. By the time mods have fully developed on consoles (it could be a year after Fallout 4 was released), many console gamers will likely have moved on to something else. That's just the nature of the business. There's always another highly anticipated title around the corner. Whether it's Uncharted 4, No Man's Sky, Mass Effect Andromeda, etc., there's always something new that gamers will gravitate towards.

I suspect most modders will concentrate on PC mods, because it will be easier to make for PC as well as there being less restrictions, and the community for PC is huge and welcoming already.

New games don't get released on PC now?

This is what I'm concerned about. The entire success of mods on consoles are dependent on mod authors on PC making their mods accessible to console gamers via Bethesda.net. The problem with this is what incentive to mod authors have to make sure their mods are compatible on consoles? Making mods work on PC is a herculean effort in itself without considering two other platforms.

I think it's going to take a very long time before we see any credible or consistent modding presence for consoles. By then, again it goes to my point that I think most console gamers would have moved on. Sure, the diehard BGS/Fallout fans will still be around playing on consoles, but they are a minority, not the majority.

I call BS. I played Morrowind for over a year on xbox. Consistently, every day, only had 3 differentt characters too.

Is this guy for real..

'console gamers' are not some casual sub-species without intelligence or patience.

This is a new thing.

If it works well it will flourish.

Windows 10 gets released on XBox One this week. Simple to port PC mods to XBox One when OS is almost identical.

All speculation though. Most PC gamers have little knowledge of what consoles are capable of today.

This coming from a former PC gamer who started his Bethesda experience with Arena on release day.

Mods are awesome, but graphical mods add nothing to the story or gameplay. It's eye candy. Who needs it.

Some of the most downloaded mods are UI improvements, armor and weapon additions, clothing, etc, and I expect we'll see a number of those on consoles rather quickly.

But rather than blow it off before it happens, maybe wait and see how it plays out. It's new.

And really, as PC gamers, why do you even care?

I would venture that console gamers are more dedicated to the game as they play for years without mods, whereas a PC player plays for a few weeks and thinks the game sux unless it can be modded to "oblivion".

Hey SofaJockey, are you by any chance the same SofaJockey from BSN( Bioware Social Network )?

You appear to be confusing mainstream/casual game players as actual console gamers.