I've always wondered what Tamriel and the realm of Nirn would be like in the future when they've reached new technologies like guns and such what would change and such and how long it would take them to reach that stage of culture. Along with the other races as well as magicka how their world would be different. Would the Imperial city be redesigned in the future after years of decay and such. Would teachings of the guilds and other books still be around or would they forget mostly everything of their ancient past such as we with Rome, and the medieval times? Would the nine (the 8 and the 1) allow such advances in technology?

There are so many questions on how even the daedric lords and the other realms such as oblivion and others (even the shivering Isles) would change or would they forever be stuck in the medieval like style of life with swords, magicka and poverty?

I'm pretty sure the Spheres of the Daedras would remain similar to it's original way.
But of course, they might alter them to fit more into their likings.

Daedra can't alter their spheres. They are the representation of those spheres, it is not the other way around, as far as I know. But I don't think Tamriel would even need guns, although they do have cannons. They have magic, and most significant technological advances have been taught by the Daedra anyway (such as music).

Ah yes, I forgot that part, but I'm not entirely sure if they actually cant alter their spheres. I know that they're their spheres, but shouldn't they be able to at least change it a bit?

Daedras and Aedras ain't my subject thou, so I can be totally of the charts.

Sheogorath altered his, but maybe that's more to do with the Greymarch transformation than his own whims.

http://elderscrolls.blogspot.com/2005/10/loveletter-from-fifth-era.html.

Where it shows that it's some kind of weird, cyber-world, that is all underground or something....I don't know, the Loveletter freaks me out.

I think the spheres are more a representation of who the Daedra is, not the other way around... My position on this comes from the theory that the Daedric realms of Oblivion are just like Mundus only with a single creator (the Deadra Prince) whereas Mundus was a conglamorate effort on the part of several (the Divines, Magnus, Lorkharn, et al.). This would suggest that Mundus represents many spheres and therefore has much more room to accomodate whereas the Oblivion realms would be unaffected by technology.

Verlox,

The 5th Era is no more cybernetic than the current 4th. Many of the terms mentioned in the letter are found in other texts, in one form or another. If anything, it is a more 'traditional' world than the current, with a greater focus on the religious and metaphysical. It seems that the Landfall has made a united peoples, and the need for survival has eliminated lesser pursuits.

Guyver,
Most who raise these topics ignore the magical nature of Nirn. They do not need to develop faster forms of transport (automobiles, for example) because of magic does it faster, better, and more efficiently. Same thing goes for many other developments which make our world what it is. Most of our innovations came about because of societal demands - the need for more food, more clothing, better defense, etc. These problems can be solved in Tamriel through magic.

Your poverty comment was amusing.

I'm a bit sceptical about that last statement - the altmers are staunch aedra worshippers - that's why the velothi exiled themselves - yet they are the source of a lot of Tamriel's current science and arts. And their culture didn't froze in stagnation after the velothi's departure - it seems to be more recent trend.

The most striking counter example would be the dwemers. They were even less likely to accept anything from the Daedra, yet developed mundane and magical technologies that still send Tamriel's best and brightest scratching their heads in confusion. And were leagues ahead of what the Daedra-favored chimers could get. If the daedras were Tamriel's sole source of progress, I'd think the sithuation would be the reverse.

Though nothing in the Loveletter specifically makes reference to a futuristic or "cyber" society, there is definitely a kind of strange new ambiance to the message. In particular, "Ald Sotha Below" makes me wonder if Sotha Sil's labors in making the Clockwork City were as fruitless as commonly believed.

Ald Sotha was a Daedric ruin near Vivec in the game, it has little to do with Sotha Sil's clockwork city besides part of the name.

However, this perhaps indicates that the Dunmer of the fifth era have reverted to their traditional Daedra veneration in the absence of Almsivi. The description of the Digitals certainly sounds like Et'Ada to me.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Magitek

:o

anway.... I actually doubt they would ever get started on industry since there's no need for it.....

Nine times nine thrones?

Eighty and one?

Hmm...

guns won't be needed especially when actual people in tamriel can fling fireballs from their hands however maybe future tamriel will be more magic based for a more fruitful, powerful way of living.

Not everyone is talented enough to fling fireballs or even use basic spells thou.

But I agree they wont be needing technology anytime soon.

I was discussing this exact same thing with my friend a while back. Specifically the issue of "Guns in Tamriel" Personally I think (and hope) they'll never happen.

There are 2 reasons for this.

1. Lack of Necessity: Like it was mentioned around here, people have magic, so they don't even really need guns. When you live in a society where even the most magickly incompetent person can launch a fireball out of your hand that has the same destructive force as your modern world RPG-7, the necessity for gunpowder weapons falls dramatically.
And yes, I'm aware that not everyone in Nirn is magically attuned. However, there is a workaround for that too: Magic staffs. They don't require the user to have any magical experience whatsoever, and can be recharged at will, and the "ammunition" is not all that difficult to get ahold of. But more on these later.
2. If it was possible/neccesary, it would have been done already. Seriously, the empire has been around for quite a few millenia, and I haven't bothered to actually count the years, but its actually a lot further than our own recorded history. And that's just counting the HUMAN side of Tamriel's history. Thats not even counting the mythic era, which had even more techically/magicly advanced races (the Dwemer, Aylieds) than the ones currently found on Tamriel today, who were around for gods-know how many years before the Allesia uprising and the start of the 1st era.
If at any point during this LONG history it would have been necessary or even POSSIBLE to create them, guns would have already been around for a long time. However, as we all know, this is clearly not the case. Even the most technologically advanced race on the planet EVER, the Dwemer, never had them (at least as far as I know, I've only played morrowind and oblivion), and they would have been the first ones to create them, and they in some aspects were even MORE technologicly advanced than we are. (Working walker Robots.) It leads me to believe that if the DWEMER didn't have guns, yet they had working robots, it leads me to believe that not only is the creation of black powder guns unnecessary, but its also not even possible on tamriel. More on the black powder theory below.


The below are simply assorted theories of mine.

"Black Powder (or lack thereof)" Theory My personal theory into one of the major causes of lack of primitive guns is the lack of one key ingredient to the whole system: Black Powder. Now on earth this material is not all that hard to find. However, my theory is that in Tamriel, this key ingredient to firearms is rare, or non-existent. And unless there was something in the pre-morrowind era games that points to the existence of gunpowder, I can find no evidence that black powder even EXISTS on nirn, just like how Ebony doesn't exist here on earth.

Theory of weapon evolution Here is my theory on what will happen with weapons technology:
1. Guns WILL appear, just not in the form people expect them to (Black powder/projectile weapons). In fact, they ALREADY exist in a form. Confused? here's a hint: In oblivion, You find them in the hands of conjurers, Necromancers, and you get one during the mages guild questline. Thats right, i'm talking about... STAVES! these enchanted sticks are basicly the Tamrielan equivalent to early firearms. Now you'll probably say "now now wait a minute, enchanted sticks are not guns. they are held differently and stuff" but remember: the first real world firearm was basicly just a portable cannon barrel with a miniature cannon projectile. In other words, The enchanted stave is essentially the beginning of firearms. Even here, these are already more effecient than pre-civil war firearms: While a firearm only has one possible use (to kill things) a stave can be used for multiple things (some can unlock doors, some can charm people, some can cause them to quit fighting, etc), Also early firearms took a LONG time to reload, hence why most pirates had to carry 3 or 4 pistols on them at a time. A stave, while not as fast as your modern day AK47 or M4 carbine, is still quite fast considering the slow speeds of real world equivalents during that time in history.
Heres my theory about what will happen with weapon evolution:
1. Someone will get the idea "Oh hey, maybe I should put a handgrip on this stick! That way I can Aim with it hit things with it easier." Enchanted stave rifle
2. then someone will get the idea "Oh hey I should cut the stick down a bit so I can hold it with one hand and hide it in my cloak easily" - Enchanted Stave Pistol
3. People will alter the designs slightly until what they get are enchanted stave pistols and possibly sniper rifles if that even. I'm not sure if repeaters would play much of a role. The reason being that in real life, guns by themselves could only do so much, and higher power weapons to kill things easier are harder to make and use. Staves don't have that restriction: it will react the same way whether your launching a small chain of lighting or a fireball capable of taking out entire city streets at a time.
4. Enchanting will become easier and more efficient. Someone will find a more efficient way to recharge them (like how to make Varla stones??) And enchant them. Thus the enchantments will become more effectual, and more easy to replace.

In short: there won't be gunpowder weapons, they'll just go right straight to pseudo energy weapons.

I don't really buy the gunpowder theory. As was mentioned, there are allusions to the existence of cannons in Nirn. How would these cannons work without some form of propellant? Of course, they could be some sort of magical propellant or cannon could mean something completely different in Nirn than it does on earth. I always thought fire salts were basically gun powder...

And gun powder needs to be made, it isn't found out in nature. To prove that gun powder is possible, you just need to prove that Nirn has sulfur and nitrates.

And I could totally see the fighters guild researching non-magical technology for combat, there would be a need to research armor piercing projectiles.

I'm pretty apathetic about it though. I think I would be ok with firearms if it is done right, and I would be cool if they never had em.

your black powder theory is good, but it's wrong.


Let's look at the ingredients for Black Powder. Potassium Nitrates, Charcoal, and sulfur.

Let's start with sulfur: sulfur Is an organic atom, meaning life depends on it to survive.

Next charcoal: Charcoal is made by the decayed remains of ancient trees, after it is burned. easy to get.

Now Potassium Nitrate: this one's trickier, but it seems like the production of it is extremely simple. And it involves materials in abundance in Tamriel (urine, for example)

It was a good idea but it's wrong.

I think the problem here is that you are applying RL science to a world that was unwittingly created by divine descendants of chaos and stasis.

Honestly I don't think Tamriel will ever be 'modernized' nor does it need to be. Knowledge of magic might increase but like others have said there's no need for firearms, vehicles or industry. I don't think you could ever apply the word 'modern' to Tamriel in the same sense we use it here in real life. Why go through the pain of building a mechanism to fire a bullet when you could learn a quick fireball spell that's just as or more deadly? Why make a vehicle to move you which takes so many resources, when with the flick of a finger a mage could instantly get you to another location across the continent?

I could see many years in the future in Tamriel public portals between cities, magic being more common and used in daily life, armor enchantments growing stronger to withstand magic so warriors don't become obsolete, and maybe general minor lifestyle changes but nothing too drastic really. Besides, why get too complicated when a Daedric lord could decide at any moment to pour their army through a portal into your city?

Here's an example of something you might see in the lines of weaponry advancement... imagine a cannon on the wall of a city. Now imagine it not having a hollow barrel, and it doesn't fire a projectile. Instead, it has a rod on the end and the inside is full of magical crystals, or soulgems or something... The rod is used to generate magical energy and direct it in a straight line, but the cannon could be turned in any direction. Even still, a few very skilled mages on the top of that wall could probably do the same thing and then some.

I'm confused. He's talking about what black powder is and where it comes from. And it looks like everything needed to make black powder, or something close to it, is readily available in Nirn. Are you saying real world science shouldn't apply to anything in the Elderscrolls universe?

Well, yes, and arguing the point too sharply one way or the other will result in the moderators putting a stop to it.

You can make anologies to the real world to explain things that are known or do exist in Tamriel. (You can't push them too far; for example, anologies between TES and real-world astronomy break down quickly.)

But to claim that something should or must be known, or should or must exist, on Tamriel because it is known or exists in the real world is on much shakier ground and wants considerably more foundation than just possibility.

The Dwemer had machinery, steam power, electricity, electric light, and explosives. How they came to have these, when now nobody understands their working or the writings the Dwemer left about them, is and remains a central mystery of the game world, at least until better explanations are given in canon and secondary works. Anything else is just speculation and has to be taken with a properly reduced level of absoluteness.

My head hurts. :stare: