Once I manage to find the updated patches i'll install them. What IS the latest version?

3.4

They're on the Nexus page...

And make sure your base game is up to date as well.

Active Mod Files:

You still haven't gotten rid of everything and tried it without OOO and you have yet to answer whether or not you changed the INI file.

I didn't modify the ini, and now more meshes are missing than before since upgrading the patch. And why am I trying it without OOO again? I know for a fact it won't crash. Or if it does, its extremely rare. The crashes don't occur until I start using 3rd party mods. I'll try it anyways.

To track down the crashes...

Install order should be as follows for what you are currently doing:

Vanilla
Unofficial patches (could put graphics replacers before this step)
Rest

And make sure BSA redirection is enabled, if you're using Bash.
And make a Bashed Patch, it's got some useful options available.

Well, I guess I was wrong, it is crashing, it seems to crash during attacking now:

Active Mod Files:

Not every attack, but its crashed twice, both while I was attacking or right after I attacked.

What is BSA redirection and what are bash "options"? I thought Bash Patch was just for making leveled lists, none of the mods I have have leveled lists do they?

It's not just for leveled lists. It can do a lot of other stuff. Read it in the ReadMe. Reading the documentation should be the first thing anyone does.

The documentation for all of these tools and mods is bigger than a 1000 page dictionary....

I am really considering just doing it how I had it the first time, then adding the foot step fix. I really do think that is what the issue was, and I think its crashing now outside of walking because I removed CPS. And I bet if I add CPS, the crashes while attacking will go away, and the crashes while walking will go away if I add the foot step fix.

Infact, i'll go do that now. If I can find that foot step mod I sued before. Way back.

Found it, however it doesn't mention anything about crashes related to footsteps.

No it's not. If it was, it would take a lot longer than a couple hours to read through. Read all the documentation for all the stuff you are using.

A couple hours is a long time, esp when I won't need 90% of it, nor will I understand 95% of it. And I have already modded oblivion in the past with pretty much the exact same mod list, without it. Really I think people on these forums now would rather not help and just redirect everyone to jumping through redundant hoops. Honestly, I don't even want to play oblivion bad enough to have to do a university level research paper on it just to get some mods working.

Even the whole BAIN thing, I read it and it looks like all it does is take the "drag and drop" install method for mods, and adds 500 more layers of complexity for no apparent reason. What is the point? Can you even tell me? Why is spending 20 minutes setting up a mod to be installed with BAIN, better than me opening an archive and dragging files into /data/ ? Pretty much every single mod I used needs special setup to be installed with bain, and all of that requires reading more hours of documentation. And ontop of all that, BAIN doesn't do anything to improve compatibility. It still just randomly installs all of yours mods, unless you take out even more time to configure each and every individual package separately.

And when all of that redundancy fails, the only answer is to reinstall everything. These forums used to be a much friendlier and helpful place. 5-6 years ago.

No, you need to read the documentation. You don't read it, you won't have a clue what to do and are really wasting people's time. Helping is one thing, doing it for you is another.

I did, I read the whole documentation on BAIN, and I concluded it adds complexity for no apparent reason. It was really a waste of time. The only reason it seems to use bain is if you are too stupid to know how to drag esp/esms to your data folder, and other relevant files to their relevant folders. I view OBMM packages in a similar light, only less harsh because you don't have to configure anything for OBMM, you just double click and it installs and/or gives you options.

If you had, you would know what a Bashed Patch is and how to use BSA redirection. It's not a waste of time.

Until you read the documentation for everything you are using, mods or tools or other stuff, you're not likely to get much help here.

You'll also have a better chance at working things out on your own.

Ive never even heard of BSA redirection until today.

I have spring break coming the week after next, I think i'll try one last time to install these mods without crashes. If not I am just going to give up, its not worth the hassle.

I actually had less crashes on my old eMachines pc, it had a 2gh cpu, an if I remmeber correctly ati radeon 1600? And on board sound, oblivion ran better on that than it did on my current pc.

Edit: I said its a lot of pages because documentation means, the whole wyre website, the entire tescosi wiki, every readme for the mods, every mod page on the nexus and every page of every mod thread. That is defiantly over a thousand pages. And there are probably more places you want me to go read. Oh, also the whole FCOM website, and all of the info threads on the forums. And all of their pages.

Not sure how one can state they are a long time mod user and then follow that up with the comment that BAIN "adds complexity for no apparent reason." If you use a good amount of mods, or want to switch between overhauls, BAIN is the only way to go. Yes, to install a mod all you need to do is drag and drop, but what files does that mod share with other mods? How do you manage the conflicts between textures, meshes, etc.? Are you dragging and dropping mods in the order you want? Good luck with that, and good luck modifying your installation down the line.

I have a 250 mod setup that when I ran into problems, I was able simply go to my installers tab and uninstall BAIN packages one by one until I located AULIAS as the reason for the problem. Did I have to track down each specific file that I would have dragged and dropped otherwise to uninstall these mods? Nope. I also have the ability to easily switch to a FCOM setup or a TIE setup if I want by just installing that section of BAIN packages. Or, I have a section for Quest mods, and I can simply install a quest mod, see how it plays to determine if I want to pursue. Some of which have hundreds of files I would have to manually track down otherwise... Did this setup take awhile to create? Yes, but then again, if I didn't want to put in that effort, I would just play Oblivion with 5-10 core mods and call it a day.

This does not even begin to discuss the importance of bashed patches, which without would make these complex modblivions impossible. I don't mean to be preachy, but trust me, BAIN is without a doubt worth the few minutes it takes to move a few files around and re-zip into a compatible format if you want to have an Oblivion game with a good amount of mods. I was there in the drag and drop days, and I would NEVER go back. Also, a lot of new mods are already in BAIN format.

As for the complexity, read through Psymon's thread on BAIN formats. It is not really as complex as everyone makes it out to be. Once I created a few, I was putting together body style packages, with 3-4 options to switch between; overhaul installers, etc.

I can see the usefulness of removing resources. As for if resources over write each other, sure it happens, but I never really considered that an issue. As for bashed patches, I use them, got no problem with them, they are easy to make, you just build one and press okay a few times, lol.

The real magic of BAIN is not in installing mods, it is in UNinstalling mods, and troubleshooting. OBMM cannot even compare, and doing it manually is madness.

If you're actively choosing not to read documentation, then I frankly don't see why anyone should help you. It's not fun to write, it exists because it is necessary.

Modders have already given you a lot of help by writing the docs. You're throwing away that help and asking them/us to help you again.

Once burned, twice shy, I say.

This thread should be preserved as one of the all time greatest examples of "doin' it wrong".

Also, deaths_soul's avatar is so very appropriate to the proceedings.

Say that you see a new high res armor replacer for a set of armor.

Then later you decide to install a more general set of texture replacers for all armor. The first set would be overwritten by the second.

Only BAIN allows you to swap those out without the added task of having to uninstall/reinstall all the other aspects of each mod. Oblivion does best on a defragmented drive and so the less you can do heavy handed file swapping the better.

I'm curious what parts of BAIN you think are useless or needlessly complex. Granted it is needlessly complex if all you want to use is 10 mods, yet even with 10 mods it handles them more thoroughly than any other installer.

I think probably it is more the case that you just haven't found a need for all that complexity. Let me assure you though that all the features are there to serve a purpose. Why would anyone bother to code them for no reason at all?

wha .. I turned patriarch ... just noticed that. Odd names - patriarchal is not considered a cool thing in my world.

[edit] Crojob-
Also the point of having everything controlled by BAIN is that it will visually give you the info on under and overwrites and save you from having to remember what went in when and what overwrites what.

I thoroughly recommend working through the Wrye Bash Pictorial Guide. It is designed for those who are unfamiliar with Wrye Bash, and want to learn quickly. Of course, it covers BAIN and the Bashed Patch, among other things.

There is no comparison, no alternative. If you want to play with lots of mods, use Wrye Bash. Even if you do not want to, learning about Wrye Bash will teach you much about how Oblivion itself works, which is always a good thing.

I find bain to be about clean install/uninstall. if i have just installed a several hundred mb mod, its comforting to know that in just a few seconds, i can remove it if it seems determined to eat my game. "drag and drop" while effective, is also very hard to clean up if you mess something up. I live for bain now, and am loving the wizards too.

I should write this procedure up and put it on my thread, but the gist of it is that all that BAIN records as being installed is saved in the installers.dat file.

Recently rebuilt computer and had my BAIN archive on a separate hard drive. After installing the game I then edited the bash.ini to look at that archive and since I keep the installers.dat locally I also backed that up. By plugging in the backed up installers.dat file as soon as I opened BAIN for the first time all the packages were in the right order and were read as installed but missing.

One could then choose to:
1. All at once reinstall them (a way to reinstall the game you had).
2. Uninstall them all (a way to keep the order of the packages in the BAIN archive but not have them installed - good for working with multiple installs).
3. Individually install or uninstall each package.

This has worked with Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, FNV ... and next I'm working on Fallout 3.