Is anyone talking about bots here? Bots are against the rules. We are talking about mods.

Any idea if mods and such will reach the consoles, I would be interested to have a mod that allowed me to see allies stamina + magicka as to have a rough idea if continuing to kill is a good idea or wait 10/15 seconds while grouping. But also if no mods for console that wont be such a bad thing, purely down to the player that way.

That is right, someone with mods is more likely to win against a player of equal skill. That doesn't change the fact that Skill compensates for mods? That leads back to my other post:

The whole point of this thread is that you want people to opt out of playing with people who have mods?

Mods can be compensated for with skill.

Therefore you want people to opt out of playing with others who have a higher ability then their own for fear of being kicked?

Skill isn't a good reason to put people in different shards, beginners can get better by playing with intermediates.

He's right, but your point is very valid if you consider a bot program an addon. TESO does not consider that as such, though.

Yes you can see the "interrupt" prompt at 1:21 in the video I posted in the OP.

I may use some mods to try utilise my damage to the maximum, that is if I get into the PvE of this game enough.
If people don't want to be forced into using mods, join a guild that doesn't force it on you, there are plenty out there, I had enough of being dictated how to play in WoW therefore I won't let the same thing happen in this game because it spoils the fun.

So we've established so far that CKW was right.

I want people who want to play together to have an easier time connecting with each other. It's not about players being kicked or segregation. This is a convenience tool; a means to an end, and that end being you and I playing with people who we most enjoy playing with based on what can be likened to a personality matching system.

Playing with like minded players is always the best thing. If you don't endorse mods then play with other people who feel the same. There's no need to project that issue onto the player base at large by adding the option in though. So I agree, join a guild.

And you can also see the big red sparkling cues lightning around the enemy that you have to interrupt?

Admitting you can't notice stuff like widely advertised cues is basically saying you need the crutches and think they're mandatory.

I'm against this option. It means some people will get thrown in with the people who use combat oriented UI mods like the one shown in the video even if they're just using something more akin to SkyUI.

I don't really care if someone is using mods or not. I love the minimal ui but I know I'll end up wanting to change the ui a bit and either I'll write a mod to do it or I'll find one I like.

If you don't like mods, don't use them. Simple.

That I feel is the problem. Mods will be as "optional" as wearing appropriately upgraded gear. Everyone short of the very best will need a mod to be competitive. Here's an extreme example: It's like saying it's fine for you to be playing chess against someone with an AI that has memorized thousands of game outcomes helping him. All you need is more skill!

I would leave the logistics side of the option to ZoS. Our focus as a community is "do we want this option?"

We've established that mods can be compensated for with skill.

CKW was right in saying that the player who has mods will have an advantage over a player of equal skill

I want to play with all people. I want to help people who might not understand a mechanic or know when to interrupt. The point of an MMO experience is to play with others we might not otherwise. I would join a dating site if I wanted my personality matched to someone elses.

I've already seen people claim they need them *just to play at all.* Mostly in arguments about how some of the functions should have been part of the default UI, but still...

I guarantee you won't hear them using the mods as 'excuses,' because they'll be using them (though I'd wager a few of them would use the lack of said mods as an excuse if they got taken way.) And you won't hear it from me either, as I'll be holding my nose and using them as well.

Because having less information than everyone else is a handicap - regardless of being able to function without it, or whether or not the level of difference it makes is "gamebreaking."

DPS meters are the beginning for elitism which will affect the entire game.

Its been said is so many threads now that I have lost count.

Its just a matter of time before people start making others prove their DPS capability before they get accepted for a dungeon run or Adventure zone.

This is where the elitist plebs start kicking those they just don;t feel has the right class spec's or DPS ability.

UI addons are one thing (Cosmetic addons)...performace enhancing addons are an entirely different matter (and Dps meters fall into this category).

What happens when all the players without mods can't clear a dungeon? Segregating the population based on skill isn't a good idea. A more appropriate example would be a beginner who has a guide to chess sitting next to them, it doesn't mean that they can fully comprehend the game and beat an expert player.

I fully agree. There should be an option. I do consider mods as cheating as they do make the game easier. And PVE is going to be balanced for non-mod play so mods make it easier than intended.

Looks to me like console players get the best competitive game experience (if they have no mods). Fair play and no forcing others to use mods. Just saying.

Except there will be players who don't use mods who will have extraordinary skill. The ones struggling would ask area chat for help and someone would chime in all the same. Sorting people by mod use is not equivalent to sorting people by skill.

Segregating the player base because of skill isn't a good idea. Players with extraordinary skill aren't going to want to play with beginners exclusively.

The point of an MMO experience is to play with others we might not otherwise. I would join a dating site if I wanted my personality matched to someone elses.

I know i will be using UI mod to display exact number and percentage. I also will like to use a mod to display the damage I done to the target. I would also like to use damage anolyze tools too.

However, i think they should limit on what the UI mod can read. Reading too much is cheating (like the resistance which i still havn't seen yet but the OP claim it read the targets resistance value). There should be a line on how much others can read.

I also like to suggest on checkbox / option that disallow others to read your info. That so we will know who will be a jerk straight away if he kicked you out simply because you are not sharing your detail.

There is a fine line. Bots are just more complex mods.

What if there was a script that pushing a series of buttons (say a b c d) allowed you to scan the near map, find a resource, run the character to the resource, then harvest the resource, would that be a mod or a bot?

A bot, anything that automates an action is a bot.

I doubt the game will be so difficult that it'll be impossible to clear without mods. With or without mods, there's still going to be a complete distribution of player skill, so it's not like we are truly segregating players into different skill boundaries like a ladder ranking in some competitive games. Also, have you considered that you using mods exacerbates the arms race between players and developers to the point where casuals are edged out and everyone has to use mods?

Well, my answer is "No."