Then it is up to these "great players" to find more of their own, rather than bringing tools into the game where the "lesser players" are alienated.

If you feel players are not good enough for you, then it is up to you to search for a similar type of player.....the emphasis is on you. With DPS meters & their ilk, you would put the emphasis on the lesser/ new player which is completely unfair.

Once these tools start being used, its becomes enforced use on others just so they can get a run at a dungeon etc.

You wonder why NCsoft prevented the use of addons? This is likely why.

I can respect this opinion.

So your solution to the arms race is to split the population in half and have casuals play with an increased number of casuals? I understand that if you have an intolerance of mods then it seems like a good idea, but for the long term health of the game people need to stop being so pedantic. That goes for those with mods and those without.

There are nice people who use addons, there are [censored] with no addons at all. I don't think the segregating should operate base on having addons or not.

Mod users like myself do not equate to skilled players.

Non-mod users do not equate to casuals.

No one will even notice (if they didn't already know.) We'll just have smarter shard matching.

Its stated in my post.

The easiest example to run off is WoW. Have you ever tried to get into a Raid or dungeon run at later levels in that game?

Its not so bad at lower levels for new players, but as time goes on, they start to become alienated, because of GS, DPS meters etc. Because of this alienation, they are forced to follow the same trend & using these tools.

They then begin to fall into specific class categories to get the most out of their DPS...so class variation become almost non-existant.

Then they start to act the same way to lesser players/ new players and the trend continues.

With so much available variation in even a game like WOW, players have dictated its decline & all because of addons.

When I started playing Dungeons with friends, we would figure it out as we played. We didn't "need" the best gear, best DPS or beat heals.....we just needed to play well together. Timing, covering each others failings/mistakes using class skills etc. Of course, now & again whatever we did, it was impossible & required better gear....but that is learned as you go. We had fun and used our class spec's to their best.

Once the crap started with addons, it became nothing more than meta-gaming. Hitting certain marks before even considering trying to have fun. And when we entered to have fun, we were left sitting in specific roles of what to do & what not to do which restricted gameplay & fun.

Later Blizz starts designing bosses to take into account the changes players have made to the game via addons.......and it just stopped being fun.

And you want to do the same thing with ESO?

You don't have to use mods but in all probability you won't be as good as if you played using mods. Mods were and are a sop to elitists. Mods are used to differentiate players in the game whether in appearance or performance. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. That's why reading all the 'no mods' rants are amusing. If the devs had wanted everyone to play without mods, they wouldn't have allowed mods in the first place.

Given how prominent PvP will be, yes. Not too sure about long term "health" of the game, unless you count driving away everyone who doesn't want to play/enjoy the game in a certain way a good thing. Some of us see enough numbers in real life and would rather have a more immersive experience in the ES universe. The last thing ESO should be is a grindy second job.

I quit WoW before BC. Raid at vanilla is a job. 3-6 hours on the night of raid reset is too much.

Using mods that tel you when to block and stuf would be tthe most game breaking feature you can give me. I hate wow for its hand holding and i wil NEVER use deadly boss mod or any kind of gameplay enhancer.

The whole concept of what makes a game fun is lost with these kind of mods.

Pshhhhh that was light work compared to Pre Kunark Planes raids in EQ.

I heard raid before WoW could takes up to a day.

12+ hours to fully clear and kill a plane at the beginning.

Done in shifts by multiple crews in one guild, or an alliance of guilds cooperating.

Cyrodiil will be a job. Just watch how many hours the Emperor-wannabes log in order to compete for the title.

luckily i have never wanted to be the emperor. So that 1 less job.

But you can't do it in shift for WoW raid and with the introduction or BoP items, you can't really distribute the loot fairly for participant.

This is elitism. Pure and simple. Using this logic and suggesting that the so called 1 percentile should somehow be able to seperate themselves from the "fodder" of the average player base is nothing short of flat out discrimination.

There is no good way for you to support this argument. I have seen you try to spin it in every possible direction, but in the end it's segregation. Humanity has evolved. Segregation is for the history books.

It's not a good idea in ESO because in ESO , the developers have omitted including in the default UI certain very basic features available in all MMOs due to the intention for people to be able to get these via add-ons.

What is being suggested is a blanket exclusion of all add-on users based on only the fact that they're doing the very thing that developers intended them to do. People are going to be using add-ons for all kinds of things, from something as simple as knowing whether you've actually hit a mob to hiding icons over quest-giver names for RP/immersion purposes.

Sure, you can say it's a "communication tool", but so is a button to never group with CE buyers (you know, because they're all "paying to win") or to never group with people from asia (you know, because they don't talk much).

If you meet someone and you don't like them, ignore them and don't group with them again. Their UI is none of your business unless they choose to make it such.

Not to mention that even if this ill-advised tool to avoid add-on users were to be added, it would only work for official add-ons and have no effect on the 3rd party ones, which can be even more intrusive and distruptive (hacking / botting, etc.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the spirit of what you're asking, I think a compromise solution would be to allow people the option of "disable my combat log feed to others". This would make it so that your combat data (damage, etc.) isn't fed to other people. Because frankly, your dps and your dmg are YOUR business, so i can totally understand not wanting to share that. When you start asking to control what other people do or don't with their own UI or blanket excluding people for tweaking a UI that is MEANT to be tweaked, that's bad news imo.

I find it funny how people call the players who will use DPS mods as crutches 'hardcoe'. My reasoning is thus. You have two hunters out to kill a lion. One is on foot using a bow and arrow, the other is in a Rangerover with a sniperscope on a high powered rifle. Which hunter here is the more 'hardcoe'?

Personally, yes, I'd like the option to be able to play with people who don't have the game modded. I want the clear interface of the as-intended-game and don't see why I should be forced to be at a disadvantage simply because I don't want to mod. If the populations opinion is that not have mods is akin to not wearing gear then this game may not be for me after all

The mods are for people who want them.

I for one cant play a MMO without a rolling combat text. As i definetly want to play the game with that info visible either on screen or in chatbox.

For the idea that the game would be divided by people that use mods and people does not use mods, is silly, i use mods but i dont demand other people to use them. Saying so hurts my feelings, and breaks my immersion of the world.

Anyway, i can understand people playing with like minded people, so i suggest you RP and no mods people make guilds that can house such players, and then just play with them.

Problem solved, you can send my payment to my character ingame.

THANKS

Really? Different text sizes, colours, emoticons, bold text, second post within 60 seconds for added emphasis. . . all you missed out was fireworks, cheerleaders and musical accompaniment.

Thats your point, not mine. My point is to enjoy thig game like its ment to beplayed. I personaly think that people using addons like deadly boss mod are to dumb to realise what it does to a game.

OMG. Cheerleaders. I want an add-on that brings up two hot semi-dressed cheerleaders every time i one-shot a mob and i don't even care if the OP puts me on ignore for using it.

This person gets it.

People conveniently ignore the main issue with addons such as Gearscore or DPS meters.

Those addons create an environment that alienates and segregates.

So, to be included in the game, others will be FORCED to use the same addons, to compete for places in raids/ instances.

Competing for a place in a raid/dungeon...isn't it meant to be a group activity...not a friggin competition?

Its not a matter of ignoring people who use them.

Its a simple fact that those that use them, enforce their use, which will change the game into a meta-grind, while alienating & segregating those that don't use them.

Now read that line again & don't conveniently skip over it.^^^^

Its a simple fact that those that use them, enforce their use, which will change the game into a meta-grind, while alienating & segregating those that don't use them.

Its a simple fact that those that use them, enforce their use, which will change the game into a meta-grind, while alienating & segregating those that don't use them.

I can't make it any simpler or bigger....so if you fail to comprehend this little sentence, then you are either wilfully ignorant or you just want use addons specifically for these reasons (IMO).

Glad you put that there in at the last, it is indeed just your opinion.