Again, someone ignores the meat of the argument to focus on what they want & in the way they want.

^^This is an opinion^^^.

The meat of the post was not opinion.....its proven fact.

thats also in the original client, just saying. as well as those red circles and cones are. actually the original client there is really obvious, showing you a mouse with the buttons you goota click in that situation highlighted.

Basically it's more doomsday prophesizing and blaming addons for the antics of players.

Quite frankly, if you're lagging behind the dps charts in a raid or instance without some additional factors (you're on interrupt/CC duty, you're new to the raid, you had a bad lag spike, you're sacrificing personal dps for raid dps), you deserve to be booted. I don't think people understand that raiding is a group effort and that one person who derps his rotation and enchants or is otherwise subpar can make or break a raid's efforts.

I mean, when I raid (and I still do, in Rift), we're tolerant of new players and point them towards guides, or the class officers step in to help. Hell, one of our top dps doesn't use KBM (Rift's DBM equivalent).

Then again, the people I see arguing here against dps meters seem to be the same people arguing against the Auction House and QoL changes for crafters, all for the sake of some mythical "community".

Comprehending it doesn't make it true and in my experience it's not.

I play EQ2 at the highest levels of raiding/group play. A parser has been available for the game since before WoW was ever released. DPS meters are also available. I have never once been asked to install an in-game DPS meter. While i do have a parser, i run at least 50% of the time with it turned off and have NEVER, not ONCE been asked by another player to turn it on in my 10 years of play.

Some people seem to have some kind of paranoia based out of playing WoW - a game known for having the worst players and the worst community. You've had bad experiences, it's understandable that you want to avoid them in the future. But not every game is WoW and not every game is full of WoW players.

mods are there to make the game easier for people. these same people will cry the game is too easy.

i personally hate the idea of mods are they become mandatory in many situations. want to join my raid? go download this, this, this, and this

I can tell right there that you started playing mmorpgs after 2006/2007. Am i right?

Because this Mythical community youre talking about is what every mmorpg was about before wow added deadl boss mod and the like.. Only people who played wow after the game $%^&* addons are happy to see them return and frankly i never understood how people could play wow all these years after getting so chew ready you only had to swallow.

I was around during Everquest 2 and vanilla WoW, and I remember just how the community was. Nothing really changed with the advent of LFD, even Rift was the same. The initial launch starts with a decent community, it's as the game grows older that the trolls start popping in along with the helpful players. The growth of a MMORPG community is predictable.

And everything that is predictable can be changed. I have no expirience with EQ2 so i cant comment on their addons but i did a quick research and find it much much more difficult do find mods for EQ2 then for wow.

Also this is a quote i just found b exident on the EQ2 sony forum.

Whilst I admit I am out of the loop in WoW (stopped playing towards the end of WotLK), the largest problem I found with players floundering at higher levels was the design of the game coaching players to play alone until the level cap and then enter group instances or higher with no concept of playing with others. That in itself created friction between the experienced and new as they followed the patterns they had established while playing solo.

Even so I agree gearscore was a blight, though rarely used by competent players, it was usually used by the type of guilds that spring up and then burn down within a few months (the type that are generally toxic), and pick up raids. With gear being generally easy to garner in WoW it meant almost nothing anyway, beyond the player had acquired the gear, which could usually be achieved even while being awful at the given game.

Damage meters are often misused by people looking for a sign that they are winning in a co-op environment. They are simply a tool.

Deadly boss mods is a crutch I agree, as funny as it is to see people who are used to it try and make do if it ever has issues.

The issue of class similarity is more to do with the design of the talents in that there were always good ones, awful ones and filler. Most people would come up with similar builds simply by picking talents that made sense. I agree the flow of information has also lead to people parroting builds without understanding why they are selected as such, but that's the internet, you also have people asking for builds for ESO now and the game isn't out yet.

As for people treating others like rubbish that happens everywhere, moreso on the internet. Almost everyone forgets they were new at some point, some just have little or no tolerances for other people making mistakes, or simply not knowing better, and asking is out of the question for new players because people in general are not that nice (despite Hollywood claiming otherwise) and abuse usually follows.

You also have the flip side of the coin too in that there are people who see the game as a single player experience and other people as merely well coded AI there to enhance their experience by aiding them achieve their goals.

I personally don't think I'll use any, as sparse as the information in the base UI is during combat it's easy enough to see if you are doing ok or better, and most buffs / debuffs aren't that hard to make out on the models.

Addons/Mods are fantastic in this game. It allows me, as a player, to curtail my UI to my liking placing things that best suit my playstyle or adding information for reference, such as a simple loot window as in beta I'd always use auto-loot and often never knew what I just looted.

I've found too that when I get burned out heavily in a game, I'll switch to messing around with my UI just for fun instead of cancelling my subscription. It breathes new life into a game sometimes and I'll want to play again thinking 'oh I can't wait to use that new addon that makes my player frame look so cool'.

Being able to see what your target's resistances, skill usage, status effect timers, and if you can interupt the skill they are using is simply disgusting.

Arenanet (GW2) had the right idea when they alllowed 0 support for modding the UI because "It creates an unfair advantage between those that have and those that have not"

Leave that crap in WoW. You are really going to enjoy fighting people with auto-pots, auto buff refresh, instant cleanse when they get stunned, etc. It's going to be a sickining automated crap fest, it already is.

Listen, you elitist swine, if you're the sort of guy that's going to cheat in order to gain an advantage by knowing which items you've actually looted, then i want NOTHING to do with you. Next thing we know, you'll expect ME to know what i've looted too and then it'll be CHAOS! I think we're better off just banning people like you.

/sarcasm off.

Oh [censored], even though you are being sarcasitc, I really do hope Loot info is not included in the API at all! The one thing hate more than elitist are loot entitle jerks.

It might be so that the game itself offers visual cues when an opponent is using a certain ability, but it doesn't tell you when it's going to hit. The casting bars these mods include do offer that information. This is a significant advantage because you can see the exact moment you should block/interrupt/dodge. That might mean that you can get an extra attack in before taking the required action. Without a cast bar, you would have to guess if you can risk it. Even if you are some kind of genius who has memorised the exact cast time for every ability in the game, you still have to make an estimation of the passage of time. Someone who makes use of those mods does not. The same could be said for buff/debuff timers, although those don't have quite as much impact as interruption/evasion do.

Not so. The above (cast bars) are one example of information "normal" players do not get to see, the buff/debuff timers another, and then there's the resistances/armour values you can't see at all (which you would, again, have to guess at without mods, and then only after having used both magical and normal attacks on an enemy and comparing the chunks of the health bar lost). And possibly the health values themselves, too.

I do not care for an option to avoid grouping with players who use mods. Heck, I would definitely use some mods to change the UI itself (like a proper chat window, for instance). And I also like combat logs to see how much damage I dealt/received and what abilities hit me (not before they hit me). But mods should not be able to use data that provides a gameplay advantage. Especially not in PvP, which is purely competitive. And it IS cheating.

What they really should do is just add some (optional) basic information in a combat log to the unmodded game and block all mods that use combat information in Cyrodiil and be done with it. I have no faith that this will happen, but it would be better for the game if it did...