Part I: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1490400-mods-arent-optional-and-dps-meter-is-real-get-in-here/

I knew that you'd need mods for PvP, but this to me seems like you can no-skill it since a mod can tell you when to avoid, block, and interrupt.

With this one mod: http://youtu.be/_BFbBMW2ZGM you can see: individual raw damage, crit damage, target HP, XP gained, targets buffs/debuffs, CC timers/stun timers, targets resistance, CD timers, what skill target is using and whether that skill can be interrupted - AKA you can see everything under the sun with mods.

I'm not going to be dramatic (exception being thread title ) and say "WOW CLONE GAME SUX" or "NOSKILL GAME NOT PLAYING!" However, I want to know if a compromise can be reached. Mods/addons are NOT cheating, but some players want to watch action and not the numbers without the fear of being the weak link.

In the name of the people, I plea to the developers to create a check box option similar to the "RP" option that allows players to be grouped with other non-mod users. This way hardcoe players can still measure their damage to the decimal, and purist players can keep their naked UI without the worry of hindering their group.

REMEMBER:

This is NOT about whether mods are cheating or not; mods aren't cheating.

This IS about whether having a check box that groups other non-mod users is a good idea.

Some people want this feature; that's okay.

Some people don't want this feature; that's okay.

Be respectful either way.

Go.

There is no fundamental difference between players with mods and those without. There is no comparison between RPers and Mods. Just tick roleplay and roleplay a character who isn't burdened by mods?

How ain't they optional, exactly?

It's an exaggeration of the idea that if mods tell you what to do/where to stand and a group member doesn't have it (and is messing up) they need to be kicked.

I completely disagree. If I have full mods and you don't I will be able to read/block/interrupt/dodge your every move in 1v1. I do appreciate your input though.

Same way upgrading your gear isn't really optional.

I mean, you *can* choose not to do it, but then you've handicapped yourself relative to everyone who does do it. Which tends to eliminate grouping options and pvp competitiveness...

With adequate skill someone without mods can read/block/interrupt/dodge just as much as someone with mods. Mods make it easier but it doesn't magically make someone a god.

Dps mods are inevitable. Healing mods too. After all, mmos are giant spreadsheets (or mathematical models if you prefer) with moving picture overlays.

Cyrodiil is going to be bad enough with one large guild dominating in each server slice (I seriously doubt that ZOS will match up larger guilds against one another). If you get lucky and only have to faceoff against a single player, mods will give you an edge or at least level the field a bit. The wise thing to do would be to use mods or be cannon fodder.

I completely agree with this.

Since there is no fundamental difference, segregating the community based on their skill levels is not a good idea.

I disagree with this. There is a fundamental difference in my opinion.

What is the fundamental difference if you agree that someone without mods can, with skill, Read/Block/Interrupt/Dodge just as well as someone with mods?

But if you had two people of equal skill, the one with mods indicating all damage info and timing prompts would surely be at an advantage? Unless you're at the top of your game and execute everything perfectly, you're bound to slip up. That's when someone with a mod gains an advantage.

This is the fundamental difference as we aren't talking about average skill, but the skill that 1% of players will achieve that allows them to see numbers/queues floating in the air without mods.

Segregating the playerbase based on skill isn't a good thing, essentially you want people to choose beginner or expert difficulties

Skill compensates for mods, mods don't do anything a player can't already

It's not about segregating as we're all still playing the same game together; however, shards will group players more intelligently similar to how it groups RPers.

So the core of the issue is that you want people to choose a difficulty level when they enter the game? The opposite to being kicked from a group for having low dps is that more skilled players also have the capacity to help beginners. It benefits beginners to play with experts.

CKW was talking about two people with equal skill.

Whether they are equal or not is beside the point, mods are an advantage and that has already been established. Skill compensates for mods.

There will be super skilled players playing without mods, and there will be outstandingly skilled players playing with a dozen mods. It does benefit beginners to play with experts and they will still have those experts to play with.

The whole point of this thread is that you want people to opt out of playing with people who have mods?

Mods can be compensated for with skill.

Therefore you want people to opt out of playing with others who have a higher ability then their own for fear of being kicked?

None of the mods tell you to do anything, or to react to anything, though? None of them. At all. See below.

I've played with every single mod this game has yet to produce and none of them are game breaking to the point of people needing them to stay competitive. This is just going to turn into one of those things that people use as an excuse in the end, I already see it happening.

Seriously?

Guess you've never heard of bots.

Your point is beside CKW's point (lol) as he/she just proved, using your statement that mods are an established advantage, two players with the same amount of skill will result with the mod-user winning. The only exception being if both players are playing with AI precision.