Well, that's just plain maschism Seriously, they fix so many bugs it isn't even funny. There was some drama about a Skyrim fix^*, but using the TES patches is pretty much required and expected. Fallout patches didn't have quite that dedicated teams, but they are awesome too.

*

I think the opposite is happening actually, if this is a race then consoles are getting lapped by PCs. PCs are so easily upgradeable compared to a console it isn't fair. When oculus type stuff releases game over man, game over.

Lapped? I've still yet to see anything on the PC that's made me want to spend the time or money upgrading constantly

Yes I would never be sadistic enough to play Skyrim without the unofficial patches. The necromage perk is indeed a hug and I care not they fixed it it's the respawn bug and the weapons not cleaning up that bother me. Hopefully they find a way to fix those wretched ash piles. For me they are a must.

I don't use too many mods anyway, but consoles will definitely have a tough time with many of the mods being created in the foreseeable future, especially big texture mods, HD mods, overhauls, stuff like that. Other things should be fine.

I'll be playing on PS4 for a little while until I create my ultimate gaming rig, but until then I'll be happy with the vanilla release.

Consoles have always been about two or three laps behind by comparison to the sheer power capable on the PC platform. The most impressive thing about consoles is how well developers can optimize games for them, especially the PS3. The Last of Us was a beautiful title for a console already five or six years old. As far as Oculus Rift, that is such a huge gimmick. Nobody is going to buy that crap lol. But I said it here, archive this page, and send me a message if I'm wrong.

Yeah, that Necromage thing sounds pretty bad. Guess I'm lucky that I haven't played a pure caster, or a vampire. But the other things you mention.... don't sound familiar. Must not have noticed.

...just went to the Nexus page for the Skyrim patch. The full changelog isn't easy to browse, but I did look at the "Mods made obsolete by USKP" list..... and I swear, none of those things sound familiar. /confused Maybe I didn't play enough? Only a couple hundred hours+, probably.

Not sure which version the respawn bug was addressed in the USKP I know it was fixed as I have tested extensively on the matter, blackpete then found the issue using the creation kit. The respawn bug you have to know where creatures spawn and you have to know what spawns where. I first noticed it when I walked around and the game world felt dead with hardly no encounters and the plant life was gone in several areas. I noticed if because I thought Skyrim improved upon Oblivions dead uneventful vanilla world.

The ash pile bug had not been addressed by the USKP the reverted their fixes to to a stack dump or something to that effect but yes areas where you have random location based encounters like the aspiring mage or old orc will never clean up from the world. Also static locations like he ritual stone the ash piles will remain forever.

The bug was that it amplified all magic effects. Spells, enchantments, blessings, pretty much everything that appeared in the active effects list.

And yes, many of those bugs are easy to miss when they happen, still, better to have them fixed.

I don't think a lot of console users are expecting say: falskaar level mods or anything like that. Most of them seem excited for things like new weapons/armor maybe couple of gameplay changes, and maybe "aesthetic" mods (i.e making their characters look prettier/like pinups) stuff like that. At least from what I've seen.

edit: I do hope unofficial patches make it on consoles tho.

I agree anything bug oriented should be fixed and patched out.

At this point, most of the patch's updates are for minor errors like bad dialog conditions or typos. But they've done a lot to fix quest issues (freaking Blood on the Ice), script issues (everything buggy with Hearthfire), and tons of severe issues. The consoles deserve that just as much as PCs.

I'm actually hoping mods like Falskaar can make it on consoles. Velicky designed Falskaar to be as much like an official DLC as possible; it's easy to install, and it has no requirements other than the base game itself. The only issue I see with a mod like that on consoles is memory. How many mods like that can you load on top of a game before it becomes untenable? Even PCs have that limit, although generally the game engine itself will hit it's limit before a higher end PC does.

As far as the USKP goes they are going to start fixing things that was not possible before after the unification is complete and USLEEP launches.

Right, I've only read the first page and I don't know how to multiquote properly (might be a limitation of my tablet browser), but I feel the need to respond to a couple of Redguard King's points even if they've already been addressed on Page 2 or 3.

Size limitations, download speeds and whiney gamers. Size and download speed us simply a non-issue. No point even bringing it up, I know for a fact that every single one of my friends on the Xbox One have bought External Hard Drives. Personally, I have a 5TB External HDD which I saw as a necessary purchase before I even got the console itself. You're obviously stereotyping console gamers as ignorant or stupid there, but I can assure you, the ones you hear whining are a vocal, immature minority. We take our hardware and resources as seriously as PC gamers, it's just that most console gamers either don't have the money, or don't have the time/motivation to build a usable gaming PC. Most of my friends had gaming PCs, but couldn't be bothered maintaining and upgrading them, so they just got a console instead.

And yes, some gamers whine. They can be console gamers or PC gamers. If someone is too stupid to "figure out" how to install/use mods and/or ignorant of the potential risks, then they get what they deserve. This is not a PC/Consoles split, it is a competency/ineptitude divide and it spans the whole human race.

The other point I take issue with is (and I'm slightly paraphrasing) "Consoles have always been stripped down PCs".

...

Right. That is definitely something I have to stand against. Console architecture has most definitely akin to PCs for the last 3 generations (including the current one), but prior to this, the differences were far more stark and consoles were very specialised hardware systems. Consoles were very much in their own market, with their own games and their own audience and crossover with PC titles/ports has been a very slow progression since the mid 90s to where we are today.

I think what bothers me more is the subtext of the statement. Sure, the "always" bothers me, but it's the implication that PCs have (by logical process) "always been superior to consoles". That's a very ugly concept and one that ignores the sheer amount of games and gameplay features that wouldn't exist if it were not for the "peasant consoles", not to mention the possibility that 1983 could've caused a lot more long lasting harm if it weren't for "inferior consoles" reviving the entire gaming industry.

But yeah, inferred PC superiority is comparatively rare on these forums. Some who hold such beliefs choose to do so in a "cold hard logic" kind of way. Others choose to be arrogant about it and they usually get banned at some point.

Any kind of inference of "irrefutable superiority" seems like the same kind of belligerent and thoroughly obnoxious hubris that the Nazis oozed out of every orifice. Intolerance is intolerance, no matter how you rationalise it. And yes, using the Nazis as an anology is actually, for once, appropriate.

Anyway, I'll read the rest of the thread now.

Edit : "This thread was created with the purpose of cautioning console gamers and bringing awareness to what will likely be possible and what will be prohibited. There are a multitude of barriers and obstacles that are going to have to be overcome to make modding even halfway decent on consoles. There are a lot of parties involved and we'll have to see exactly what kind of foundation BGS and Microsoft puts in place for mods on consoles."

I'm 50% inclined to say that I appreciate the sentiment if your intent is right, and 50% inclined to say that, that's great and all, but really how stupid do you think console gamers are? I don't believe anyone I know thinks console mods will be as free and available as they're advertising them to be, so it seems like your statement is aimed at immature gamers or [censored], and comes across as inherently patronising to everyone else.

Suffice to say, most console gamers already know that it won't be a 1:1 ratio equivalent to all PC mods.

In terms of a larger argument applied to everyone in this thread, I've stated before about how I feel about "six scenes" in games and how I feel about nudity when out of context, but I'd also like to state that I'm really quite tired of Microsoft's quite occasionally hypocritical policies on nudity. Allowing The Witcher 3 or any other multi-million dollar franchise, but probably denying modders. Advertising stuff like Game of Thrones on the Xbox One, but then pretending to be that bastion of "American Home Values". It really irritates after a while and I, for one, wish they'd just drop the act. They're not Nintendo, they don't have a "family image" to uphold and plenty of porm passes through Internet Explorers across the entire world every single day. Vetting out explicit content based on the misguided belief of upholding some kind of negotiable (for the right price) moral authority is pathetic. Thank goodness I live in Europe, but I can smell that bullcrap from here.

@Jusey1 : Yep, you get Fallout 3 GOTY if you preorder on Xbox One. I've preordered mine already. No idea how the backwards compatibility shenanigans will work out yet. Rare Replay has been running into a few difficulties with the Xbox 360 backwards compatible titles in the collection, so we're hoping for more updates soon.

No one really said they would be replicated on consoles. Bethesda hasn't even went into detail yet. Just be glad we get what we get and Bethesda and ms are doing this at all.

That would be awesome for Skyrim, if it can work for b/c from X360 games. My main need for any game of Bethesda is the Unofficial Patch as THAT would be Godsend. Seems every time I look at uesp and see Unofficial Patch in the notes, I cringe just because I think it would cure several issues I have with Skyrim. FO3, FONV, and Oblivion I did not have much issues, but that last 2 patches for Skyrim made the game difficult with lag/freezes (I think those two are tied to random encounters not spawning and forgetting to pick-up weapons from dead foes, respectively) and certain quests not physically changing as it should (i.e. the Gildergreen (or w/e it's called) tree in Whiterun when planting the sappling is covered by the old tree).

*For those who say get a PC, for me 95% of gaming of my entire life [going back to Atari 2600 when I was around pre-K] it's hard to adapt to playing games on the computer, especially playing when my experience is Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Gameboy (original), Gamecast, Xbox, and currently X360. I've tried KOTOR2 once on the PC, but that took 3 days to get the damn game going w/ the mod that allowed cut content to show up just because my PC had advanced drivers and Window for the requirement. Never again. Curious how mods will work efficiently for the X1 (and PS4 as well).

I believe the poster was suggesting most console gamers have never used a mod before. You obviously would not be "most" in this case. Before there were mod managers, modding was an absolute hassle. It's not hard, just tedious. If modding is to work on consoles, not only for the benefit of console gamers, but for compatibility, there needs to be some sort of mod managing program. Otherwise, mods will break other mods and consoles will have the current issues that are plaguing mods in TW3.

This I have to disagree with profusely. First person games are always better on PC as mouse and keyboard are more precise than a controller. Not only that, but obviously better visuals and the nature of modding give BGS games unlimited hours of fun. On consoles you get a limited experience with wonky controls. Mods coming to console will somewhat correct that, but I'm expecting more in the way of cosmetic mods rather than actual content.

ENB and SKSE will not work because they are 3rd party programs. Not to mention, those kinds of mods would kill performance on consoles, which Microsoft isn't going to allow.

Real-time cart riding? How about you let me drive the cart instead?

It's ironic because the unofficial patch mod for Skyrim actually broke my game. I would kill dragons and I could never absorb their souls (their bodies would just sit there). I had to take it off just to get my game to work...

Yikes. That's all I can say to this. I have never in my years seen someone make so many assumptions and build more inferences upon inferences than you. Take that as you will. The simple truth is most console gamers have no experience with mods. It's important to note early on that some of the best mods gamers always talk about will just not be available on consoles. That's not to say that this will not change at some point in time (in future consoles), but it's unlikely due to the open platform nature of the PC and closed platform nature of consoles. The rest of your post is just a console vs pc rant and all sorts of other topics not germane to the thread.

You don't need to say it for people to assume it. Todd Howard went onto the Xbox stage at E3 saying "mods are coming to Xbox One." That leaves the door wide open for all sorts of conclusions. As many console gamers have never had mods, they will likely not know to what degree mods will be available on the platform. As I said above, some of the best mods gamers always talk about will never work on consoles. Modding by its very purpose is more of a PC tool, thus it will be limited on consoles. However, the more mods that are available on consoles will ultimately be better for modding going forward.

The unofficial patch mod would only work if the bugs are on all platforms. Many bugs in Skyrim were different on the varying platforms. As the unofficial patch team is always going to be PC-centric, I doubt it will benefit console gamers that much. This is why console commands are great because once I went into a fortress I shouldn't have and killed an NPC I needed a few days later for the Companions. Instead of waiting 30 days for all the NPCs to respawn, which is what you'd have to do on the console version, I just spawned the NPC and kill her so I could get the item I needed.

I was born a console gamer. I started off with a Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis. I also have every gameboy up to the original DS, N64, PSX, PS2, GameCube, Xbox, Xbox 360, and an Xbox One. PC is by far the best platform if you have the money and the interest. Better graphics and mods are two major reasons to make the jump. You also don't have to worry about lack of backwards compatibility (like with consoles). That's not to say old games like KotOR 2 may not work at first, but there are plenty of guides and videos how to get older games to run on newer operating systems.

Getting games to work on PC can be a hassle at times. There's no doubt about that. Consoles are easy as you just have to slip the disc in. However, when the game finally does work on PC, what you can do is unlimited unlike a console. I think the reward far outweighs the hardship.

I think it's mostly due to the unpleasant nature of fanboyism and the size of my post. I understand you can't be bothered to respond properly but I didn't post entirely for your benefit anyway. Alleging that it was mostly, if not entirely, assumptions and inferences; A : Is a fairly blunt statement that ignores the prevalence of unsavoury attitudes emanating from certain social circles, B : Does nothing to clarify your stance or any underlying bias therein, and C : Does not appreciate the merits or reasoning of the argument itself, essentially giving tacit approval to such vile partisanism.

As for it being a rant, that word gets bandied around a lot, often inappropriately. Things not being relevant is mostly subjective. No one subject exists in a vacuum and so as the argument expands outwards, it naturally encompasses more than the incredibly narrow boundaries of any one specific subject. Put simply, it is not a binary issue.

If you wish to respond to any of the actual points I made, feel free to do so and cite me in some form as a reference point. Suffice to say, the tone of the discussion is set by your responses.

Thing of it is there are well enough bugs going on in all platforms where, I admit the hardest part, what is a universal bug vs a system bug. I think there a few out there who is willingly to differentiate those areas enough. As I mentioned before, I think, uesp does good enough job showing that. And I am pretty sure fallout wikia is the same as I recall from their notes.

As long the bugs is on all systems, then the unofficial patch ought to cure them. However, the ones that are system specific, that ought to be for themselves. I think there are some dedicated individuals who are willingly to go that far, thus not too worried that PC gets all the fixes, sort of speak (and those individuals better have a paypal or they are too generous).

As for modding in general, I know PCs hold the most opportunities for that area. You have to realize that not everyone on here have programming skills. For me, my background is too elementary (Visual Basic and C), thus the three days of hell of getting a game like KOTOR II to work on my PC, and I know I am not alone on this part.

I have high praises to those who understand programming language where either it was dedication or better teachings on that end. Just realize not all have the knowledge to truly know what they are doing (a la me) where going to a site has the list there, for some reason I missed a step and nothing is working. Back to square one again.

Sorry, I do not mean to be an ass towards you as I know you are contributing... it's frustrating on my end where a line or step on a PC creates havoc enough where I just prefer the game consoles.

Speaking about unofficial patches, I hope we won't have multiple unofficial patch projects for the same platform like we did in FNV (and I think FO3 as well), because it becomes a huge mess with some projects fixing certain bugs while others don't and vice versa, there will be bug fix overlaps, thus there will be conflicts between these projects. Not to mention that as a mod author it can be a headache to assure your mod works with multiple unofficial patches.

I wouldn't expect this to be the case, I'm just fascinated to see how it all plays out in the end. There will be a level of expectancy amongst some of those playing on consoles when it comes to mods.

In FNV there was only one true unofficial patch in the game and that was Yukichigais YUP. The rest were pretended lol. He made the best one.

Pretty much. Mission Mojave included a ton of changes that they considered "design" flaws, but had nothing to do with actual bugs. Not to mention they suddenly and without warning required every DLC. The Unofficial Skyrim Patch team asked the forums first, and ultimately decided on keeping the DLC patches separate so that you weren't screwed out of base-game fixes for not having the DLC; although they will eventually consolidate them all into one Legendary patch.

I definitely understand your frustration. PCs aren't exactly user friendly at first. However, the learning curve isn't nearly as steep as some believe. It's a lot easier to mod games and fix compatibility issues on PC today than it was a decade ago. Tools and equipment have been streamlined so that you don't have to necessarily be a computer science expert to improve your game. Yes, it's not as easy as putting a disc in and seeing the game work. Consoles will always be better for convenience. However, you can do so much more with a PC that the pure limitless possibilities far outweigh the convenience of a console for me.