Mods for consols : V - Skyrim

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:50 pm

Oh I'm sure quality would be a factor as well, but I still think that hosting/uploading fees would take their toll.

I also don't see MS/Sony letting just anyone host the console mods. They'd probably would want to be (maybe even have to be) the ones to do it. And while it may not seem like a lot, I can be that (at least) MS would want to get as much as possible out of it.

Well, DarkOne isn't exactly 'anyone'. I honestly think that would be the most likely thing to do. Again, if he hosted, there wouldn't be 'hosting/uploading fees'. Right?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:43 am

As for open cities, I would consider this a graphical overhaul in a way. You are drastically changing how the game works by placing the city in the same worldspace, as opossed to it being separated. So no, this wouldn't work.

Unique landscapes would simply have to be optimized, which is a matter of mod quality, as they should be optimized as much as possible reguardless.

And better cities. What exactly do you mean by this? Unless used in conjuction with an 'open cities' type mod, I don't see how something that simply improves cities could suddenly make them require so much more power.

I think he means the one with more people and stuff in it.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:08 am

As for open cities, I would consider this a graphical overhaul in a way. You are drastically changing how the game works by placing the city in the same worldspace, as opossed to it being separated. So no, this wouldn't work.

Unique landscapes would simply have to be optimized, which is a matter of mod quality, as they should be optimized as much as possible reguardless.

And better cities. What exactly do you mean by this? Unless used in conjuction with an 'open cities' type mod, I don't see how something that simply improves cities could suddenly make them require so much more power.

Then you haven't played better cities. It doesn't just "simply improve cities," it adds tons of new content to the cities, although I think that new content is all from resources that are already in the game. It brought my old computer that could play Oblivion at a pretty solid 50fps down to 15-20 in the IC market district. You have to consider both the CPU power and the graphical processing power. Anything that adds a lot of objects, NPCs, items, or scripts in a cell will have a huge toll on the processor, which in TES games is as limiting of a factor as graphics.

For example: Market district http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/16513-1-1234475226.jpg and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/16513-1-1234475253.jpg. Arboretum http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/16513-1-1234475634.jpg and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/16513-1-1234475657.jpg.

Same goes for unique landscapes. This http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/19370-5-1219513858.jpg will bring even some really powerful computers to their knees. You could "optimize" these mods by removing a significant amount of the content they add, but I really doubt the mod creators would appreciate that. Many mods are made with the assumption that people with high end machines will be using them.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:39 am

Well, DarkOne isn't exactly 'anyone'. I honestly think that would be the most likely thing to do. Again, if he hosted, there wouldn't be 'hosting/uploading fees'. Right?

I'm not sure. I don't know how the transfer system would work on the consoles. I would imagine it'd have to go "through" Xbox Live, wouldn't it? To get to your system?

But I doubt MS would let people have this for free.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:09 am

I'm not sure. I don't know how the transfer system would work on the consoles.

But I doubt MS would let people have this for free.

Well, I dunno. Both sides of this discussion are pretty much arguing that 'I don't think.. bla bla bla'. So this can't go anywhere.

The point is I really hope they find a way to do this that's free for console players and enjoyable for everyone.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:33 am

As for open cities, I would consider this a graphical overhaul in a way. You are drastically changing how the game works by placing the city in the same worldspace, as opossed to it being separated. So no, this wouldn't work.

Unique landscapes would simply have to be optimized, which is a matter of mod quality, as they should be optimized as much as possible reguardless.

And better cities. What exactly do you mean by this? Unless used in conjuction with an 'open cities' type mod, I don't see how something that simply improves cities could suddenly make them require so much more power.

The issue with Better Cities and Unique landscapes is the shear number of objects the place on the screen that the system has to track and render at a time. Optimize it all you want, but the volume of objects is still likely over the top for the consoles to handle.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:44 pm

Well, I dunno. Both sides of this discussion are pretty much arguing that 'I don't think.. bla bla bla'. So this can't go anywhere.

The point is I really hope they find a way to do this that's free for console players and enjoyable for everyone.

I hope so too

Like I said on the other page, if I could I'd buy a powerful gaming rig for every TES fan so we all can share one majorly awesome experience, mods included.

I just wanted to express my opinions of doubt that M$ would ever allow this for free. Unless there was a way it could be added to the game without downloading directly from the 360. Perhaps the mod could be put on a disc or flash drive? Not really sure what can/can't be loaded on consoles.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:36 am

Then you haven't played better cities. It doesn't just "simply improve cities," it adds tons of new content to the cities, although I think that new content is all from resources that are already in the game. It brought my old computer that could play Oblivion at a pretty solid 50fps down to 15-20 in the IC market district. You have to consider both the CPU power and the graphical processing power. Anything that adds a lot of objects, NPCs, items, or scripts in a cell will have a huge toll on the processor, which in TES games is as limiting of a factor as graphics.

For example: Market district http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/16513-1-1234475226.jpg and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/16513-1-1234475253.jpg. Arboretum http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/16513-1-1234475634.jpg and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/16513-1-1234475657.jpg.

Same goes for unique landscapes. This http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/19370-5-1219513858.jpg will bring even some really powerful computers to their knees. You could "optimize" these mods by removing a significant amount of the content they add, but I really doubt the mod creators would appreciate that. Many mods are made with the assumption that people with high end machines will be using them.

Excellent examples deathcoffee. Great post, appreciate the details. :goodjob:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:02 am

How about making a listing of all the things that consoles could handle and go from there?
For starters, new weapons, armor, etc. that are mainly for the player character and won't cause the system to implode.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:17 pm

Then you haven't played better cities. It doesn't just "simply improve cities," it adds tons of new content to the cities, although I think that new content is all from resources that are already in the game. It brought my old computer that could play Oblivion at a pretty solid 50fps down to 15-20 in the IC market district. You have to consider both the CPU power and the graphical processing power. Anything that adds a lot of objects, NPCs, items, or scripts in a cell will have a huge toll on the processor, which in TES games is as limiting of a factor as graphics.

For example: Market district http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/16513-1-1234475226.jpg and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/16513-1-1234475253.jpg. Arboretum http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/16513-1-1234475634.jpg and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/16513-1-1234475657.jpg.

Same goes for unique landscapes. This http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/19370-5-1219513858.jpg will bring even some really powerful computers to their knees. You could "optimize" these mods by removing a significant amount of the content they add, but I really doubt the mod creators would appreciate that. Many mods are made with the assumption that people with high end machines will be using them.

Again, I would call that a drastic graphical change, thus going into the 'not going to work' catagory that I established earlier when I said 'no drastic graphic's mods'.

It changes the appearance of the entire town, so, yeah.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:14 am

How about making a listing of all the things that consoles could handle and go from there?
For starters, new weapons, armor, etc. that are mainly for the player character and won't cause the system to implode.

The biggest thing is that there would need to be a better mod management system. If those weapons and armor are added into leveled lists you run into compatibility problems that require either mod load order adjustments or tools that can merge leveled lists. Unless Beth reveals some kind of overhaul to the way that mods are handled, you'd often need third party executables to make many mods cooperate. This is something that has basically zero chance of either MS or Sony allowing, as allowing third party executables opens the door for backup loaders and other software that violates their TOS. Although I think tools could be made PC that set the load order and generate a bashed patch, and then the mods can be transferred to the console.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:46 am

The biggest thing is that there would need to be a better mod management system. If those weapons and armor are added into leveled lists you run into compatibility problems that require either mod load order adjustments or tools that can merge leveled lists. Unless Beth reveals some kind of overhaul to the way that mods are handled, you'd often need third party executables to make many mods cooperate. This is something that has basically zero chance of either MS or Sony allowing, as allowing third party executables opens the door for backup loaders and other software that violates their TOS. Although I think tools could be made PC that set the load order and generate a bashed patch, and then the mods can be transferred to the console.

If they do with what I have been hypothesizing and only pick a few top mods a month, then they would most likely obviously make sure that these mods do not conflict. They would probably only like 3 total of the top mods that alter leveled lists, and choose between one of the three. (i.e. FWE, FOOK, or ART) You are assuming that they would blindly pick a bunch of good mods. The testers that they would hopefully have, would figure all this out. Then possibly ask the mod authors to work out a version that is compatable, before pushing it through to consoles.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:09 pm

If they do with what I have been hypothesizing and only pick a few top mods a month, then they would most likely obviously make sure that these mods do not conflict. They would probably only like 3 total of the top mods that alter leveled lists, and choose between one of the three. (i.e. FWE, FOOK, or ART) You are assuming that they would blindly pick a bunch of good mods. The testers that they would hopefully have, would figure all this out. Then possibly ask the mod authors to work out a version that is compatable, before pushing it through to consoles.

No I'm assuming that they would try to allow console users to pick whatever mods that they want. Your hypothesis is probably much more likely, but really isn't the ideal way of giving mods to console players. A system of choosing a few mods to let console players use is certainly feasible and a really good thing that consoles should get, but it would be a mere taste of the thousands of mods out there.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:14 pm

A system of choosing a few mods to let console players use is certainly feasible and a really good thing that consoles should get, but it would be a mere taste of the thousands of mods out there.

Thats why I say they should wait until next gen. Gives time for hardware to advance in the next consoles, and gives time for MS/Sony and Beth to figure out how all this is going to work.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:57 pm

Ok, if the logistics of porting mods to console from PC are such a nightmare, why the heck would Todd Howard say anything regarding mods for consoles? It seems counterproductive to me, unless it's just a flat out lie to get more console sales. I'm assuming that's not the case, so..... thoughts anyone?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:51 pm

Ok, if the logistics of porting mods to console from PC are such a nightmare, why the heck would Todd Howard say anything regarding mods for consoles? It seems counterproductive
to me, unless it's just a flat out lie to get more console sales. I'm assuming that's not the case, so..... thoughts anyone?

I think it's a bit of both. I bet they really want to do it, but know it won't be any time soon, but they go ahead and mention it for hype.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

Thats why I say they should wait until next gen. Gives time for hardware to advance in the next consoles, and gives time for MS/Sony and Beth to figure out how all this is going to work.

A+ post would read again.

The current gen just wasn't designed with the philosophy that people would be able to add user-created content to games. Maybe the next gen will have some rudimentary filesystem access, hard drives on every unit, better content distribution systems, and hardware that can handle resource intensive content.

Ok, if the logistics of porting mods to console from PC are such a nightmare, why the heck would Todd Howard say anything regarding mods for consoles? It seems counterproductive to me, unless it's just a flat out lie to get more console sales. I'm assuming that's not the case, so..... thoughts anyone?

It's not really about the difficulty of porting mods to consoles (other than the mods that simply wouldn't work which have been discussed), it's more about the difficulty of getting mods to work well together in general. It's hard enough on PCs to worry about load orders and bashed patches, but there would be another level of difficulty in that the downloading, load order, patches, etc would all have to happen on PC, then be transferred to console. The only feasible system I see right now is for Beth to choose a small list of mods to distribute to consoles.

If Beth really believes that the included plugin activation tool is enough, they really haven't been paying attention to the modding community.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:26 am

Thats why I say they should wait until next gen. Gives time for hardware to advance in the next consoles, and gives time for MS/Sony and Beth to figure out how all this is going to work.

So, mods for Skyrim when PS4 arrives? If that's the case then how about Morrowwind with mods for the current gen? Just to get the ball rolling.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:34 am

So, mods for Skyrim when PS4 arrives? If that's the case then how about Morrowwind with mods for the current gen?

I imagine it will take a while for Sony/MS and Beth to work everything out, if they even agree to go through with it. And I'd doubt they'd do it with Morrowind, as old as it is.

Nah I think he was saying mods for TES 6

Yup.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:29 am

So, mods for Skyrim when PS4 arrives? If that's the case then how about Morrowwind with mods for the current gen?

Nah I think he was saying mods for TES 6

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:43 pm

Has there been a mod to enhance horror aspects of Oblivion? The undead/demon creatures weren't particularly scary/threatening.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:31 am

Has there been a mod to enhance horror aspects of Oblivion? The undead/demon creatures weren't particularly scary/threatening.

To enhance horror? I don't know. Horror questmods? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGdAFEgyY-c.

A+ post would read again.

The current gen just wasn't designed with the philosophy that people would be able to add user-created content to games. Maybe the next gen will have some rudimentary filesystem access, hard drives on every unit, better content distribution systems, and hardware that can handle resource intensive content.

So you say consoles may turn EVEN MORE like a PC, then? I don't know....erhmmm...what about getting directly a PC? At least that way you'd have an open hardware platform that you can http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntg5nKjF9nA, and not an encased, closed (and so, limited) one.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:45 am

is it possible yes will Sony and Microsoft agree no this disappoints me because i play on my xbox because my pc can barley run OB on min settings all the consels need to do is review the content and put a rating on it i know xbox has parental controls so parents can control what there kids download im sure ps3 has the same thing

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:41 pm

To enhance horror? I don't know. Horror questmods? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGdAFEgyY-c.

So you say consoles may turn EVEN MORE like a PC, then? I don't know....erhmmm...what about getting directly a PC? At least that way you'd have an open hardware platform that you can http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntg5nKjF9nA, and not an encased, closed (and so, limited) one.

Ummm I am a PC gamer. I'm just saying that if Beth wants to implement a modding system for consoles they should wait for consoles that are better suited for user created content.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:51 pm

Ummm I am a PC gamer. I'm just saying that if Beth wants to implement a modding system for consoles they should wait for consoles that are better suited for user created content.

I'm very inclined to agree. I see no reason to implement them now when you'd be limited in the kind of mods you can use. If we wait (assuming MS/Sony agrees to the implementation of mods), there will be better hardware to work with, as well as the companies having time to develop a mod distribution system that works well.