[relz] mods by kuertee (thread 5) : IV

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:31 pm

previous thread: http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1028563

details of changes (if any are of note) will always be in the 2nd post - the one below this.
orange: new or updated since the last time i edited this post.
? and bold: affects combat in one way or another - i.e. a combat mod.

BETA / WIP mods
(the major features of these mods are known to be working.
but they are in beta, so please save your game in a safe slot before using.)

Actor behaviour mods

?NPCs yield (beta 0.65, 3 January 2010) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22392
Applies these behaviors to actors: Creatures flee, Fight or fly, NPCs yield. Supports Vows and Covenants' Demand Surrender game-play.
Horse commands v4 (4.8, 3 January 2010) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8766
Horse commands, Horse speed equals player speed, Own stolen horses over time, Simple saddlebags
Wandering encounters (beta 0.53, 29 November 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25449
NPCs spawned in the wilds may decide travel to one of the cities.
Clothing matters (beta 0.58, 3 November 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22653
What the player wears may affect the Disposition of NPCs they interact with. Some apparel are illegal and will draw the attention of guards when within cities. Wear the distinctive uniforms of guards and join their ranks (i.e. faction) temporarily.
Crime has witnesses (beta 0.53, 22 May 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22894
The player can remove Bounties for crimes by either: 1. killing the witnesses or 2. coercing (Disposition 100) the witnesses to not report the crime.
Looting dead guards is stealing (beta 0.54, 14 March 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21784
The distinctive armour and weapons of guards are set as being stolen when taken from a dead guard. Wearing guard armour in cities the guard armour originates from will make the guards in those cities suspicious of the player. Eventually, the player will be arrested for impersonating a guard.
?No looting during combat (beta 0.51, 10 January 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21662
The player can't loot while in combat. Melee opponents will stop you from looting. But ranged combatants will not when protected from their missiles. I.e.: LOS checks are done to allow / disallow looting.
NPCs are suspicious (beta 0.5, 15 February 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22580
NPCs will investigate suspicious sounds/disturbances that the player can create by using Oblivion's default grab and throw functionality on items.
This has now been made obsolete by shadeMe's Enhanced grabbing: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19847. forum thread (may be closed in the future due to post limit): http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=950553.

Realism mods
These mods are best played with other mods that more closely simulates: Encumbrance, Fatigue, Hunger, Sleep, etc. than normal Oblivion.
Currently, I have played these with Abo's Realistic Fatigue, Battle fatigue and injuries, and Eat and sleep.

Inventory is a backpack (beta 0.66, 3 January 2010) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21721
The player's inventory is a backpack item. Dropping it, will drop everything but equipped and hot-keyed items. But without it, the player won't be able to carry much.
?Alternatives to death and reload (beta 0.60, 3 January 2010) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23862
Alternatives to death and reload: Good samaritan, Reset button, and/or Death has penalties.
Eat and sleep (beta 0.62, 3 January 2010) Source: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24605
Requires the player to both eat and sleep. Has features that suit high Timescales.
?Magicka-based magic jewelery limits (beta 0.53, 3 January 2010)
The player's Magicka determines the number of magic jewelery they can wear.
?Battle fatigue and injuries (beta 0.65, 21 December 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24604
Battle fatigue (psychological damage from getting near death from combat) and injuries (physical damage of cuts, bruises, ligament sprains) are incurred in combat.
Gold is an inventory item (beta 0.59, 29 November 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21881
Gold is an inventory item. It is weighted. And can be dropped or put in containers. This is an alternative to Reneer's Gold Mod. Full-credit for the idea to Reneer. Reason for building my own is in the read-me. Another alternative is Derek Baker's DB's Weighted Gold Plus.
?Attribute-based and skill-based damage modifiers (beta 0.54, 3 November 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23062
This mod increases damages of weapons based on the wielder's attribute and skill levels. With the default settings of this mod, a character with 100 Strength and 100 Blade can inflict five times more than a character with 0 Strength and 0 Blade.
Encumbering loot armour and weapons (beta 0.54, 8 June 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22193
Any armour and weapon that are not equipped has encumbrance penalty.
Sittable rocks (beta 0.54, 7 March 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21966
Rocks are sittable. Just go up to one and activate it.
Ignoring the main quest has consequences (beta 0.5, 20 February 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22699
Gates to the planes of Oblivion will start to appear if the main quest is ignored.
?Death has penalties (beta 0.52, 10 February 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22121
The penalties will be applied to ANY character in ANY game that is loaded after the player dies. This has been made obsolete by Alternatives to death and reload.

Miscellaneous mods

Actor details (1.1, 5 January 2010) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29127
Prints out to the console a list detailing the current state of an actor.
Silent equip/unequip clothing (1.0, 3 January 2010) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28974
This ESP ensures that the equip and unequip sound effects of clothing items are silent. Useful if you have mods that use enchanted tokens to apply their penalties. E.g.: Battle fatigue and injuries, Eat and sleep, Magicka-base magic jewelery limits
Auto 1st-3rd person view (beta 0.983, 3 January 2010) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21834
Learns your point-of-view preferences in these situations: combat, running, sneaking, swimming, in doors/dungeons, in cities, in the wild. And switches the camera to those preferences.
Auto-save and time (beta 0.995, 29 November 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22136
Auto-save, clock, alarm, PurgeCellBuffers, and "crucified poses" remover run at intervals set in the INI file. An alternative to Streamline's auto-save, PCB, and "crucified poses" remover functions.
Clean up (0.55, 3 November 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24606
Prevents saved-game file-size bloating by cleaning the game of actor and item references that are no longer required.
Customisable HUD components (beta 0.57, 8 September 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22272
Six additional bars (two of each orange, purple, and yellow) can be configured to track in-game variables.

Stable mods
(if time suggests fully working / bug-free mods, then these mods can be listed as being bug-free.
unfortunately, i still can't guarantee that.

)

?Combat timescale (1.1, 8 June 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8471
Timescale is automatically halved while in combat. Duration of fights are more acceptable. And it makes the default Timescale of 30 feel better. This mod is not really necessary when Timescale is set really low. (Some have mentioned they play with Timescale set at 1.)
This has now been made obsolete by Auto-save and time, above.
Horse speed equals player speed (v1.7, 2 April 2009) http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8805
Riding the horse at walk speed is not a penalty to the player anymore. Actually, the horse's speed equals to 110% the player's speed. So there is a benefit to riding a horse. Note that this bonus is applied ONLY to the ridden horse and ONLY when it is walking. Gallop speeds are unchanged. Direct your horse through doors without dismounting.
This has now been made obsolete by Horse commands 4, above.

(these mods should be small enough that listing them in one thread is sufficient.)
Direct link to my TESNexus mods: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/search.php?name=&scid=20&author=kuertee

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:58 pm

this second post will always contain details of recent updates to my mods:

NPCs yield http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22392
0.65, 3 January 2010:

New feature: Reprogrammed the mod.
It now uses arrays rather than scripted tokens to keep track of actors.
New feature: Fight or fly behaviour.
NPCs will flee from opponents that would be too tough from them.
New feature: To prevent yielded NPCs from attacking again, their dispositions to their opponent are increased.
Previously, "ModDisposition" was used.
In this version, yielded NPCs and their opponents are added to a "special" faction that achieves the same effect.
But with this method, the effects of the mod in NPCs will never persist after the mod is deactivated.
Bug fix: NPCs in these factions will never yield:
Daedra, Kyn, Mythic dawn, Undead.
Note that a clean-save is required to use this version.
See the Upgrade section about clean-saves.

Horse commands http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8766
4.8, 3 January 2010:

Bug-fix: Moving horses to the player when the player moves between Oblivion and Tamriel.
Bug-fix: Putting the Saddlebag Miscellaneous item into another container will now automatically close the loot window to start the transfer of items.
Previously, the player had to close the loot window for the transfer to occur.
New feature: The contents of the saddlebag of a stolen horse that was reclaimed is dropped from the horse.
Bug-fix: Previously, the script would fail on some horses when the Horse command was issued.
Bug-fix: Previuosly, horses that got stuck due to pathing will forever be stuck.
In this version, horses that are following the player will be teleported to the player if their distance to the player becomes too large.
Bug-fix: Previously, calling horses was limited to horses within 1 cell away from the player.
In this version, all horses within 3 cells around the player will hear the Horse command.

Eat and sleep http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24605
0.62, 3 January 2010:

Bug-fix: Beef, Ham and Mutton are now meat products.
Tweak: maxSleep and maxFood added to the INI file.
These are the maximum amount of Energy and Satiation that the player can keep.
Bug-fix: Auto-eating from the Food menu.
Bug-fix: Duplicate menu items do not show in the Food menu in this version.
Tweak: HUD show codes to control WHEN the HUD shows.
Set "pHUDShowCode" in the INI to one of these values:
(From: http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/NewHudS)
Show Codes
Add for combinations; i.e., GameMode+MenuMode is 11 (1 + 2 + 8)
GameMode is assumed.
0: Hidden
1: GameMode only (all menus closed, console closed)
2: MenuMode only (a menu open, console closed)
4: Console only (from GameMode or MenuMode)
8: Disable the "only" behaviour - this is necessary for any combination of GameMode, MenuMode, and console
16: Always display under Oblivion menus and huds (i.e., compass)

Magicka-based magic jewelery limits http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23861
0.53, 3 January 2010:

Tweak: The Equipment slot of jewelery are now only set to 255 when the Inventory window is open.
When it is closed, the Equipment slots are reverted.
NPCs are known not to equip apparel with their Equipment slots set to 255.
This tweak will ensure that the Equipment slot of jewelery will revert back from 255 in GameMode.
Bug-fix: The INI file is now read.
Previously, there was a typographical error in the location of the INI file in the mod.
Bug-fix: Previously the Attributes and Skill penalties would revert to Agility and Acrobatics when the game is restarted.

Alternatives to death and reload http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23862
0.60, 3 January 2010:

New read-me: This read-me has been newly rewritten.
Unlike other developers, I always suggest to play the mod with its default options first.
When questions arises or when you need to tweak the mod, THEN read the read-me.
Tweak: Permanent penalties with SetActorValue have been removed.
But the gameplay around temporary penalties from enchanted tokens have been expanded.
See Death has penalties and Pilgrimages to Altars of the Nine section.
New feature: The option to teleport to Guild houses, inns, jail and chapels is available at load after death.
Previously, these options were only available when the player is saved from death.
In this current version, after loading a game after a death, the mod will teleport the player to a Guild house, inn, jail or a chapel.
Remember that this only works in the Tamriel worldspace.
If the player dies elsewhere, the player is not teleported.
By default, this feature is ON.
Set "useTeleportOptionsAtDeath" to 0 in the INI file to disable it.
Tweak: With the new option above, the mod will not try to save the player from death by default anymore.
I.e. saveFromDeath in the INI is set to 0.
Bug-fix: The player will never teleport to the Bruma Mage's Guild when MG14Plot Quest reaches stage 10.
Tweak: Healing the player after getting saved from death.
New feature: Newly-reprogrammed Death has penalties feature.

Auto 1st-3rd person view http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21834
0.983, 3 January 2010:

Bug-fix: Mounting a horse with a weapon out camera switch - hopefully.
New feature: Activatable object in range camera switch.
Tweak: Delay in switching camera.
Previously the delay simply stopped the execution of the script for that amount of time.
Now the script keeps tracking user preferences and scores during the delay time.
I.e. the camera can be changed to another before the switch occurs.

Inventory is a backpack http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21721
0.66, 3 January 2010:

New feature: Compatibility tweaks with the shackles from Jail Shackles Fixed and Updated: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28959.
The shackles cannot be unequipped by the player anymore.
Thanks Haldar!
Bug-fix: Previously, a script would fail on new game starts.
New feature: Support for Magicka-based magic jewelery limits.

Silent equip/unequip clothing http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28974
This ESP ensures that the equip and unequip sound effects of clothing items are silent.

Actor details http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29127
Prints out to the console a list detailing the current state of an actor.
1.1, 5 January 2009:

The output of the UI component name under the cursor is now turned off by default.
To display the UI component name under the cursor, hold down the right-shift key when in MenuMode.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:19 pm

Hey kuertee,
Got a question regarding Auto-save and time. I was using Time Manager v1.2 by Tekuromoto until very recently. I've been having weird CTDs from some unknown source so I decided to swicth to your mod Auto-save and time.
Now, I can't get pluggy to work (which your mod require) I just get a CTD as soon as I load any save game, but I was wondering if Auto-save and time could work without pluggy? Time Manager works without you just miss out on 1 feature (real time alarm).
I just need the the timed menus and auto-saving, would that be possible without pluggy?

Btw I'm extremely happy with Eat and sleep sinec I've been updating my mod (see sig) and you eating mod is the only one I know of that takes weight of the consumed food into account. Good job, man! :goodjob:

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:17 am

re: auto-save and time

Hey kuertee,...Got a question regarding Auto-save and time. I was using Time Manager v1.2 by Tekuromoto until very recently. I've been having weird CTDs from some unknown source so I decided to swicth to your mod Auto-save and time. ...Now, I can't get pluggy to work (which your mod require) I just get a CTD as soon as I load any save game, but I was wondering if Auto-save and time could work without pluggy? Time Manager works without you just miss out on 1 feature (real time alarm)....I just need the the timed menus and auto-saving, would that be possible without pluggy?...Btw I'm extremely happy with Eat and sleep sinec I've been updating my mod (see sig) and you eating mod is the only one I know of that takes weight of the consumed food into account. Good job, man! :goodjob:

hey mercer! thanks, mate!
as with a whole bunch of my other mods, i have an update to Auto-save and time that makes pluggy optional.

note that i experienced a lot of crashes after saving or before loading with OBSE 0018b4.
the OBSE thread has a link to a b5 version.
that stopped the crashing in game.
note, however, that even the game crashes around save/load, the files are never actually corrupted.
so the crashes are different from those experienced from streamline.

re: real-time alarm. i have something similar: real-time countdown - which is actually labelled as "alarm" in its INI.
it notifies you of how long you've been playing for across loaded-games. this is what requires pluggy: i save how long each saved-game session takes in an INI.
in-game, the mod adds them up to give you an alarm at every interval that the user sets.
it looks like this in a message-box: "you've now been playing for 10 minutes."..."you've now been playing for 20 minutes.", etc...
so, its a little different from tekuromoto's. and i kind-of prefer the count-down than a real-time alarm clock.
but it functions like so because my mod was built well before obse's new function that retrieves the real time from the computer.

re: Eat and sleep
tejon's Fatigue effects (which eat and sleep was based on - originally) has some weight considerations with food.
but its calculation is not a simple 1:1 like my eat and sleep.
with my eat and sleep mod, if you've set say 1 feather of food to equal 8 hours of energy, 0.5 feathers would exactly equal to 4 hours of energy.
Fatigue effects's consideration of food weight is not as simple as this. or so i believe anyway. (corrections about this assumption are welcome.)

eat and sleep also has a coming upgrade that makes it not rely on pluggy.

(i really just got to sit down and release these updates.)

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:46 pm

Psymon & Kurtee: Continuing on from previous thread discussion about leveling mods and corrupted stats;

There are three different levels that you can change stats on; base, drain/fortify, and damage/restore. The getAV function returns the sum of base + drain/fortify + damage/heal.

The base is the underlying bottom layer stat modified by setAV and returned by getBaseAV. They applies to the base form and thus apply to all instances of that form... do setAV on a wolf and it will be applied to all wolves. Changes at this layer are "permanent" in the savegame and can only be undone by setAV'ing the stat back. Mods should be very careful about using setAV, and should never do it for temporary effects.

The drain/fortify layer is changes applied to the base using modAV for drain/fortify effects. They apply differently to each instance of the base form... do modAV on a wolf and it will only be applied to that wolf. They can push a stat above its base value, and effectively change the max value that can be reached by restore/heal spells. Changes at this layer are "permanent" in the savegame and can only be done by modAV'ing the change back. Mods should be very careful about using modAV, and although it can be done for temporary effects, mods should be careful about undoing their changes when the temporary effect is removed or the mod is uninstalled.

The damage/restore layer is changes applied on top of base + drain/fortify changes using modAV2 or damage/heal effects. They apply differently to each instance of the base form... hit a wolf and you only hurt that wolf. They cannot push a stat beyond it's base + drain/fortify limit. Changes at this layer are "semi-permanent" in the savegame, and might be wiped when cells are refreshed. Actors with sufficient heal/restore abilities can undo these changes themselves.

Abilities are special in that they are applied to the base form, and thus modify the base layer and apply to all instances of that base form... add an ability to a wolf and you add that ability to all wolves. The player is kinda special in that there is only one instance of that base form, so you can do setAV and apply abilities willy-nilly on the player safe in the knowledge that only the player is affected.

Leveling mods apply only to the player and should be manipulating the base layer. If you install Realistic Leveling it will recalculate and set your level and attributes based on your skill advances, undoing and repairing any "damage" done to the base layer by other leveling mods. RL does not touch the drain/fortify or damage/heal layers at all, so if your stats are still screwy after installing RL then you probably have "damage" on the other layers.

Various mods will apply changes to the drain/fortify layer, and some of them will loose track of their changes and leave behind some mysterious deltas. If you uninstall a mod that has applied modAV changes then those changes will be left behind. The UOP includes repair tools that can be used to repair "damage" left to this layer by other mods. Note that if you repair drain/fortify changes while another mod still has modAV changes applied that it has *not* lost track of, then you will see mysterious changes when the mod undoes it's changes... make sure you repair drain/fortify only when other mods don't have any modAV changes applied.

Once your base and drain/fortify layers are under control, the only thing left to bring a stat to it's undamaged state is applying heal/restore till the stat is at it's max. This can be done at the console using modAV (modAV at the console behaves like modAV2 in a script and changes the damage/restore layer); modAV attribute 1000

Note I documented this and other related stuff at;

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Talk:ModActorValue2

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:43 am

hey kuertee !

Working on any new mods ? Just curious.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:31 am

updated mods:
Inventory is a backpack http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21721
0.64, 28 October 2009:

Bug-fix: Better support for Derek Baker's Weighted Gold Plus mod.
Previously, when the "dropGold" option is set to 0, the coins would be removed from the player when the backpack is picked up.
Bug-fix: The carryable item limit when without the backpack was previously taking into account unplayable "tokens" added by mods.
New feature: Support for theNiceOne's Enhanced Economy's Misc Adjustment for gold.
Only when Misc Adjustment was set to anything but 100 would gold amount inconsistencies present themselves.

Attribute-based and skill-based damage modifiers http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23062
0.54, 3 November 2009:

Bug-fix: Hand-to-hand damage multiplier.
Thanks, ThumperZ!

Eat and sleep http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24605
0.59, 3 November 2009:

Bug-fix: Previously,detecting pluggy was buggy making it a requirement.
The HUD and pluggy are optional in this version.
The "useHUD" property in the INI now works.
Tweak: When there are no food or sleep requirements, the HUD is transparent (i.e. with an opacity of 10%).
Tweak: The default location of the HUD in Menu Mode is now towards the bottom of the screen rather than the top - where inventory roll-descriptions were getting covered-up.

Horse commands http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8766
4.5, 3 November 2009:

Tweak: Recompilation on OBSE 0017.
This removes the requirement of OBSE beta 0018.
Tweak: Recoding of the checks for Oblivion and Dream cells to remove OBSE beta 008 requirement.
This removes the requirement of OBSE beta 0018.
New feature: Support for Alternatives to death and reload.
Previously, when the player is "saved from death", the horse will try to make its way back to the player in real game-time.
With this version, the horse will get teleported to the player once they exit to an exterior cell.

Alternatives to death and reload http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23862
0.58, 3 November 2009:

Bug-fix: Detecting Oblivion and Dream worlds from Henantier's quests.
Bug-fix: I forgot to include the shader file required by Abo's Realistic Health.
This component never worked in previous versions.
New feature: By default, the player is now saved from death when knocked out.
As per http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/GetKnockedState:
"'Knocked out' includes: 1) unconscious essential actor, 2) paralyzed actor, and 3) negative fatigue knockout.".
Turn this off or on in the INI file.
Tweak: Keeping track of health.
Tweak: Healing after saved from death is handled by a different script.
Tweak: I forgot when I made Pluggy optional for this mod - it was a few versions ago.
I added this note in the Death has penalties section:
With pluggy, the penalties to attributes increases every time the player loads a new game after death.
Without pluggy, only 1 set of penalties are applied regardless of how many times the player dies.

Auto-save and Time http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22136
0.994, 3 November 2009:

Tweak: Cancellation of script when the player is in the process of the "sitting" animation.
The intermittent crashes immediately after an auto-save seemed to have decreased with this tweak.
However, upgrading to OBSE v0018 beta 5 may have helped also.
Tweak: Pluggy is now optional.
With pluggy, the Alarm clock will function as normal: across loaded saved-games in a game-session.
Without pluggy, the Alarm clock will only count time in the one loaded game.
I.e.: loading a game will reset the clock back to 0.

Clothing matters http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22653
0.58, 3 November 2009:

Tweak: Disposition changes are now applied by adding the NPC and the player into custom factions.
This is a much safer method than modifying the actual npc's disposition to the player.
However, as the norm, the game takes other factors into account when calculating the disposition between the player and the conversing NPC.
So, sometimes the disposition modifiers are overriden by those other factors.
This can be examined in the console when "debug" is set to 1 in the INI file.
Previously, the disposition modifiers were forced with ModDisposition.
Compatibility fix: Impersonating guards (i.e. the addition and removal of the player into and from guard factions) now only apply when the player is not already in the guard faction.
This feature ensures compatibility with other mods that allow the player to join guard factions.

Clean up http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24606
0.55, 3 November 2009:

Bug-fix: Superfluous non-item (and unplayable) references that cannot be picked-up were getting detected by the mod as items that need to be cleaned.
Thanks, scruggsy! http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1028563&view=findpost&p=15198736

re: Auto-save and time

Hey kuertee,...but I was wondering if Auto-save and time could work without pluggy? Time Manager works without you just miss out on 1 feature (real time alarm)....

update released above.
also, check my previous reply to your post re: alarm clock.
(pity tekuromoto didn't take-up on my offer of him taking on Auto-save and time.)

re: actor value, getAV, getBaseAV, drain/fortify, damage/heal

Psymon & Kurtee: Continuing on from previous thread discussion about leveling mods and corrupted stats;...There are three different levels that you can change stats on; base, drain/fortify, and damage/restore. The getAV function returns the sum of base + drain/fortify + damage/heal.

WELL DONE, abo!
let me soak this all in.

i'm currently building an MMM plug-in that replaces its ModAV Healths in the OnLoadCSNPC scripts with enchanted Drain Health tokens.
(the ModAVs in MMM's OnLoadCSNPC scripts drives its "actor diversifaction system". basically actors would have slightly different stats.)
hopefully, this would remove these bugs:
1. health healing over its max.
2. npcs continuously casting heal or buff on themselves.

hey kuertee !...Working on any new mods ? Just curious.

hey shadeMe.
nah! just trying to figure out user-experiences with my BFandI mod - particularly with Pure Immersion: http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=978889&view=findpost&p=15272215.
i'm still grinding (i.e. letting it run in the background) away on that other project - albeit very slowly.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:56 pm

re: actor value, getAV, getBaseAV, drain/fortify, damage/heal
i'm currently building an MMM plug-in that replaces its ModAV Healths in the OnLoadCSNPC scripts with enchanted Drain Health tokens.
(the ModAVs in MMM's OnLoadCSNPC scripts drives its "actor diversifaction system". basically actors would have slightly different stats.)
hopefully, this would remove these bugs:
1. health healing over its max.
2. npcs continuously casting heal or buff on themselves.

Note there are some other funny corner cases and minor buglets around how this works... in particular modAV2 has a strange bug where you can heal an actor past his max, but the next modAV2 will reset it back to the max value... this might be contributing to some of the confusion here... make sure you read the wiki talk page as I explain it in detail there with code example fragments...

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index...:ModActorValue2

It's important to note that getBaseAV is not the max! modAV's can boost the max past that, or drop it lower than that. However, as there's no easy way to find the max (except by healing until it stops increasing), it wouldn't surprise me if Actor AI just bases it's heal decisions on what getBaseAV returns. It also wouldn't surprise me if it didn't take into account fortify/drain effects, so your token idea might not help either.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:55 am

re: Battle fatigue and injuries

Note there are some other funny corner cases and minor buglets around how this works... in particular modAV2 has a strange bug where you can heal an actor past his max, but the next modAV2 will reset it back to the max value... this might be contributing to some of the confusion here... make sure you read the wiki talk page as I explain it in detail there with code example fragments...

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index...:ModActorValue2

It's important to note that getBaseAV is not the max! modAV's can boost the max past that, or drop it lower than that. However, as there's no easy way to find the max (except by healing until it stops increasing), it wouldn't surprise me if Actor AI just bases it's heal decisions on what getBaseAV returns. It also wouldn't surprise me if it didn't take into account fortify/drain effects, so your token idea might not help either.

yeah i thought about these aswell: that enchanted tokens may not help at all.
so, i've got 2 esps i'm switching between for testing and comparisons:

kuertee MMM OnLoadCS health effects only.esp: health fortify/drains only to test actor healing and actor ai to heal quirks
kuertee MMM OnLoadCS scale effects only.esp: removes all effects except mesh scaling and undead speed changes from these scripts

also, i've removed BFandI's fixes to health: force whole numbers to health and ensuring health is never > getBaseAV health.
i incorrectly thought that fractional health and health > getBaseAV were the causes of some of the health issues reported.

thanks, abo!
(and i'll look into the wiki page. thanks for all your work.
i too have been wanting to add a couple entries to the wiki in regards to enchanted tokens instead of ModAVs - but time is a luxury.)

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:18 pm

so, i've got 2 esps i'm switching between for testing and comparisons:

kuertee MMM OnLoadCS health effects only.esp: health fortify/drains only to test actor healing and actor ai to heal quirks
kuertee MMM OnLoadCS scale effects only.esp: removes all effects except mesh scaling and undead speed changes from these scripts

Are these purely for testing the problem, or are you attempting to make a workable patch?

Because I had suggested the possibility of an OBSE patch that would remove healing spells from the problem actors when their health is at or above the new limit MMM sets.

It's a kludge of a fix, but it should prevent them from healing themselves continuously....might need to remove healing potions as well, though.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:40 pm

Thanks for all those updates, kuertee. :foodndrink:

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:02 pm

Thanks for the updates

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:37 pm

After testing the new Alternatives to death and reload I still have the problem where I cant run or jump. Is this a feature or a bug?

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:47 am

After testing the new Alternatives to death and reload I still have the problem where I cant run or jump. Is this a feature or a bug?

Did you catch his previous response? It was just before the last thread was closed: http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1028563&st=200&p=15275962&#entry15275962

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:14 am

Did you catch his previous response? It was just before the last thread was closed: http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1028563&st=200&p=15275962&#entry15275962

well I thought so too, but I cant run no matter what, and the run-walk switch doesnt say anything about jumping. Also the problem ONLY happens after a death and only while this mod is enabled. Also if it helps is seems to happen as soon as the penalties are applied

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:26 am

Started playing with "Inventory is a Backpack" over the last day or so, and I have a couple of questions.

When you drop the backpack, you can only pick up a few things before the script starts to complain. Does this take into account whether you equip the things you pick up? Is there a minimum "encumbrance" for when you drop it and don't have much equipped or hotkeyed?

Have you considered changing the method of acquiring it in a new game by simply placing it next to the skeleton in the first area?

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:10 pm

re: MMM and Battle fatigue and injuries

Are these purely for testing the problem, or are you attempting to make a workable patch?...Because I had suggested the possibility of an OBSE patch that would remove healing spells from the problem actors when their health is at or above the new limit MMM sets....It's a kludge of a fix, but it should prevent them from healing themselves continuously....might need to remove healing potions as well, though.

hey showler!
i have a version working already. i built it immediately after i posted my query in the MMM thread.
ultimately, it'll be a working esp that is bundled with BFandI.
i'll try to get my OBMM script skills up before release so that i can have nice prompts for the user for which to enable.
(and thanks for your contributions in the MMM thread.)

re: Alternatives to death and reload

well I thought so too, but I cant run no matter what, and the run-walk switch doesnt say anything about jumping. Also the problem ONLY happens after a death and only while this mod is enabled. Also if it helps is seems to happen as soon as the penalties are applied

hey jiinx! unfortunately, it seems like Alternatives may have some funny interactions with other mods that you use (similar to Psymon's experience with BFandI and Pure Immersion). Alternative's only effects on the player after load from death is to penalise random attributes. with pluggy, these penalties increases after every load after death.
but if the player does not die after 4 hours, the penalties are removed.
similar to BFandI, these penalties will always be listed in the player's Active effects list.
Are there any "death penalties" listed in your player's Active effects list when this happens?

can you try the mod with the death penalties disabled?
its a flag in the mod's INI file.

when you experience it again, can you post a list or a screenshot of your attributes (agility, intelligence, etc...), and your Active effects list.
thanks.

re: Inventory is a backpack

Started playing with "Inventory is a Backpack" over the last day or so, and I have a couple of questions....When you drop the backpack, you can only pick up a few things before the script starts to complain. Does this take into account whether you equip the things you pick up? Is there a minimum "encumbrance" for when you drop it and don't have much equipped or hotkeyed?...Have you considered changing the method of acquiring it in a new game by simply placing it next to the skeleton in the first area?

the item-limit penalty without the backpack is configurable in its INI file.
there are two choices:

encumbrance penalty: the player can only carry a certain amount of feathers without the backpack
item-count penalty: the player can only carry a certain number of individual items

re: acquiring the backpack,
at the moment, the item-limit penalty becomes active immediately after the backpack is activated.
so if the backpack is not on the player from the beginning, the player will not be able to pick-up too much loot.

however, your suggestion is good.
if the player is still in the first (tutorial?) mission, the backpack needs to be found (it will be in the open and won't be hidden) and picked-up.
otherwise (i.e. enabling the mod in the middle of a game), the backpack is immediately acquired and equipped.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:53 pm

hey kuertee, for an alternative model to the backpack, how bout a plain old sack for simple types? (rangers, barbarians). and thanks for the updates!

anybody else have suggestions to alternative looks to the backpack?

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:19 am

Downloaded and updated!
Have you thought it worth implementing random amount of penalty on death (within set boundaries). I die seldom and wouldn't mind seeing my attributes go from anything between -1 and -10; maybe even a fatigue drain on a percentage of your total fatigue to show your body healing?

Cheers!

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:38 pm

hey kuertee, for an alternative model to the backpack, how bout a plain old sack for simple types? (rangers, barbarians). and thanks for the updates!

anybody else have suggestions to alternative looks to the backpack?

It's not a question of suggesting alternative looks. It's a question of supplying alternative models, rigged to fit the player.

I believe Jannix Quinn volunteered the current model (or maybe Hel Borne). If you can find any rigged duffel bags or sacks, I think kuertee would be agreeable to adding them.

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:28 pm

re: ModAV, Drains, Fortifies, enchanted tokens

...There are three different levels that you can change stats on; base, drain/fortify, and damage/restore. The getAV function returns the sum of base + drain/fortify + damage/heal....http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Talk:ModActorValue2

thanks for this very informative post abo!
as warned by the wiki, mods that do not track their changes can ultimately corrupt attribute values.
(e.g.: Real Injury - i'll point a finger at this mod because i know with a high certainty that it has a chance to break attribute stats.)

anyway, i've added to the ModActorValue2 talk page: http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Talk:ModActorValue2
it seems that GetBaseAV does not take into its calculation Drain and Fortify effects from enchanted tokens.

here's my conclusion from my post in that page:

An NPC receives +49 health from MMM's actor diversifaction system.
My alternative esp applies this bonus by adding and equipping enchanted tokens: 1 with a Fortify Health of 40, another with a +5 and another with a +4.
Before the items are equipped, the NPC reports a Health of 116 / 116 - as expected.
However, the frame after the items are equipped, the NPC reports a Health of 165 / 116.
This suggests that the Fortify Health effects works, but that GetBaseAV has not taken them into its calculations.

Does this mean that when we use GetBaseAV, we'll need not only to subtract Fortify effects and to add Drain effects (as per the GetBaseActorValue page: http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/GetBaseActorValue) but also to check whether the origin of Drain and Fortify effects are from enchantments and not spells and abilities?

I.e.: true base AV = GetBaseAV - (fortify effects from abilities and spells only) + (drain effects from abilities and spells only)

re: Inventory is a backpack

hey kuertee, for an alternative model to the backpack, how bout a plain old sack for simple types? (rangers, barbarians). and thanks for the updates!...anybody else have suggestions to alternative looks to the backpack?

It's not a question of suggesting alternative looks. It's a question of supplying alternative models, rigged to fit the player....I believe Jannix Quinn volunteered the current model (or maybe Hel Borne). If you can find any rigged duffel bags or sacks, I think kuertee would be agreeable to adding them.

hey norbingel! unfortunately showler is correct.
i have very limited 3d modelling skills.
i can do the odd chair or table but not a sack or anything that needs to get attached to a "biped".
sorry, mate.

and thanks for the hand, showler!
just to confirm: i aksed jannix quinn for permission to use his backpack mesh.
lucky for us, he approved - considering that the model is from a his own separate backpack mod.

and yes! if anyone finds a suitable mesh as an alternative to the backpacks, let me know, please.

re: Alternatives to death and reload

Downloaded and updated! ...Have you thought it worth implementing random amount of penalty on death (within set boundaries). I die seldom and wouldn't mind seeing my attributes go from anything between -1 and -10; maybe even a fatigue drain on a percentage of your total fatigue to show your body healing?...Cheers!

hey locksley!
the original intent for the penalties after dying is to increase after every death. but you need pluggy for this.
without pluggy, the penalties will always be -1.
but i can see your point.
i'll add new minimum and maximum for the penalty in the INI for its next release.
thanks, locksley.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:55 am

thanks for this very informative post abo!
as warned by the wiki, mods that do not track their changes can ultimately corrupt attribute values.
(e.g.: Real Injury - i'll point a finger at this mod because i know with a high certainty that it has a chance to break attribute stats.)

anyway, i've added to the ModActorValue2 talk page: http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Talk:ModActorValue2
it seems that GetBaseAV does not take into its calculation Drain and Fortify effects from enchanted tokens.

tokens are not applied to the base "form", they are applied to the instance... therefore they don't affect the getBaseAV stats... they behave exactly the same as any fortify/drain spell... ie they behave like modAV changes to the stat. The one benefit over modAV is the token object itself tracks the drain for you (and so does a spell), and when the mod is unistalled, the token goes away, and the drain goes away with it.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:20 pm

re: Battle fatigue and injuries

tokens are not applied to the base "form", they are applied to the instance... therefore they don't affect the getBaseAV stats... they behave exactly the same as any fortify/drain spell... ie they behave like modAV changes to the stat. The one benefit over modAV is the token object itself tracks the drain for you (and so does a spell), and when the mod is unistalled, the token goes away, and the drain goes away with it.

yeah, as i've just found out: enchanted tokens works exactly like ModAV in regards to application.
(but, as you say, tokens are infinitely safer in regards to compatibility and activation/deactivation of the mod.)

anyway, my enchanted tokens-based MMM diversification method didn't remove the continually healing bug.
the npcs that were continually casting spells had health a fraction (i.e. less than 1) from their full derived (i.e. GetBaseAV) health: e.g.: 149.25 / 150.
i think the healing system works in whole numbers but the damage system works in fractions.

so, i'll be returning my health fixes to BFandI: any actor found to have their health < 1 from their full derived health, the mod will adjust it with ForceAV.
ForceAV has many problems on its own.
but this "fix" will only apply to NPCs and only when their health is a fraction from their full health - a very specific condition.

but i'll include my optional ESP that disables MMM's diversifaction system on stats, leaving its diversifcation system for mesh-scale.

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:31 pm

Hi,

Im really interested in Attribute-based and skill-based damage modifiers. I love the changes that mod adds to gameplay. I have a question about it for anyone who had played lot of hours with the mod. Having OOO, or FCOM, how does it affect difficulty balance, it makes the game easier or harder?

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:29 am

Hi,

Im really interested in Attribute-based and skill-based damage modifiers. I love the changes that mod adds to gameplay. I have a question about it for anyone who had played lot of hours with the mod. Having OOO, or FCOM, how does it affect difficulty balance, it makes the game easier or harder?

I got it tuned about half as much bonus on damage as original mod settings and I am playing with OOO. I would say it makes it both easier and harder. When you have gained a few levels you can wade through lower levels and that makes sense since you are coming in as a master of blades (if blades are your thing) in a mass of rabble, sure sometimes they can pull you down if you are not careful.

One gets somewhat more cautious attacking things unknown because they could kill you real fast - that is the hard part, but it makes the game more fun too; it's like OOO on steroids.

I am very happy with this mod in my load order, it is easy to adjust and has lots of tweaks.

Cheers!