Mods, stability & save games - Thread 2

Post » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:42 am

Update: I apologize for the lack of updates on this but due to real life issues I won't be able to do as much work on this as I'd originally hoped. That said I'm still able to keep this updated if people provide me with information on the subjects, but I won't be able to do much more then that for some time.
If anyone wants to run this topic instead of me or wants to use the information here I see no problem with that, just hope it's ok with everyone who contributed.


My general thoughts regarding the structure of this thread.
The way I see this topic is that it should be as short as possible since I think having a wall of text will discourage many users from actually reading it. Basically I want to make new users aware of the different aspects without to much detail. It would be up to the user to search for additional information on the topic. I have been considering that I could provide additional information with spoiler tags and still keep it short. Feel free to add any other tips or guidelines that you feel belong on this list. Ps: English Isn't my first language so if anyone wants to rewrite anything so that it's easier to read then please do and I'll update the text /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' />.


---This is a work in progress, everything in this post might not be 100% accurate!---


General advice
Install the game outside of the Program files (x86) folder.
On windows 7 and Vista Steam installs the game under c:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\Common\Skyrim by default. Having the game installed to this folder can cause issues with a lot of mods.

Create backups before adding/removing/updating mods.
Incase something goes wrong you can restore the backup, that way you don't have to reinstall everything.

Only install a few mods at a time.
Not all mods work together and if there are any bugs or your game crashes it's easier to find the mods that cause them. It's often a combination of mods that cause these issues and not the mods on their own.

Be careful when installing older mods.
Mods made before the creation kit was released can cause stability issues if they have not been updated.
It is generally advised to never use anything older than February 7, 2012.

Make sure you have a proper load order.
If you use mods that have .esm or .esp files then it's important that your mods are loaded in the proper order.


Savegames
Never overwrite a save game.
[FALSE]
The game doesn't overwrite a savgame but instead replaces it with a new one so "overwriting" a save is the same as creating a new one.

Don't use auto saves or quick saves.
[FALSE]
The game handles auto saves and quick saves the same way it handles saves done through the menu. Therefore they are no different than regular saves and point 1 also applies here.

If you die restart the game before loading a save game.
[UNKNOWN]
In general this shouldn't be an issue but there have been reports that some mods require a restart of the game.

Restart the game before switching to another character.
[TRUE]
In some cases data gets carried over when you swap to another character so the safest thing to do is to restart the game (quit to desktop) before doing so.

Updating or uninstalling a mod might corrupt all subsequent savegames, leading to crashes, poor performance and excessive savegame size.
[TRUE]
Updating or uninstalling a mod which uses Skyrim's scripting system will cause no issues if the mod writer has coded it correctly. However, it is possible for a perfectly working mod to have accidental coding errors which might cause irretrievable savegame corruption if it is uninstalled or updated. Some mods, by their very nature, will be more likely to have these errors than others. As a general rule of thumb, updating mods without uninstalling them is safer, but still not guaranteed safe. Exercise caution, and always be prepared to revert to a save made before the mod was ever installed.



Optimizers
Programs that optimize textures can cause crashes if used in conjunction with certain mods.
[FALSE]
Optimizing textures can degrade their visual quality and by doing so increase game performance but it's considered safe to do so.

Programs that optimize meshes can cause crashes if used in conjunction with certain mods.
[TRUE]
I't's not recomened that you do this currently.


Leftover topics
I was planning on writing about these aswell but I don't have enough free time to do it right now. If anyone wants to write any of them then please do and I'll add it to the list.

Installing textures VS what your system can actually handle and how to monitor it.
Using steams default behavior of backing up your saves to the cloud.
How to minimize the amount of programs running in the background.
Mod managers.
Help maintaining a proper load order.
Cleaning mods.
Bloat.
Unofficial patches.
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{Richies Mommy}
 
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Post » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:18 pm

Some valuable advice regarding un-installing mods from a Bethesda developer...


I believe it is possible for mod makers to design their mods to minimise any un-install problems, but mod users should never assume that a mod can be un-installed safely. Always keep a save from before a mod was installed - just in case.
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lilmissparty
 
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Post » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:43 pm


This should be no different than doing it with loose files since the BSA must be unpacked as part of the process. So you've already covered it with the optimizers section.

Would be curious as to what you're looking for here. The USKP (and its siblings) have an extensive FAQ now which ought to cover most everything.
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Allison C
 
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Post » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:57 am

At the risk of presuming to speak for the OP, I'd guess he's looking for a brief note (for the newcomer to using mods) as to what the USKP are and how they can best be used to help with a stable game.

I may be guessing wrong, though /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />.
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Zach Hunter
 
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Post » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:18 am



Thanks I added the quote from SmkViper, to the first post /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />.
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+++CAZZY
 
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Post » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:10 am


I read somewhere that the optimizer(s) can corrupt the bsa archives when it repacks them. I didn't research this matter at all so I have no idea if it's valid.
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Laura Wilson
 
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Post » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:29 am


That is exactly what my thoughts were /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' />. The same goes for a lot of the other subjects I have listed there like "Cleaning mods." (TES5edit), "Help maintaining a proper load order." (BOSS)

The way I see this topic is that it should be as short as possible since I think having a wall of text will discourage many users from actually reading it. Basically I want to make new users aware of the different aspects without to much detail. It would be up to the user to search for additional information on the topic. I have been considering that I could provide additional information with spoiler tags and still keep it short.
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Heather M
 
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Post » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:09 am

That wouldn't be the fault of the optimization process though. The only one I know of that's out there, BSAOpt, has no issues with corrupting the BSA files it repackages.

Ah, ok. I'll see what I can condense into an appropriately bite sized bit for the unofficial patches then.

As far as cleaning mods, that's probably not a bite sizer since it's an inherently technical subject. Gopher's videos for TES5Edit are probably the best place to point people for that.
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Phoenix Draven
 
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Post » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:16 am


There's also Optimizer Textures and that's probablly where I found it. After reading through the comment section it seems some it causes issues for some users while it works just fine for others, including the author.


That would be awsome. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' />


Yeah, making users aware of his channel would be a good idea since he covers alot of other stuff aswell.
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Miss K
 
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Post » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:26 am

In the previous games I saw alot of recomendations not to drop to many items into the game world as they would never get removed and bloat up the save games. Is this still valid for Skyrim?
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Jonny
 
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Post » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:47 am

@Silent:
Yes, items you drop will never be cleaned up. I dropped a Forsworn Armor in Kolskeggr roughly 20 levels ago, when I'm back it's still there.

Optimizing textures shouldn't cause any problem at all. Optimizer Texture (Ordenador.exe, in case we're talking about different thing), AFAIK, only re-saves things as if you open them in Photoshop and deals with things manually. If worse comes to worst, textures would be displayed incorrectly, but not crash.

You don't actually "overwrite" a save. Whenever you "overwrite" a save, the OS actually deletes the old one and writes the new one; a new save and an overwrite save are basically the same data. That's how my Windows 7 works at least.
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Wanda Maximoff
 
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Post » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:56 am

Yes, although unless you're in the habit of dropping thousands of items, it isn't going to be a problem because those items had to originate from somewhere first. It's the people doing those 20,000 cheese wheel videos who are in real trouble /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />
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Darlene DIllow
 
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Post » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:17 am


Yes Ordenador was the one I was thinking of, I'll remove it from the initial post.
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Thomas LEON
 
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Post » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:48 pm

Good to know that dropping items isn't that much of an issue then /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />. But from now on I will not be making any additions on my own as my intentions have never been to start or spread any rumors, just clearify which are still lrelevant.

Also this topic will be updated when necessary even if I don't log in to the forum or make any posts. I've been lurking this forum since Morrowind so I usually keep an eye on things /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />.
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Damien Mulvenna
 
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Post » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:16 am

How do I update my script mod correctly?

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KiiSsez jdgaf Benzler
 
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