hmmmm.........i wasnt aware they made magic rare and actually meaningful. magic was almost meaningless in TES world cause you could do anything with it up to tying your shoes. im glad they made it rare.

I found the Magic System to be to much like the original oblivion where as you progressed the spells do not scale well to the environment and eventually more and more are becoming worthless. offensively.

I'm going to ask InsanitySorrow if I can make a Nehrim version of The Arsenal, not sure if I should post it here,
But my other question? Toggle Quantity Promt is it convertable?

XengYou - I think Warrudar (hope I spelled it right) is going to release an updated version that will.

SaidenStorm-

Well that is too bad - I'm only level five and was hoping that the rarity and meaning would remain constant. I generally don't buy or use a lot of magic in game anyway as I often find 90% remains unused.

Well then porting a spell delete would be necessary.

If there ever is a magic overhaul for Nehrim - I'd hope for a spell scaling that occurs dynamically. I was hoping that with finding magic symbols and stones for enchanting that it would be more unique and less of this pittance amounts of heal/damage points.

Do hand to hand (etc.) animation replacers work with Nehrim? I would imagine they should, as I would love to add Sinkpoints Hand to Hand animations into Nehrim (Sinkpoint= BEST hand to hand animations).

I don't use Sinkpoints HTH replacer, so I don't know how it works (that is, does it have an ESP or is it just a replacer?)

'Cause if its just a replacer, yes it should (I use 3rd person anims in 1st person and it works fantastic in nehrim)


Unfortunately I see that Nehrim, dispite its efforts to be not like Oblivion, makes a lot of the same mistakes that it does.

Such as below:

- using Oblivion's broken Barter system (instead of EE's)

- Oblivion's weak magic system is still used (as opposed to something more dynamic like Supreme Magicka/Lame (my personal Fav)

- No support for Custom Races (seriously. I could see this with Bethesda, but as a team of modders it's outright foolish to think that other modders aren't going to make custom races for Nehrim, yet there's no dialogue catering to custom races, and yet there's no dialogue/quest changes catering to custom races.)

- Lack of "Choices and Consequences"/Oblivion style questing

For the third one i had a few ideas that changes the quest dialogue, but not the nature of the quests themselves.
(note: not the actual dialogue I had planned, just the general idea of what they should say)




Let me know what you guys think

You can still import your face file from a save using Wryebash. To solve the hair CTD issue, all you have to do is extract the 7 vanilla hair meshes (and 2 vanilla textures) from the bsa and put them in the appropriate directory under Data. The game will then load showracemenu, and you can alter the face/hair/eyes.

Re the custom races, as in Oblivion, some custom races (xivilai, golden saint, mystic elf) wouldnt fit the story and i think that's why nehrim is the way it is.

Re choices and consequences, i havent played that long yet but i really liked the part in the abbey where i had to choose between the boar hunting or the goblin(?). though i agree it could probably do with more choices (witcher style).

RE: Custom races. Well I'd have to disagree there. Written right you can make ANYTHING work and accomplish the same result. see my example.


RE C&Cs: Yeah it does slightly better in oblivion in that regard, but some things just annoy me that I couldn't do it another way (like I said, the slave thing.) Maybe I'm just too much of an Integration: The Stranded Light fan.



A little list of Things I'd hopefully like to see conversions of in the future:

LAME & Race Balancing Project: Like I said I'm working on a conversion for the later. It has a few flaws, namely that voices for the xivilai no longer work, summons don't work, andt unless you use Archive Invalidation Invalided (which itself poses the problem of the Nehrim logo on the load screen being replaced with the default Oblivion one.) the only way to get the skins / models for the Aureals/Mazkens Bone arrows, and Memory Robes is to manually extract them from the Shivering isles BSA (and no I do not have enough experience to make a program/script that does this automatically.)

LAME however I have no idea, but I would assume it would with some moderate/heavy modification (for starters all the merchants/leveled lists would have to go and be replaced with Nehrim ones.) Since it not only leaves the unused spell effects but also opens up some new ones.

Integration I didn't list cause it's a quest mod and it wouldn't make any sense.

Supreme Magicka: See the note on LAME.

Exnem/HEGC: I'm not sure weither or not these really work, but I'd really like to see something tailored specifically for Nehrim.

COBL: Yeah I know what your thinking. "COBL Ingredients in Nehrim would make no sense!" well... no it wouldn't. But remember: COBL is more than just Ingredients.

Fearsome Magicka: Now how cool would this be? Like someone mentioned, Nehrim seems to have the same useless magicka problem that Oblivion does. Of course, it would have to be changed a bit. Unlike with the oblivion version you can't just have everyone and their brother and their pet spider using these, and you'd DEFINITELY need a new spell merchant.

Midas Magic: Would no doubt require some heavy/moderate modification to take out the oblivion references, but it could work. Storywise it wouldn't be a problem, as it doesn't make any sense in Oblivion anyway.

To the OP: make a list please. Actually two: one for mods that work, and one for wishlist mods

Would Realistic Fatigue be compatible? I can't stand the default fatigue settings in Oblivion making fatigue completely uneeded.

Deadly Reflex:

Shows the key menus, and the chance of success menu, but then nothing else happens. No ring, no confirmation message box...

and yes I'm using OBSE with it too.


From what I've seen, I think it has a problem handling quests: It sometimes does not want to load quests/questscripts correctly.

ive tried both RF and SM Encumbrance and Fatigue. i can start the game with both but i couldnt see any effects in game. might just be peculiar to my setup (though im running very few mods with nehrim) and awaiting others who can confirm if either works on theirs

rylasasin-

Well for the RBP resource issues you are talking about - why would you need scripts - you just open the RBP esp in edit then look at the file path for those resources and cull that together as either a BAIN package or OMOD that would place those needed files loose.

It is not Archive Invalidation that makes the Nehrim logo go away it is the use of DarnUI - I will eventually get around to making an edited Darn so that only inventories and a few select other things are Darnified. I took Darn out and got the Nehrim logo back, but even then I could just extract the Nehrim logo and put it in the Darn package.

I'm not feeling your choices for mod translations especially the LAME/SM/Midas axis.

I think Oblivion got the whole magic thing wrong and I don't think those mods answer the problems - well at least LAME is honest in that ... 'Less Annoying' and all. Buy making spells something you buy at every other vendor it just makes magic meaningless and overabundant. This combined with horrible spell using AI by the NPCs and magic is the least appealing aspect of Oblivion. Spell books cluttered with soon to be useless spells, constanty running into magic users that, oh maybe once in a while, land a lightning bolt. boring.

I get excited by magic mods but then always lament that it is often more spells and less meaning. I've not played Fearsome, but I see a lot of DnD in there. Midas and LAME - actually have some useful spells.

To me spells lose their meaning because you are only going to have hotkeyed the best and all the rest you have to scroll through to get to search for something good. Clutter.

With Oblivion there is supposedly 6 schools of magic but just like the factions you could learn them all without consequence - be a master of any of them. Kind of like be head of the Dark Brotherhood AND the Fighters Guild.

If I had the ability I'd make the schools more exclusive to each other and strip out spells in favor of things like chargeable powers, or conduits, or relics. Completely strip out the need for money on learning any of them in favor or having to quest and practice to get further. Maybe something like to learn the deeper parts of alteration go find this or that teacher (sent by current teacher) and the teacher would have his tasks and quirks. To learn more about conjuration go find the necrodaedracon or something. Then remove as much of the magic from most citizens as possible. And each time you encounter a magic user have them be of a school and full of the biases of that school. Not just lip service like at the Cheydinhal mage's guild.

I have to say that Nehrim's beginning parts had me thinking it would be more like that. What with spell casting a crime in towns and magic users generally disliked by most. But then truck out of the arcane sanctum and find a traveler or trainer who will train you right next to town. ehh. Ah well.

So with those preferences I'd rather see things like this ported over:
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27746
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25224
Judgement of the Nine (if fixed)
Duke Patrick's new combat magic (when done)

I do like no conjuration magic in Nehrim.

Spell delete would be needed.

In short if a magic overhaul happens for Nehrim then I hope it is more about accentuating the story of magic there instead of about making Nehrim more like Oblivion.

Thomas Kaira-
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1116000-mods-that-work-with-nehrim/page__view__findpost__p__16392514 - I use http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12074 which works well. I'd think the skill ups that RF has would not fit with the scheme of training and leveling they have (I know it could be turned off though).

The new http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27947 should work (will test tonight) may be great alongside Kuertee Attribute & Skill mod.

Like I said, it seems to have a problem with quests and questscripts, both of which play a MAJOR part in 95% of all mods (even non-quest mods like RF and Deadly Reflex use quests)

I first found this out when for my RBP conversion project I tried to make a custom quest script that adds achievements for what race you play as. (IE if you played as a non-daedric oblivion race you'd get "What in Oblivion am I playing?!" Achivement. but for some reason the quest script doesn't load.)

Someone needs to tell the Nehrim devs this, as this is very important to Nehrim's future. If questscripts don't work, then people wont' be able to mod Nehrim. and if people can't Mod Nehrim or have trouble doing so, then Nehrim won't last very long.

@Psymon:

Resources: I was refering to OMOD/BAIN scripting (I can't even use BAIN to be honest)

AI/Darn: problem is, for that I didn't even USE darnui or anythign similar... not for nehrim at least. and it appeared right after I installed AI, so it had to be AI.

Magic choices: Personal preference I guess.

Achievements? You mean like Steam or online play?

With as many race mods as there is - I'm certain a race overhaul that is Nehrim centric would be more appropriate (for me - all subjective here).

Here is the first race mod for Nehrim: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=33144 or is it http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=32847

[edit] why script the extraction of resources - just do it yourself.

In nehrim you get achievements. I simply wanted to make some custom ones, but it didn't let me. Besides the point though anyway. The point is that non-nehrim quest scripts seem to not work a lot of the time, and that causes problems for a lot of mods that should in theory work well (IE deadly Reflex)

Race: Again personal choice/preference. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean someone else shouldn't do it. Besides, I'm strictly speaking from a Modder's veiwpoint here, not from a players.

Resources: I mean for a release or something. For people who don't know well enough to get OBMM and open the DLCShivering - meshes and Textures bsas and extract them.

Well You would likely have to make whatever it is dependent on SI - not sure if you can do that easily - simplest would be to rename SI BSA files. Or, make an esp to load the resources.

Regardless it would mean people negotiating moving SI resources into the Nehrim folder.

But I don't know - I'm so used to arcane install methods - doesn't bother me. I'd think anyone who knows RBP would be more accepting of that kind of thing anyway.

And why can't you use http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/?

Hmmm seems to me to be something completely over my head. My RBP conversion is more of a Proof of Concept anyway.

BAIN gives me all sorts of errors when I try to load it and then it does nothing.


Besides, can we get back to the point please instead of trying to step around it and talk about other things? Quest Scripts not working the way they're supposed to and causing mods to malfunction? We're getting off topic with our personal Preferences of mods, and BAIN and other things. We should really be talking about what works in nehrim (modwise, not lorewise), what doesn't, and if it doesn't why it doesn't and what can be done to make it work.

Uhhh - mmm - OK - I didn't realize there was only one topic.

Well are these quest scripts that are not loading - native to Oblivion or Nehrim - if so then I'd ask in the main thread. They would probably appreciate specific instances and examples.

If not then are these scripts OBSE compiled? I know that bg2408 didn't like using OBSE so I don't think that is it.

I've not examined the contents of the Nehrim esm but I suspect it is an altered Oblivion.esm and if that is the case then it could be an esm that was pre shivering Isles, so there may script updates in the post SI Oblivion.esm - or something like that.

- Its mostly mod stuff, again I point to Deadly Reflex or my own copy of Achicementsquest (Achivementracequest). My observation seems to be that certain quests (note: a quest is defined by anything that uses the quest tab, and houses either dialog or script necessary to the mod. Not something that the player physically does int he game) do not load or at the very least their quest scripts do not load.

(WEIRD... I gave my achievement quest one last go, made a new quest for it, etc. and now it works!! funny though, I didn't change anything on the script, and I made the quest out to be the exact same as the last time. Oh well, i guess its a hit-or-miss thing.)

- They should be. The only one i've tried that uses OBSE is Deadly Reflex, and I didn't alter their scripts at all. Not to mention the script I'm using for the racial Achievement doesn't use OBSE at all. And I know it isn't the lack of OBSE because that moment when I did forget OBSE I didn't even get past the first messagebox. When I used OBSE I was able to get up to the percent chance menu, but it didn't do anything after that.

- Unlikely (considering how I think they require you to have the latest patch) but possible.

Ohh alright - I thought you were saying native Nehrim wasn't loadng scripts and quests.

Now you are over my head.

They do require the latest patch but SI is not at all used it seems.

I just looked at the Nehrim.esm in edit - immediately remembered I speak next to no German - I looked around - maybe it is a 'from scratch' esm, not sure. Saw orc races, high elf and even khajit are in there (haven't seen them in game) Ren's mystic elves are the Aeterna. Dremora in there too. Saw about a dozen classes even though the character has none - probably for NPCs.

One could probably add birthsigns or even alter them without much hassle - unless the birthign name/entry is needed as a trigger later.

Anyway - I'm more into adding basic mods right now - not overhauls of anything.

Maybe for the next thread I could right an opening post about how to install OBSE, OBMM, and a few other things that help in modding Nehrim.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v213/rylasasin/Nehrim%20Tinkering/

I've since updated the descriptions to give some advice concerning how these races would get a long with the locals of Nehrim (Hint: most of them don't.)

For most of them, Nehrim's locals automatically give them a SEVERE disposition hit, since they're a very intolerant and superstitious bunch (It would be more realistic to have them attack you on sight, but we can't have that so yeah... disposition hit.) Exceptions are a few:

-Wood Elves and Hidden Elves: Confused for Aeterna. They still take a bit of a disposition hit, but not quite as severe.

- Bretons, Imperials: The locals think they're Alemanne, so the locals treat them as such.

- Redguards, they look exactly like a foreign race (the Korinther in the CS) so they're treated much the same.

- Nords: They look EXACTLY like Normanne, so locals are none the wiser of them.

Everyone else has a severe disposition hit (-20 disposition modifier).

And yes I need to update the icons for the Achievements, so that the "What In Oblivion am I playing?!" one is the oblivion symbol, the "Realm Traveler" I'll either keep or change into the Conjuration symbol, The "The way it was Meant to be" one I'll change to the Nehrim symbol.

I'd just like to point out something I tried that works in terms of Wrye Bash - if you search/replace every instance of "Oblivion.esm" with "Nehrim.esm" in every .py file, and make it recompile them (i.e. delete the pyc files if they exist), it works perfectly - and is evidently not too bothered about it, either.
Bashed Patches seem to work, although I haven't been able to do much other than tweak a few settings (The Nehrim esm/esp has no bash tags, so... yeah.)

Could you upload those files - or at least send me a link to where they are uploaded. I'd like to test these out - maybe if things work well it could be an optional download on the Wrye Bash nexus page.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mg04bvxiowavwv6
Here it is. Remember to delete all .pyc files. Install Wrye Bash first, though. These files are based off of Wrye Bash 287.

Also, a quick note: don't import names or any text from Nehrim.esm when making a Bashed Patch unless you want to put everything in German. Right now, I think it automatically puts Nehrim.esm in some categories, but does nothing for the Data or English .esp files.