[Chris Cross Cabaret Man]

I just noticed the screenshot is called "Markarth01." Does anyone know the significance of Markarth? Have we seen this in lore? Or perhaps someone can identify it on the Skyrim map?

This has been discussed. Its a city...or should I say, was a city

[Quick Draw III]

From last thread:

If they can even handle snow properly, they can handle rain properly. It's basically the same idea, except with rain you don't get it accumulating all across the surfaces like snow, but rather a possible wet-looking effect covering surfaces. I sure hope a wet-looking surface for rain is the case.

I can see you have an understanding of the the snow shader in that, yes, they could make a rain shader via a similar method, but what nobody seems to be understanding, including you, no matter how many times I go in depth about the topic, is that we still haven't received actual information regarding HOW the snow falls, just what it looks like on the ground. There is a complete disconnect between the two unless you use particle simulations.

Specifically, the question you were answering, was that rain falling through roofs would no longer be a problem. We can't possibly know this! Just because GI has taken some artistic license in describing a pixel shader, everybody on here has envisioned a world full of snow particles, where you can watch each one land and fall, and stick, and they all continue collecting as long as it's snowing.

To state it as plainly as possible: The system that dictates the way snow appears in the sky and the system that dictates how snow appears on the ground are completely separate. To combine the two you would need an advanced physical model and a supercomputer for the physics simulation.

So, no, we have no idea if they've come up with a better precipitation system. I assume they have, but for all we know they could be reusing the rain/snow "particle" system from Oblivion in Skyrim, which was an abomination. And like I stated in the last post, they could have NEVER fixed the rain/snow problems in Oblivion because the rain/snow wasn't even in world space. Their system was like having a group of people constantly drop confetti around you as you moved, but not only that, each particle would stay with you as if it was predicting your movement.

I've probably already linked you to my in-depth post on the snow shader stuff, but here you go anyway:

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1158033-amazing-snow-and-enviroments/page__st__20__p__16971345#entry16971345

Again, as long as they move the actual snow particles into world space, they'll be able to physically interact in a very primitive manner at best. Each particle isn't going to stick around for eternity, they won't even collide with the terrain in any way. In world space, if everything is above the Y-position "0", for example, the snow particles will continue through *everything* they "touch" until that point and then terminate. The only way to fix overhangs and such is to have a collision plane/mesh/box that approximates the area underneath well enough to fake collisions, but it will really just terminate the snow particles in that area.

[Kelvin]

You mean lady. :tongue: Hah and no problem! Just wanted to help. Maybe I'll join the community! Or maybe I'll slip back into lurking.

:lmao: Sorry. Do stick around, though ! It's full of interestingly sleep-deprived overanolysing people.

[Eric Hayes]

it seems like most of the info in todays update was already in the gi magazine, i think its going to happen again <_<

What's going to happen again?

[Evaa]

thread 3 isnt locked yet

[Marie Maillos]

-snip-

And what people also seem to forget all the time, real time snow phsysics would kill performance - badly. Just take a look at the game Falling Sand, wich does nothing else but basic particle physics, and it lags all the time if there are large numbers of particles. Now imagine the vast lands of Skyrim, you need a supercomputer to run such a simulation.

[Chad Holloway]

I was also a little concerned about the discrepancy between the screenshot and the claim that everything has shadows. It's also an overcast day where I am, so I had a more careful look outside, and I think you're right. There wasn't much in the way of shadows (apart from places where there's basically no light at all, such as under a car). But trees and things like that aren't casting much of a shadow.

On overcast days, light doesn't generally come in directly, it's broken up by the clouds. Thus it is bouncing all over everything and shadows can't form the way they do on clear days where direct sunlight comes in. Rather they are extremely subtle except in conditions where even ambient light would not effectively light things (As you said, like under a car). Moreover, in a large screenshot showing distant objects, they would not be perceivable at all.

[His Bella]

This is SWEEEEET! :celebration:

For better or worse though, I'm having a hard time managing my expectations with each new piece of awesomeness revealed about this game. I don't want to get over hyped but dammit they are making it so hard!

[Sxc-Mary]

The last second comment gi received does not describe the feature better at all. What a cop out.

actually from a political standpoint it does.

most average people are more sympathetic to something like a Mammoth (as it reminds them of Elephants which, to must people are considered docile and sweet animals, ha I beg to differ, but I digress) Further more most people see wolves as ravenous monsters that only kill for killing's sake (again though I beg to differ)

the idea of saving "a poor sweet mammoth" from "vicious" wolves sounds a lot more appealing to most people than helping some swarthy giants take one down

keeps PETA off their back

[Carlos Vazquez]

Editted original post, NEW INFO*

Thanks to all those who contributed.

[Karen anwyn Green]

Referring back to comments about the "killing the shop keeper, sister takes over" deal in the other thread. Wouldn't it be cool if nobody saw you kill him, and you could get hired to find the culprit? That could make for an interesting quest line. You could accuse an inoccent person of the crime and get off Scot free Or confess if your guilt ridden conscience gets to be too much. Whatever floats your boat so to speak.

Sounds awesome, but I don't want the guards in a city on the other half of Skyrim to realize I SILENTLY cut someones throat to steal from them. Unless there is an equivalent to forensics and a long distance telephone type thing, this should not be in the game again! I got so pissed that guards would try to arrest me for killing someone completely out of sight

[BRAD MONTGOMERY]

I dont want long standing compainion like in FO3.

[Horse gal smithe]

I think this may have gotten overlooked because I posted it right before the first thread got locked. I'm wonder if with the new havok behavior implementation we'll finally get characters (both our character and the NPCs) to respond and interact with the environment and surroundings. Specifically I'm talking about actually taking steps up and down on staircases and changing the walking animation when walking up or down a hill. Does anyone know if havok behavior will include these things? It always drove me crazy in Oblivion how the same walking animation was used to matter what the context was.

I watched this video, I'll try to find a link and edit this post. I think it explains how it could do just that.

EDIT: Here it is. http://www.havok.com/index.php?page=havok-behavior on this page. @ 1:24 in the video I think he talks about modifiers with the Havok Behavior system that allows for them to alter, in their example, a running animation. So when they go around a corner they can dip their shoulder. I think that would mean that Bethesda could set it up with modifiers for when going up or down a decline like you suggested.

I just noticed the screenshot is called "Markarth01." Does anyone know the significance of Markarth? Have we seen this in lore? Or perhaps someone can identify it on the Skyrim map?

Give http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1159657-markarth-side/ a look over. It answers your question I believe.

[Campbell]

Sounds awesome, but I don't want the guards in a city on the other half of Skyrim to realize I SILENTLY cut someones throat to steal from them. Unless there is an equivalent to forensics and a long distance telephone type thing, this should not be in the game again! I got so pissed that guards would try to arrest me for killing someone completely out of sight

You. I've seen your kind before...

[stacy hamilton]

snip

I never believed each particle of snow would actually accumulate on surfaces. That would pretty much be impossible to do in a game, even on high-end computers. Rather, I believe the accumulation is perhaps the textures changing and large meshes of snow growing in size upwards and fitting into patterns of the surfaces.

[Dean Brown]

Sounds awesome, but I don't want the guards in a city on the other half of Skyrim to realize I SILENTLY cut someones throat to steal from them. Unless there is an equivalent to forensics and a long distance telephone type thing, this should not be in the game again! I got so pissed that guards would try to arrest me for killing someone completely out of sight

As far as I see it this is how it is. If nobody witnesses you murdering the brother for instance, the sister and the guards are none the wiser. At least that's how I hope it is.

[Laura Ellaby]

Any new hub update starting this week?

[Bethany Short]

Havok's Behavior Technology: Improved character and creature movements. Characters now transition more realistically between walking, jogging, and running. Combat animations are also improved as they were able to balance both first- and third-person perspective by adjusting the timing values for swings and blocks depending on your perspective. Even very detailed animations such as characters struggling to move when trapped in environmental hazards such as spider webs! :drool: “We definitely have made a significant jump in how it plays [in third person perspective],” Todd Howard proclaims.

Check this out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcds8eY93Zk

Especially @ 1:22 it really shows off the difference.

I hope the ogre's / giants have that kind of detail. The motions it did to beat it's chest, when it roared, and how the clothing moved just right. I got high hopes for the monsters/beasts in Skyrim to be a lot more scary and terrifying then in Oblivion or Morrowind, and not just because improved graphics but realistic behavior, no pun intended

[Janine Rose]

I never believed each particle of snow would actually accumulate on surfaces. That would pretty much be impossible to do in a game, even on high-end computers. Rather, I believe the accumulation is perhaps the textures changing and large meshes of snow growing in size upwards and fitting into patterns of the surfaces.

In other words they will fake the accumulation and that is fine with me.

[Joanne]

Any new hub update starting this week?

Probably Wednesday.

[Crystal Clear]

Any new hub update starting this week?

There should be at least one more this week, probably two. No news on the days yet.

[sas]

Jan 10th Behind The Scenes Of Skyrim MONDAY
Jan 12th Skyrim: Secrets Of The Wall WEDNESDAY
Jan 13th Road To Skyrim: The Todd Howard Interview THURSDAY
Jan 14th The Sounds Of Skyrim FRIDAY

Jan 17th The Technology Behind The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim MONDAY

Do the math.

[darnell waddington]

Thanks for maintaining the info.

[Miragel Ginza]

I never believed each particle of snow would actually accumulate on surfaces. That would pretty much be impossible to do in a game, even on high-end computers. Rather, I believe the accumulation is perhaps the textures changing and large meshes of snow growing in size upwards and fitting into patterns of the surfaces.

OK, but the entire point of my reply was not that, but the fact that you are saying it's "assured" that snow/rain won't fall through overhangs outside, JUST because of what you've seen about snow accumulation. There is more than one component to a weather system in-game. The only thing described so far has been what it looks like on the ground. Just because the snow that forms on an overhang looks good doesn't mean it got that way by blocking the snow you see in the air. It's because it's a simple pixel shader, and the snow you see in the air is a bunch of 2D particles that try to approximate something *extremely* complex like fluid dynamics, with very few actual physical inputs. Maybe at most Skyrim will have wind speed and direction inputs for their snow (in the air) system.

But still, despite my skepticism and critical thinking skills, I do remain hopeful that they have an entire snow system as good or better than that in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS-Ba7KXX5w .. I don't know if that game has any overhang-type areas though to see if snow goes through it, they may not have solved that issue either.

[Katie Louise Ingram]

guys, I took a look at the http://www.havok.com/index.php?page=available-games and found that these are the games that use the behavior engine:

....The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar

Awesome, love that game! :celebrate: