Hand to hand characters in general have always kinda been lack luster. I love playing monk like characters, but it's pretty hard to stick to the style when we only get our fists. If we monks are truely destined not to have any weapons, could we get some magic then?

Touch spells...well, they're kinda not what Skyrim is going for. If the devs are telling the truth when they say they want Skyrim to have a more brutal feal to the game, in my mind a good way to do that would be to chance touch spells to punching spells. A fire touch spell in a characters left hand and an ice touch spell in their right, which would have visible effects in the world such as the left handed being covered in a sheet of ice and the right one to be aflame. The spells would last for a set amount of time, and the power of the flames or the hardness of the ice would be determined by the spell one is using and how effective they are at using destruction magic.

The inherrant problem with this is anyone who wishes to use hand to hand has to then also choose destruction. I can't really think of a great way to fix that, but an okay fix could be to think of hand to hand as a magic school that stands on its own. The higher hand to hand skill, the stronger power attacks that use magicka to add power to them. With magicka fueling hand to hand instead of stamina, hand to hand would no longer need to be held to the relm of realism and taking on larger enemies with your fists would become believable for those who think a hand to hand fighter shouldn't be able to punch through armor.

Destruction magic would deal with damage dealing ranged combat, and hand to hand fueled by magicka could cover the close range more physical magic battles. Its...not a perfect fit, and probably isn't going to happen this time around. However...hand to hand really does need some attention. I really love playing as monks, but they are sevearly underpowered and underdeveloped as it stands. Be it weapons or magic, the combat style needs an overhaul.

I think the good way to mix hand to hand and magic is to allow us to switch between the two instantly. If you already have your fists "equiped" you should be able to switch to spells without "unequiping" your fists. On the other hand, someone using a sword would have to sheat it and then he could use a spell. It might no be much but it would allow h2h users to switch to magic without having to wait for their weapons to be unequiped like a battlemage would have to, which is a certain advantage.

But if you simply want to make h2h stronger then all we need is fists weapons.

Another posibility would be to make weapons less magical instead of making fists more magical.

I already stated it a lot of times that monk characters should have their gear that will help them remain unarmed and unarmored.
That can be done by having special kind of clothes that will give bonuses that they will benefit most from (ie. will give nice H2H skill bonuses, shield ability and such).

Anyway, there could be scrolls/tomes with teachings in martial arts all over Skyrim that will give you permanent bonus to H2H and therefore will allow you to rise it above 100.
Also, there could be an other version of scrolls/tomes.
While in H2H mode, you can equip them and receive bonuses since that scroll/tome will represent a teaching you are following (so no more than one of them can be equipped at the same time) and will give bonuses to your H2H combat.
Those bonuses are not limited to directly improving the skill, but can also add bonuses like fire damage, for example, and you will also deal additional fire damage with each hit.
This is rough idea, but I think it could easily solve main problem with marital arts and that's equipment.

If this would happen id play a monk

I dont know if i would "play as a monk" but i would certainly play more as a unarmored warrior :thumbsup:

That's pretty much the goal. Making the hand to hand skill a believable option to use against dragons and other large monsters or armored warriors. Though I kinda think it all ready is in the TES world with magical enchantments and spells to increase the skill and str...making it use magicka in the first place instead of making you use magic spells to make you punch harder kinda gets rid of the round about way its being handled now.

That, and fire and other destruction touch spells mainly used for hand to hand would help increase its use. Who wouldn't want to punch someone in a jaw with lightning dancing around your fist?

How about your gauntlets are your weapons. I always was annoyed in Oblivion when I wanted to poison my gauntlets (which happened to be spiked).

I'd like to see that too. They honestly should deal more damage. But gauntlets are a funny thing, in that they are both offencive and deffencive. They'd go into an armor slot, but should be able to be used in an offencive manner. They'd have to be designed so that the damage they would deal would only be used when the fist is actually be the one attacking, instead of the damage bleading over into the sword or other weapon you happen to be using.

I hope gauntlets deal extra damage this time around, because by all rights they should...but I'm kinda sceptical if it will happen. I see special gauntelts that are designed to be purely offencive happening, but both deffencive and offencive gauntlets might be hard to pull off.

Enchantable gauntlets I really want to see, but I dont know if it will happen.

Gauntlets were enchantable in OB, I used to enchant them to give me h2h bonuses then called them "knuckle dusters" lol

would like to see gauntlets count towards h2h damage but like some1 said begin both defensive and offensive would be difficult... maybe something like in fallout with unarmed weapons (spiked knuckles) would solve the problem or an attachment to your gauntlets might do it like the hidden blade in assassin creed or wolverines claws which could be used to finish off an enemy..
(loved the finishing moves from AC2 were u could fight enemies with your swords and then finish them quickly with the hidden blade or short dagger looking forward to the ES version)

I would Like to see Gauntlets have an option for cast on strike like weapons do. this would still leave the option for constant effect but if you chose cast on stike then when you punched it would cast the spell in the same way a sword does. If this was done playing as a hand to hand player could be a true option even late in the game if you had the right enchantments on your gloves

Well, you couldn't get elemental damage delt on hit like other weapons. That's what I'd like to see when I say enchantment.


Same here. That in itself would help hand to hand fighters not need a powerfull secondary combat style or combat support spell to back them up towards the end of the game.

Just make the damage for gauntlets = to armor rating. If you go on Oblivion armor and weapon values it is always less than a dagger, but at least it is better than nothing. Also, for enchanting, either make so any harmful effects (Burden, Fire Damage, etc.) HAVE to be an on hit enchantment or give players the option to make it an armor or weapon enchantment (for the masochists out there )

After that, give us a few fist weapons that don't also act as armor like brass knuckles or katars) and we're all set.

Always used hand to hand in Oblivion, not completely useless, the mastery perks affected blocking as well as giving you extra attacks.
I never thought of it as martial arts though, more of a skilled pub brawler than a Shaolin, which is why I always went for Orcish gauntlets with fortify strength. That meant being classed as wearing heavy armour, even though the rest was robes and normal shoes, but it's more rewarding playing the character the way you want to, rather than crunching the numbers. Thought it a bit weird, that the only non armour gloves were wrist irons, please let this be rectified in Skyrim.

KRILLIN IS YOUR HERO?!!! HAVE YOU CHECKED HIS OWNED COUNT RECENTLY?!!! Jk, jk

But, on topic, I don't care to much. I'll be playing a spellsword or something most likely anyway.

I wouldn't mind seeing an unarmored "perk" that trades raw speed and increased unarmored protection for a penalty to other, more traditional, fighting styles. At high levels, you should actually be punished for wearing armor - in the sense that your armor class is lower with anything on than you naturally get with the perk wearing nothing but regular street clothes.

Frankly, if you are fast enough, and can deal enough damage with your fists or staff, you can drop an enemy before they even get their sword out. At very high levels, combined with stealth, you should be able to clear out all but the worst dungeons with little more than a plain robe, a staff, and brass stones.

It would be amazing to literally beat the poo out of a dragon with your bare hands...

JS monks dont need to fight hand to hand, but they cannot use a weapon with a blade

I hope they do it like in NV that was very fun and there needs to be hand to hand weapons

The unarmoured skill will have to come back too. That would be a big plus for me.

Actually I think it would be cool if they just did an Armor skill with perks for Unarmored, Light Armor and Heavy Armor

I've always fancied the idea of monk characters, but Beth doesnt make it easy, especially since they took out the unarmored skill...

Only a true hero could get owned so much and still keep getting back up. Though...his death is coming soon. I'll be sad after that happens, but I'll probably laugh at the time.

I'll probably be playing as a spellswords as well, but my second or third character always tries to use only hand to hand to fight enemies. Its rather hard, because you need to either use restoration spells to help pump up str or the hand to hand skill with magic, or have destruction touch spells for when the health tanks come charging.


If hand to hand kills get finishers as well...think of the finisher they'd have to come up with for a dragon. :drool:

To everyone who says that gauntlets should increase H2H damage and that there should be some H2H weapons like katar and stuff.
No, that would be a bad idea since it would ruin an unarmed and unarmored idea of martial artists who follows only the way of the fist and no other weapons.

Good point.Especially about the pub brawler and shaolin monk bit :thumbsup:
If hand to hand was done as it should be,it would be one of the best skills in the game,and would be even more popular. The skill itself isn't useless,it's just how it was done.
If you could do kicks,flying kicks,sweeps,grabs,throws,disarming,counters,limb breaks,neck snaps and many more,hand to hand would be one of /if not the best skill. It would be awesome.Add claws,spikes,dusters to that ,plus poison,it would be unbelievably effective,not to mention you be more agile and dexterous too. Because your not holding a weapon ( with grip ),taking away what your fingers can do. Your hands would be extremely dexterous,the combination of how you use your hands a fingers come into play. You could use your fingers to grab the edge of a knights shield,then pull it away from him,or force it to hit him,turning his weapon,defence against him. As said if hand to hand was done properly,it would be devastating...plain and simple.
You could also use magic with as like a Chi-Blast,magic = energy ,Chi = energy. Just because a knight etc can wear armour,doesn't mean he couldn't get his arsehole kicked,buy a monk type PC. Armour does not stop you from being knocked back,staggered,or put on your [censored]! If hand to hand was done properly it would have a mountain of great perks for it......I really hope this skill stays,and if it stays,i hope they have improved it alot. Great skill...simply great

I'm sure there will be a lot of good perks for hand to hand characters, like from Fallout 3.