Bring back crossbows... repeater crossbows would also be cool. But no firearms.

I say some black powder guns, but only single shot rifle and guns, lot′s of damage but not much accuracy and long reload time.

Add something to a otherwise cookie cuter fantasy series.

If you want guns, PLAY FALLOUT 3, seriously.

NO GUNS, AT ALL, WHATSOEVER.

I am completely closed minded about this.

there is difference between guns and guns, simple, muzzle loaded black powder guns can work well within a fantasy setting.

Plus ya got to agree having 5 games in the same setting and still being stuck in a pure sword and magic setting is a bit stagnating.

No, they don't work well in a fantasy setting.

Again PLAY FALLOUT 3. I do. I like it, but I want to keep TES as far away from it as possible(aside from being a sandbox game).


I DON'T agree. Thats part of what makes an Elder Scrolls Game an Elder Scrolls game.
Once they add guns, even the simple ones you suggested, people, like you, will ask for more and more.

if a game like Arcanum can pull of 19th century industrial revolution in a fantasy realm and make it believable I think TES could pull of simple black powder guns.




so being a cookie cuter stereotype of a fantasy world is was make TES what it is?

There is the LORE, the openendedness(sandbox), customizable characters, and more that make TES.

But if thats the case than YES it is a "cookie [CUTTER] stereotype" and thats the way 99% of us(TES fans) like it.

For a 3rd time PLAY FALLOUT 3 if you want guns.

I could maybe understand muskets and flintlocks in a fantasy game, to be honest.

Maybe.

But there's no reason for them to be there in TES, so it doesn't matter anyway. I'm against them for lore reasons. Not because I think it would destroy the game and turn it into Grand Theft Dogsled: Skyrim. I just think that they have no purpose for them there besides for people to say "look, I have a gun" and for the person next to them to say "Look, I have a 100% Shield spell and a Fireball that does damage to everybody around it for 20 seconds and basically incinerates everyone". In real life, it makes sense, we're a technology based world now; our future depends on advancements and changes in technology. TES isn't a world like ours, they'd advance in alchemy, in magic, in fighting styles, and other methods. After the Dwemer blew themselves up due to technology, no logical person will go near it in fear of blowing themselves up and turning their entire race into ashes. And logical people tend to be the inventors who make that kind-of stuff.

TES doesn't exclude guns because it's trying really hard to be like every "fantasy world". The people who could have developed guns (but their religion was based around technology, so they used it for methods other than warfare) went too far and were killed by their own technology. Mages, Thieves, and Warriors would have no use for guns. Spells give the mages protection and a way to damage people, and the Warriors not only have a wall of metal to protect themselves but can have enchanted armor as well and a gun is too loud for a Thief to use while staying stealthy.

Magic defeats the purpose of guns.

well that′s kinda the problem, fans acting like anchors holding the series from going anywhere, it′s not like your copy of TES III or TES IV are gonna combust when TES V comes out.

We are prevent the series from going to the dump.

4th time PLAY FALLOUT 3.

well if magic is such a wonderful thing why are bows still widely used as ranged weapons?

Same reason why guns outclasses bows RL the can outclass magic, easy to learn and easy to arm everyone, it′s easier to train 50 soldiers to use a flintlock rifle then teaching them to cast fireballs. Heck since it′s clear they know how to magic enchant arrows they could easly enchant rifle shots and voala magic bullets (heck if you realy strtch it you could realy get creative and enter steampunk territory by having magic help guns work better beyond muzzle loaded singe shot guns).

So I can′t agree that guns are not of it′s use, if bows can still be useful then guns can to.

yeah because I′m not worthy of playing the holy, untouchable TES series with my dirty "new ideas"

Dude, I would be fine with it, but it just doesn't make sense in the world. I'm not going to lay down in front of the "sixteen-wheeler of change" because I don't want it to move forward. We have no control over what Bethesda does. However, it doesn't make any sense in the Lore. Who could have possibly made the guns?

Mages can use touch for up-close combat much faster than anybody can reload a musket. Warriors can cut somebody down much faster than somebody can load a flintlock. Thieves can sneak into your room with a knife and unless you keep a loaded gun next to you when you sleep, you're dead if you don't have a means of killing them.

In TES, there are people who can jump over small buildings, lift wagons with their thumb and index finger, cast a spell that can make everybody in an arena fall down dead. There is no use of having a gun against people like that. Guns were invented because humans IRL are weak compared to everything around us. A female chimpanzee is as strong as an athletic young advlt male human, and 3-4 feet tall. In relation to real-life animals, that would mean that humans in TES can be stronger than a horse pulling a wagon if they train enough. If a warrior had on heavy armor, and guns couldn't shoot through that (which guns back then couldn't), the person holding that gun would be dead if they were in a fight. If a person couldn't kill anyone they needed to with them, why would they even exist? Nobody would even want one.

Bows, on the other hand, had more range and were much more accurate than early guns. From standing across a small field, a trained person in TES could nail a person in the head with a bow, with an early gun you might miss them by 30 feet. Meaning TES Bows are more lethal than early guns, which is why nobody would use them. Guns were used by people for up-close battle, which they have spells, crossbows, and more importantly melee weapons for.

The reason people IRL switched to guns, is because they had to to stay ahead of the ever-advancing other nations. In TES there's no pressure to because they've got everything they need.

ehh...what? I think ya need to recheck some things, it′s quite well know it was the invention of the black powder gun that basicly single handedly spelt the end of the heavy armour knight just because the fact such a rifle could shoot threw a metal armour with ease, and when 20 peasants could suddenly lay down that kind of fire it became clear a charging row of knights where sitting ducks.


I still say in a setting where bows are still justified, guns can too, espcially if you think outside the box and think of ways magic could help guns, rather then the two compete.

I meant, if you want a Bethesda style sandbox game with guns, play Fallout 3, I do and I like as I've already said.

Sure they should develop some gunpowder eventually. Make it into flashbangs like in Thief... maybe even bombs like in Dragon Age. If nothing else, some damn fireworks. Killing from distance is done with magic, so it wouls make sense not to have rifles or cannons. Still, that HUGE dwemer ballista would be nice to see again.

Would be nice to have more dwemer ruins, and some crazies going through the debris and revealing alien technology, maybe not for player to use but to show it's there.

the problem is Fallout 3 has http://scraqetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Business/images-3/AK47.jpg kind of guns, I want http://www.historical-firearms.co.uk/acatalog/DX1201.jpg kind. See the Grand Canyon of a difference?


Just feeling your being a bit to generalising and unfair to the concept.

Crossbow is as far as I can see it happening in term of long range martial weapon. Doubt they would sudden find out about gunpowder, the concept of making firearm, and making it work all together.

well that′s asuming the game doesn′t make a time leap from the usual time period, plus if using a RL comparison it only took the Chinese a few Years after black powder was invented before they realised they could launch deadly stuff at enemies with it.

Magic = Firearms - At least that's how I think about it.

Crossbows would be fine with me, although M'aiq might make fun of us for using them.

Our World =/= Imagination Land. Technology leap in our world namely because we do not have any magic to assist use.

Also, at very least is 200 year after Oblivion. These trouble time included, but not limited to:

*Lots and Lots of wars
*Corruption all over the place
*No Empire to rule the land
*The world is still new, in a way, with things like Armors as one of the finest top tech.

With all this stagnation, there isn't any time to just sit down and suddenly come up with "firearms" with all this crap happening.

TES is a different world, and the rifle wasn't invented first.

Even so, people wearing Heavy Armor IRL didn't have a "Restoration" option. And all fights would be simplified down into "load, shoot, dead" no matter what, which would make the game boring. If you add it so that they can't kill anything in one hit, then what's the point of them since you can't make a gun do more damage than it already does? You couldn't advance in "Gun" skills.

Lore is against it anyway, that's my main reason. I'd love to play a fantasy game like TES with guns, but it doesn't make sense in TES. You're attacking everybody who mentions anything that you don't like. Which is funny because many of the people who want guns also "need" to try to force their views, I honestly think somebody's just looking for a power trip. If we didn't see windmills in Oblivion, and the most advanced thing was a gear that opens up a gate in Kvatch, how do you expect them to suddenly have an "Aha!" moment and make guns if their main research goes into magic and alchemy within 200 years?

They don't advance in technology in TES, they advance in Magic.

Again, I'd be fine with flintlocks and rifles if there was a logical reason to have them. But so far there really isn't since nobody really needs them.

The problem is if your proposing that the tech should advance that TES has guns it will continue to advance until TES has space ships and lasers.

As far as I would tolerate would be a secret Dwemer weapon, thats hard to find and fires pellets or something.

But if it is what you are proposing, we'll soon see the Impireal Legion dressed in Red coats and patroling in something like http://l.yimg.com/eb/ymv/us/img/hv/photo/movie_pix/columbia_pictures/the_patriot/patriot1.jpg.

My two septims on the subject of guns:

TES series is one of the few survivors, perhaps even the only survivor, of the DnD fantasy age of the 80s/90s. It's being changed all the time, and I like change, but as that survivor, I feel guns would start to ruin the experience, all nonsensical real life comparisons and overly-discussed lore reasons aside. Bluntly put, I don't want guns in the series because I don't believe they belong. Bethesda got another open-ended series, and it's full of guns. Why try to blur the line between the two series even more by adding guns to TES, even if they are only primitive ones? If they are primitive ones, they still are guns, and primitive ones absolutely svcked. There would be no point in using them as a primary weapon in any Elder Scrolls game, and I would like this fantasy series retain its level of machinery with only a few exceptions and twists here and there(Dwemer, for example). It's a magic and sword series, and once Bethesda goes down the path of guns, people are going to want them to get better and more diverse. I see no reason for it. Everything needs to have multiplayer and/or guns in it today, and I believe TES series should remain resistant to that stuff.

again if magic is so uber useful why are bows still around? if you insist that combat is always done in melee why are there bows? That′s my point, magic is not a all around solvant of all problems and not every combat is solved in melee, so guns are just as logical as bows for the same reason, as a way to damage at range without magic before going over to melee.