Short and Long bows should be in game, the short bows would be much less powerful and would take less time to draw, the long bows would be the epic uber huge bows that do massive damage but take long time to draw. Then we should have medium bow that simply is called bow, that is a beautiful mix of power and fast shooting. The damage per second would be just a bit better with the faster bows, but they would suffer from low damage per hit and low range, while the long bow is the one that easily kills a heavily armored marauder leader with 1 shot.

Only if your pc is windows 98 aged.
Because crossbows aren't slow for me.

Now, that's better!

Hopefully darts are more useful if they are reintergrated (maybe high enchantment capcity?) and maybe make them reusable for a long time.

Some of the darts in morrowind were just silly. You pick up a deaedric dart, the thing does some pissant amount of damage, but it's daedric nature makes it worth 4000 gold. Who in the right mind would throw that at an enemy? What enemy is worth 4000 gold to you?

Mankar Camoran meant that in real life, crossbows take a very long time to reload, but Morrowind broke the immersion by letting the player reload the bolt faster than it should.

Long bows and Composite bows will do nicely,cant say the same for short bows. :flamethrower:

Lolwut? The speed and range and damage of a bow depend on the thickness and types of wood used, not on how long it is, e.g. crossbows can be up to 5 times more powerful than longbows (effectively). Also, shortbows which are D-shaped (similar to a longbow) aren't used for war/hunting because they are very instable due to the forces acting on the wood (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiGdOvYSM7E from 8:35 onwards to clip #2 ,2:35).

In real life, I shoot a longbow which takes a 90 gram arrow about 180 yards (165 metres), but a horsebow can take the same arrow further, because of the fact that it is more efficient (i.e., more energy for the arrow per pound of force, i.e. more kinetic energy for potential energy). The reason the longbow uses such big arrows is because the full force of the bow is released upon the arrow right when you release the string, while a horsebow does this more gradually.

Uhm, no. That thing about penetration, simply wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Longbow#Range_and_penetration
There are also videos on youtube that shows this in a test bench - penetration is very rare occurance, but would barely scratch the wearer.
You need crossbows and heavier bolts to penetrate. Alternatively a very special bow (you use your feet) with very long and heavy arrows, but it's not a medevial thing.

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So if we have five different bow types and sizes, like
Japanese Yumi (huge) - http://medieval2.heavengames.com/m2tw/history/miscellaneous_history_folder/japanese_weapons_folder/kyudo.jpg
English Longbow (large) - http://poorfolkbows.com/elb7.htm
English Warbow (medium) - http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3284/2800778643_0f2f4e26c1.jpg
Mongol Composite Bow/Recurve Bow (small) - http://www.centenaryarchers.gil.com.au/images/niya_recon.jpg
Indian Short Bow (tiny) - http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VyekL5IHloE/TOAGE56nwZI/AAAAAAAABak/X1hmF2r8Wl8/s400/Indian-Holding-Bow-Arrow.jpg
then how would we deal with them?

The Yumi seems like asking for clipping problems, so lets just take that one out. The indian short bow does shows slight evidence of recurve although not as extreme as the mongol version, as does any pictures of short bows. So we can relabel the two smaller ones to short bow (recurve is part of making it small), suitable for mounted combat and small prey hunting. So as I see it, we have three possible bow types, and I suggest these features on them (more gameplay related than realism related):
* Long Bow - You need to be standing still, but it can penetrate armor (penalty 0). Long draw speed. Does weight up for missing crossbow (which *is* problematic to include).
* War Bow - Can be fired on the move, but not from mounted and does not penetrate armor (penalty -2). Fast draw speed, but still reduces stamina while aiming.
* Short Bow - Can be fired from mounted but does not penetrate armor (penalty -4). Fast draw speed, but no stamina penalty.

With these three variants we can add three "styles" reflecting English/Imperial (no recurve), Indian/Elvish (medium recurve) and Mongol/Dwarven (heavy recurve). Imperial design sacrifices draw speeds for power, Dwarven sacrifices power for draw speed, Elvish being the all rounder. These designs can well be culturally chosen, so they appear more frequent in some cultures than in others.

We can also have at least two different build styles: simple and laminated. The simple one doesn't offer as much power, but will need less repairs. The laminate one is somewhat more powerful (armor penalty +1), but will break down more quickly.

That's 3 types, 3 designs, and 2 builds giving us 18 different bows for different purposes. I'd like to forget completely about silver and ebony bows, that stuff hardly makes sense, but belongs more with the arrow designs. As for armor penetration, the secret lies in perks and arrow material. Without any perks, you'd need a daedric arrow to defeat a daedric armor with a Long Bow (penalty 0). If you get four ranks of perks, you can defeat daedric armor with a short bow (penalty -4 + 4 perks = 0), but you still have to use a laminate bow.

Finally, arrows degrade. You can craft basic arrows in the wild consisting of wood and stone - the most basic one - in three qualities; used, normal, and fine, depending on your crafting skill. For more exotic arrows, you have to visit a smith. You can choose to carry a bunch of arrows and not worry about degration at all, or you can carry less and choose to maintain them. Magic arrows (other than unique ones) loose their enchantment when used and degrade to a normal arrow of that material, but still in fine condition until you use it next time.

Does any of this make any sense?

I want more bows. I'll admit i wanted crossbows too,but have since changed my mind.
I think if i remember right,it was duke patrick's archery oblivion mod,that bethesda has implemented as default.
Can anyone confirm if thats the right mod.
A crossbow would go against some of that in my opinion,judging from the mod.
If indeed that is the right mod.
Just a bow will suit me fine "english longbow" :thumbsup:
I would also prefer throwing knives,stars etc to a crossbow.

Despite my thinking that they couldn't balance crossbows for the game without making them boring/inferior from a gaming perspective, people I think are complaining that crossbows are too high tech for the Elder Scrolls in general.

I do feel I have to point out that the timeline for the Elder Scrolls games (all those with a number, not including Reguard) crosses at most about 30 years. Skyrim is 200 years after the Oblivion crisis, and technology may have improved. New Dwemer ruins may have been discovered allowing for ideas to be taken and used by other races. I would not see it as immersion breaking from a lore perspective, and even if crossbows where made ridiculously powerful and too quick to reload I would still probably use a bow as, well let's face it; bows are the [censored].

Throwing weapons.

I feel the need as a medieval reenactor and a WEMA instructor/knight hobbyist to counter argue and be a pain in the *

Crossbows do not take that long to load really, I have 2 a siege crossbow (big huge monster of a bow) and a field crossbow (slightly lighter) the Siege crossbow with a jack (a pulley) only takes 20-30 seconds to reload; however Im not bothered if they dont get re-put-in



but can I ask why yumi? is your japanophilia really that bad that you need to ask about it! this is a land of big blond/ginger scadinavian blokes with axes do you think they'll pay good gold for flimsy katanas and fragile (and super-expensive) bamboo bows.

"*Only* 20-30 seconds" How do you think that will play out? You may get one shot on an armored opponent before he starts slashing at you. Keep in mind you typically can't reload a crossbow while moving either (as you often use your feet in some designs). Now imagine your weapon of choice is a crossbow, and you're facing a pack of wolves. Well, good luck and happy meal for the wolves That's the problem of having crossbows in the game. I'd rather just have some bows be slightly overpowered but then suffer other drawbacks, where the secret of penetration is in the bows penalty, skill perk, and arrow material.

well thats my Siege Xbow I wouldn't be able to fire it without leaning against something :happy: my field takes no time at all to load.

but maybe that puts a point to them for assasins: one powerful shot where you have to either hide and reload or dump the weapon.

I just found a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R9u2gjbw1w that has a repeating crossbow. Now it may seem advanced, but do remember teh ancient Chinese had repeating crossbows (though not very effective from what i hear) and even the Romans had them. And just imagine what a Daedric crossbow would look like *drools*

Mongol bow would be awesome, i was watching a program where they demonstrated that an arrow fired from a Mongol bow had 2-3 inches more Armour penetration than a long bow.

Not very effective! in the first Anglo-China war it was noticed that the bows though they looked daunting the soldiers were only killed by lucky shots to the eye, the bolts bounced off the soldiers heavy tunics.

Probably the same as the use of RPG-7s in todays middle east. They think "the bigger weapon will win", despite using an AT warhead that doesn't do much damage to a human. Well, a direct hit will do damage of course, but they only have like 3-6 bullets for a team If they use a frag warhead, chances increase greatly, but I guess they don't since the weapon becomes smaller and thus less intimidating. Maybe the frag warheads are harder to get, don't know. But they do have this feeling about "having the bigger gun" Maybe the chinese did too?

no not the same thing. they may look similar but there is a pretty big difference. long bows produce more tension on the string making them hit harder. the draw back is, is that the string is harder to pull back making them have a longer draw time to get the full effect of the string tension

short bows have less tension there fore are faster drawn but they have a weaker impact.




im sure they could have a better system by now for Skyrim. they should take longer to reload but they will hit ALOT harder than a long bow. they also have a greater distance range. they could be the essential sniper rifle of the game. what i used to do in morrowind was carry a bow and alot of arrows and then carry a cross bow and a few bolts. i would use the crossbow for when i needed that hard hit then resort back to the bow after firing one shot with the cross bow.



i would like to see:

long bow - hardest hitting, longest draw time of bows
short bow - weakest hitting, shortest draw time of bows
recurve bow - a mixture of speed and strength of the bows.... the middle of the three
cross bow - hardest hitting of all but slow reload time
repeater cross bow - fastest shot, but weakest of the full cross bows
cross bow pistol - one handed crossbow simi fast reload time (less tension on the string so easiest to pull back) only affective at short range within 20ft (close range assassins weapon)

for cross bows to be effective i would like them to be able to be pre - loaded so you can get that first shot off fast if you have too.

O.K., don't know much about bows, but I do know that the yumi was, in fact a very good bow. Now, onto what I DO now about, swords, why in the world would you call a katana "flimsy" they are one of the best and well made swords in existence. Do you wanna now how they classified katanas? By how many bodies they could cut through! There have been reports of five-body blades, that's 5 kills, going all the way through each body in one swing. Last time I checked, that isn't "flimsy".

They wouldn't put them in if they were pointless.

lol flimsy aye? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyO46RQhYkQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXRqmoFhcuE&feature=related

second video is the same guy but shows more of his skill than the blade strength. they are in Japanese so just bare through to be amazed

incredibly flimsy, Sharp yes and undoubtably well made but the blade is soft and has to be to make it so sharp I believe after a session against me or one of my team a katana will blunt it considerably.

(to save myself from the yumi fans)
the Yumi as a bow is a good bow (and its blooming amazing to see a workshop making them with the bamboo panels sticking out of the stock) but it has humidity problems (as most bows have) as in each individual panel is effected by moisture meaning constant care is needed on the bow to make it last.

yes i love them they are so fast and debastatings

Wouldn't mind seeing different models of bows and have some very interesting/powerful looking bows. For crossbows...sorry no. I never use to think about it in Morrowind but it's not very realistic to be able to load a cross bow so fast while moving. Cross bows are not easy to load and have a strong draw back if they have any type of power anyways.