Your right. Anything that shows the barbarism of The Legion that you don't like is clearly bias, in spite of the fact that your posts are chalk full of bias.
The Legion are the bad guys in this game. If it was made by Bethesda you'd be screaming about it, but because it's made by your beloved FO1 and FO2 creators, you try to justify the fact that the Legions are the clear bad guys in this game with laughable rationales and delusional justifications. If you want to support the Legion, fine, that option is available to you. But don't try and deceive yourself into thinking that the Legion aren't the bad guys in this story-and that's the way they were made to be. Notice the "Bad Karma" sign that pops up when you kill an NCR Trooper. Got news for you: When I put a Legion goof who's running at me with his lawnmower blade down, I get karma too. Just the opposite of what you get. The Legion were made to be the bad guys. That's why they were given all those atrocious actions such as crucifying innocent people and [censored] and selling woman. The justification you try to put on those things isn't there because the devs didn't have the thought to put it there, because they're horrible actions were never meant to be "somehow justifiably good."
The terrible things the Legion does are the terrible things the Legion does in comparison to House's terrible "thing" which is not caring for the people and the NCR's terrible "thing" which is *gasp* taxing people and protecting their roads.
That's what Legion's bad qualities have to hold itself up to. Their [censored] of woman and slavery versus the NCR's taxes. Those were the "cons" which were placed by the devs for each faction and you have to decide who you side with.

Once Caesar falls, The Legion will fall as is made clear by the precious lore you love so much from your precious developers.

no need to get all "militant" :toughninja:

When the game came out, and as it was described by developers, it was meant to be gray. If you've ever done a legion play through, the first thing that is said is that civilization has finally come to the wasteland. The legion justifies their actions, and in most cases you are made to speak with Caesar, I personally think that this is to hear him out, maybe come to a greater understanding of what it's about. As it has been said before, the legion is brutal, but it provides safety to it's citizens, this is the main flaw that the NCR has. Even for it's own soldiers the NCR does not provide support (Ranger Morales).

Really is pointless, the Legion supporters will cry and moan about bias etc but they'll never admit to the obvious truth.
Legion was implemented as the bad guys, the game lets you play as the bad guys though, not be the bad guys and somehow pretend they're the good guys. :S

That's right Doom, it's obvious House is the only good guy

Well duh :goodjob:

The developers of the game have said that all the main factions were grey, as a poster above pointed out. And many of the anti-Legion posters even conceded that without the Courier's intervention, Legion would have won the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, as they are more efficient.

If the Legion were supposed to be the bad guys, why did the developers spend so much time on writing brilliant speeches for Caesar, wherein he explains his beliefs. The ignorance and elitism of people who say the Legion are designed to be the bad guys is outstanding. The NCR are, in my opinion, corrupt and incompetent. But I can accept this as an opinion and not shove it down people's throats. Try doing something similar.

New evidence from Honest Hearts shows that the Legion would have had their asses kicked far worse after the first battle of the Dam if it were not for the Divide. NCR lost entire companies to storms that were on their way to defend the Dam. The Divide keeps NCR from sending troops into the Mojave from Northern Nevada and the Powder Gangers crippled the path from the West. So now NCR is forced to send troop the long way around the Mountains. Both caused by forces other then the Legion. In away the Legion got lucky. That and NCR's unwillingness to fight the war full force and insted settling for containment.

Really? I haven't played Honest Hearts, so I'm going purely on what I've seen during New Vegas.

It is the case. I could give more info but I don't want ot spoil to much of Honest Hearts for people.

One of the reasons i don't like HH, the devs just wrote in MORE evidence to undermine the Legions credibility, it would have been better if a Legion ambush had destroyed the NCR armies in the Divide, making use of the storms to kill the soldiers.

The NCR arent you Knight in Shining armor either, neither House or Yes Man

Even if people like to pretend that the NCR ending will be the "happy good ending", not everyone will have the same fate, like for example, The Followers or The Greath Khans, without mentinoning What Happens to Arcade if he help the NCR with the Enclave Remnants,

As for House and Yes Man

Well, the Followers aren quite happy after realizing that New Vegas is more chaotic under their control

no matter what you choose, there is no Happy Ending,

Yeah, the first thing I thought after reading Styles' post was "boy, they really don't like the Legion."

Still have two DLC left. Hopefully they will have something nice to say about the Legion. With Lonesome Road we get to meet Ulysses.

Still the Divide makes sense and is needed to explain why NCR can't just send troops in from New Reno and other Northern Nevada towns.

I am really sick of the bias towards the NCR the devs have, the gameplay contradicts the lore they write, then they retconn the lore in a DLC.

It is my understanding the Legion weren't even supposed to play that big of a role in Fallout 3 aka Van Buren. Still I agree, it would have been nice to see a Legion town and life outside of killing and enslaving.

Look on the Brightside. At least you have the option to join the Legion and help them. Future Games could still have it so the Courier helped the Legion win but I would not count on it <_<

I just wanted that, if they were going to put them in as a major faction, they should have made them as strong as a major faction, some sort of in-game credibility to their strength to withstand the NCR.

Well that pretty much says it all right there, nicely done my good man.


I still wish we could have seen a Legion town though, just so they could maybe have been shown in a slightly different light than we see them in the game. Maybe Ulysses can redeem them somehow, I dont know, but im with Elvis, man they REALLY dont like the Legion very much.

Of course all the main factions are grey in reality everything is grey to a certain degree. That doesn't change the unfortunate fact that Caesar's Legion is undeniably the most evil of the three main factions in New Vegas from the vast majority of contemporary viewpoints. No other faction practice slavery. The Legion is built around it. No other faction is horrendously misogynist. The Legion treats women like property. No other faction deliberately inflicts terror on the scale of Nipton. The Legion does it happily. No other faction crucifies people. The Legion does. No other faction forces human beings to fight to the death for the amusemant of spectators. The Legion does. No other faction employs child soldiers. The Legion does. No other factions soldiers wander around happily discussing the prospect of [censored]. Legionaries do. No other faction is basically a cult. The Legion is with everyone being indoctrinated from birth to revere Caesar as a god. No other faction massacres refugees. The Legion does. No other faction tolerates cannibalism. The Legion does.

Now if all this horrid evil was balanced out by them truly being the only effective force available to ensure order there might be a reasonable argument for backing them. Unfortunately this isn't the case. Both House and the NCR are perfectly capable of pacifying the Mojave so in the end it's a choice between what kind of society you want to see and it makes absolutely no sense to pick the Legion unless you support the horrible things they openly practice.



Saying Hegelian dialectics doesn't make your speech brilliant. Caesar's plan is insane. I don't know if the Legion were designed to be the bad guys or if Caesar's plan was intended to shock in me in the degree of lunacy it demonstrates but that's how certainly how they ended up in the end. As the worst by far of a set morally grey factions with no real reason to choose to support them which is probably why the vast majority of players don't.

And not just as Always Chaotic Evil Orks as people tend to put them, they are pretty much Lawful Evil

Yes but in at least rome Slaves were treated kindly and not like PACK BRAHMIN!!

I do not praise the methods, but it would be nice to have "bad guys wins" instance rather then just another "good endings", not like that the NCR or House are the good guys either, but oh well

To be far a future game could have the Legion win the battle of the Dam and therefore the Mojave. We could learn about the Legion trying to push into the NRC itself through the Rocky Mountains. Which forces the NCR to finally fight a real war against the Legion.

I love how the die hard NCR lovers ignored my pointing out that NCR once had slave labor.

When?

Back in it's early years IIRC.