Yes we know but at least our entire civilzation isn't based around it :rolleyes:

Edit yeah it was back when they first got started up.

Which makes it totally a-ok.

Unless I can see a source I really doubt this.

Because I'm quite sure they never have. There's no slave labor in Shady Sands in F1 no mention of it in the ending slides and in Fallout 2 there's a slave pen right outside the NCR border for slaveowners from the north to store their slaves until their business is concluded since the NCR doesn't permit slavery. You also first meet the NCR Rangers who are unofficially supported by the NCR government and dedicated to wiping out slavery outside the NCR's borders and will recruit you to liberate that slave pen.

So again minus a source I think you're mistaken on this one.

Exactly Ceasers Legion relies on it. They need the slaves to do all the work that they dont want to do. Does NCR use slaves? No. They get around perfectly fine without them to.

Even if Ceaser was going to have slaves he could treat them far better, like they did in ancient Rome then i probably wouldn't have such hatred for it.

Again source?

Because there is no slavery in Shady Sands and the entire Rangers questline in Fallout 2 is based around the premise that the NCR doesn't permit slavery and is even working to eliminate slavery outside their borders.

It is embarassing I lack a source,could have sworn I read it somewhere they used it. But if the NCR Rangers were so advocating of Anti-Slavery, they would have cut down the slavers right outside their walls without waiting for some Johhny-Come-Lately, aka The Chosen One to do their dirty work.

Edit: Technically Ace, NCR uses taxes to play 'protection racket'. IE if you don't want to pay our taxes, we'll kick you out and take your property. Not exactly a nice thing either, better than slavery, but not by much.

NCR did not have slave labour. They were just hypocritical about it. The Slave trader area just outside Shady Sands was tolerated but not run by NCR. The NCR Rangers are agaisnt Slavery. There is http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Free_the_slaves_in_the_slave_pen,_for_the_Rangers

And that makes it okay? The only one's who want to get rid of it are the then non-state affiliated Rangers; this is Fallout 2 where the NCR all wore combat armour and kicked ass, they could have easily destroyed it, then again this is the same NCRE who sub-contracted New Reno crime families to hire mercs to pose as raiders to bully Vault City into NCR annexation so they could get their hands on all the medical tech.

Well it's the standard RPG trope of the world waiting around for the player to show. Not exactly fair to treat it as proof that the NCR Rangers don't actually care that much about slavery. It's basically their major reason for existing in Fallout 2 and I could even swear there are random encounters on the world map showing fights between Rangers and slavers although I could be wrong on that.

I believe that the NCR will fall in a couple of decades and that once they do then all their land that they control will be split up and once again we're back to Fallout 1/2 where everyone is independent which will only raise the number of gangs, cults, raiders and corruption.
And House thinks about his city and the Mojave, not entire states.
Legion on the other hand I don't believe will fall in at least a century at minimum, and that's if the NCR goes on an obsessed killing spree on them.

So that's why I support Legion.
NCR is falling apart day by day and will soon enough crumble under their own incompetence, greed and inefficiency.
Once that happens then everything they will have worked for will be back to square one.
Humanity needs to move forward and not stagnate in the same anarchistic state that it's been in.
Legion is the only one capable of this, it won't be a pleasant society but it will be a necessity for the world to rebuild.
Every country has it's dark history, Legion is the dark history of this new world, a history needed to bring order to the wasteland.
Doesn't mean that I like what Legion does, I don't.
But if that's what necessary for the world to finally come together under one banner and prosper then so be it.

So would I rather that everything else is in chaos while one city remains prosperous?
Would I rather that the west coast has a decade or five of "okay" order and then have it crumble?
Or would I rather have a nation that can truly stabilize the wasteland for centuries to come and in time evolve to a more free society that's more accepting of personal beliefs?

Note: This does not mean that it's a "fact" that NCR will crumble, it's entirely my perspective of NCR. But it's for this reason that I support Legion. If NCR were more stable and could actually control their damn lands then I'd be on their side. Yet, they can't. So Legion is the only logical choice for me.

Gab, the Legion will fall shortly after Caesars death.

Nope. It just makes them miles better than the Legion. Again no faction in New Vegas is perfect. Hell I wouldn't even call the NCR mostly good. As you've pointed out they do many underhanded and immoral things but just like Mr. House they're certainly far better than the Legion which is the problem.

This.

And boy he don't got to much time left.

There is a world of difference from NCR actively involved in Slavers and them tolerating it. NCR still has their Rangers deal with the problem.

NCR does not do things guns firing. They try to do things with words and when that fails they try to do it covertly.

Even if Lanius takes over. The Legion falls. It becomes, as one user best put it, becomes little more than organized raiders.

Also, if memory serves, the Fort goes up in flames at the final battle, I'd be surprised if any of the higher ups survived it. (At least it did my House plays, I didnt look closely during my NCR playthrough.

Hey I'm an Enclave supporter and someone who helps the Legion out of revenge against the NCR, I'm all about being a bastard; I agree that they are miles better than the Legion - though I think a House NCR pact, if possible, would have been the best thing overall - and that sometimes outright underhandness and just crushing your enemies into the dirt - Colonel Moore - is the only way to survive, it's all about the human race.

Sometimes though I get the feeling that people try to gloss over some of the dirtier parts of the NCR from Fallout 2.

It won't, the legate will crown himself as the new Caesar, once he dies then the next will do the same thing.
And if Legion wins then Caesar will create the synthesis which is likely a new order for the Legion which will rule in place of him once he's gone.

Yeah but technically they still allowed it, even if the rangers did deal with it later on. And you could actually make a arguement that the powder gangers in NV aren't much more than slaves either.

Its the securitron army coming out of the Fort, so it only happens in House/Yes Man playthroughs.

Legate is not suitable to run the CL. Hes just a military commander and would be to war hungry to even worry about civil matters within the CL. It would fall apart after Ceaser dies either way you look at it. It might not be quick but it will happen.

They allowed it yes which makes them hypocrites. Still they deal with the problem (unless there is a mention that they didn't). They deal with it by getting the Chosen One to do it. IE covertly. I guess NCR did not want people to think they were anti-capitalist or something.

Powder Gangers were criminals working off their sentence, I think they were even getting paid. Even if they werent they were still working off their time. Some even want to go back to NCR and give up rather then go along with Cook. America used criminals for road work and so on (depending on the state). Some states still do.

I would rather be out working then be stuck in a cell with another person for most of the day every day for years.

Oh yeah i forgot about synthesis, the transformation into a new society.

Also let us not forget the van grafts quest with them and I can see why Caesar wouldn't want a super tech like robots and such because hey world ended that way

Yeah but that quest ends with the Van Grafts siding with NCR because NCR can pay quadruple what the Legion can and in the end for the Van Grafts, money is all that matters.

But again the trouble is the game doesn't really support this interpretation of the situation. While the NCR certainly has some issues there's no real support in the game for the idea that they're on the verge of collapse. Again just going off what the game does tell us the NCR seems far more likely to endure than the Legion. It's been around a lot longer, has weathered a lot more crises, isn't built around a single individual, and has actually survived multiple changes of administration post Tandi while still growing. There's no reason for the player character to believe that the Legion is a more stable government or more likely to endure than the NCR or House.



Not necessarily. Even if the NCR falls all the technology they've rebuilt and progress they've made still has a good chance of enduring in smaller communities. The Legion wants to march in and basically take away anything they deem makes people too reliant on it. There's no real support in the game that this is necessary or a good idea for humanity.



But humanity isn't stagnating and the Legion isn't moving forward. The NCR is wealthier, more technologically advanced and larger than at any point in it's history. House is determined to inaguarate a golden age of scientific progress and discovery.



Order has already been brought to most of the wasteland by factions like the NCR and they'd be able to keep doing it if the Legion wasn't stopping them. So if the game gives me an option to help remove the Legion as an obstacle why wouldn't I take it?



But there's no indication in the game anywhere that the Legion is necessary, which again is the problem. If you believe this that's great but the game doesn't support most of your opinions which is why the Legion is the "evil" faction. To actually pick them you have to disregard much of what the game says and just assume things it never tells you and we have no reason to believe is the truth. Or like evil.



But the NCR is pretty stable and in control of all of California, Baja California and parts of Nevada and Oregon quite comfortably. Why would I pick the Legion over them?