Judging by dialogue in game, I'd say yes. The game makes a point to show the Legion is the ruler of it's regions, but it still has citizens who arent in the Legion war effort, despite what unfounded claims NCR fans will claim. It's like saying all NCR citizens are in the NCR army.

Legion is Dark-shaded in the grayness scale

Would have been great if instead of going to the fort during render unto Caesar we could have gone to a major Legion city, would have been the perfect way to show us a different side to the Legion other than just what Caesar tells us when we talk to him.

They bought her to expand their family you big silly! That baby boy would have turned out to be a fine legionary! And Carla would have served her purpose well, maybe make her a little more humble :brokencomputer: but legion again does not seem to sell anybody, those people are integrated into the culture, just as Rome took slaves and integrated those slaves into the culture. They may kidnap people, but as the legion believes, it's better for them.

anology: My neighbor has a cat. I like cats. I feel I can care for and love that cat better than he can. I am therefore in the right to steal his cat. But these ain't cats. They're humans. And there's one simple unalienable right humans have: Freedom. No one should ever be enslaved. Period. Enslaving another human is as evil as it gets.

-Gunny out.

I FELT EXACTLY THE SAME WAY! You get to see how the NCR lives, where they live, what they do to their people, but you're transported to this isolated area to meet Caesar, there's only a handful of legion members who can actually dialogue with you. I have always wanted and will always want a more fleshed out legion! Maybe someday, the developers will hear my pleas through telekinesis or whatever they use....Here's hoping! :foodndrink:

We see many 'civilians' of the ncr though, Dale Barton isn't a Legion civilian, if you talk to him he's an independant merchant who prefers woking with the Legion.
Given the very nature of the Legion I find it highly unlikely that they actually have civilians at all, they would serve no purpose.
Caesar cares about conquest and only conquest. He has an army of fighters and an army of slaves to do the regular 'work'..
Every time you hear a LEgionary or anyone wearing the Legion skirt they talk about killing or enslaving.
I'm sure the Legion fans would like to think that back in Arizona there are civilians and actual honest to goodness signs of a Legion civilisation, but there is no basis for it, it doesn't actually even make sense when you think about what the legion is and what it does..

Erm, yes they do.. When Boone sniped his wife, he did it because they were bidding on her.. Like a fricken auction...

Well, I'm just saying it from a logic point of view. To memory, I cannot recall a single society in history that has ever not had noncombat civilians. Otherwise there's only Legion, which would make no sense to me logically. I'm sure it's more a Legion then Plebian-esque society.

SPOILERS below.



If they Legion really was what some of you made them out to be, they'd simply just have enslaved the entire town and moved on, right?

I see, so you would class this as Legion civilisation now?
Besides, I see a lot of people trying to justify their own beliefs about the Legion by using end credit scenarios.
You realise they have to have definite endings for multiple possible outcomes, it kind of comes with the territory of having a definite ending.
And unless the Legion winning the battle becomes canon it means exactly nothing?

Ehh, Lanius, which I consider non-canon legion, would do so. But Caesar is a bit more emporer and less killer than Lanius.

All in all, people just dont want to admit that the Legion can do what NCR can't.

Edit: Doom, the Legion could is a civilization, it's not a Pre-War styled one. But, brutal though it may be, it is by definition a civilization.

That's only for income...you make it sound like the legion aren't the nasty savage slavers that they are. They slave and soldier. That's it. Nothing too it

I fail to see what it is you think the Legion 'can' do?
They can forcefully take over places?
They can enslave and abuse the inhabitants of places?
Hmm?

.......How do I soldier?

Yes, examples nontheless indeed.
It doesn't actually show how the Legion have their own civilisation though, does it..
It basically simply shows how they don't always destroy another? (although it's only a possible ending and most outcomes have a good ending no matter what sie you choose, its just a gameplay mechanic)

No, when it comes down the brass tacks, according to Hanlon and Moore, anyone trained and living as a Legionairre is a force to be respected. I mean, they are a sliver from destroying NCR at the Dam, who can truly say who'd win at the Dam without the Courier? But my point is, to quote Hanlons point, 'Life expectancy in the Legion isn't long, you live ten years in Caesars army, you're a force to be reckoned.' The fact of the matter is, and House/civility loving aside, it's obvious the Legion as an army is more than enough to defend it's homelands. Before some mindless saluter of NCR goes 'DAY ONI EWS MACHETES!', that's not true, they use ranged weapons just as NCR does, however, they are trained to be able to rely on their raw strength if their gun fails. An NCR trooper would likely pee himself if he was cornered with only a knife in hand by a Legion trooper.

Except the Legion don't have that many in their military that actually 'have' these ranged weapons, they have no industry as they shun technology... Having a few regiments that are proficient at using firearms doesn't make up for the hundreds that run around pointlessly with machetes and throwing spears..

The Legion are a force to be reckoned with because Caesar has drummed it into them that they are worthless and its better to die than not to serve him..
Tbh most of the Legion could actually be compared to a bunch of brainwashed Gecko's.

Technology as in computers, robots, power armor, blah blah blah.

Anyway, they are highly profficient with guns, I see alot of Recruits armed with Caravan Shotguns and Cowboy Repeaters, I even see the occasional .357 Magnum. Again, as I said, they don't abhore guns, they are merely trained to not rely on a gun alone.

Making soldiers and slaves is what they do. Play the game, you might understand it.

Thats the game trying to keep up with your level..
Look around at the fort, they have a blacksmith ffs, and grinding wheels for their machetes, they don't have any workbenches or reloading benches and its meant to be their main staging area for a huge battle.
Do the math.

NCR is guilty of both in it's history, so we can't pretend they have always been democracy and do gooder with no bad history.

Edit: As much as I'd love to carry on in this interesting debate, it's 11:38 P.M. Time for me to go off to bed. xD

No? That would be quite stupid. Why completely eliminate a location that can provide tribute in the future? Better to take what you need and what the town can afford to spare and otherwise leave them open for business. It also fits with Caesar's ridiculous idea of creating a synthesis. Not wiping Primm off the map in no way refutes any reasonable argument against the Legion.

Also even with Caesar in charge at the end a whole lot of enslaving does go down in the Mojave.

Hardly to really estimate the Legion's arsenal. Gameplay is not factor in this due to several reasons.

And they don't actually shun technology, they shun the reliance on technology.




Just making a point that the Legion are perfectly capable of doin something else than simply enslaving or wiping out towns.

No, they shun technology.. Well apart from Caesar himself apparently.. The hypchrisy of having his own personal auto-doc when his soldiers aren't even aloowed so much as a stimpack..
And it's not hard to estimate the Legions arsenal, at all.. They have what you see, a few veterans with some good weapons and the rest using melee weapons.
Or you could pretend like they actually have factories etc that make their own weapons etc, even though they don't have anything that even remotely resembles this at the fort, where you'd most expect it..