They were calling themselves the Enclave in Fallout 2 anyway:

"You live so that the Enclave will survive."

I don't take that to mean anything more than that, Enclave is just an interchangable term taken on. Of course it was the name that the Shadow Government had on their business cards, they just then started calling themselves the U.S. Government just because I guess. In any event Eden still refers to himself as both President of the United States and that the Enclave is the United States Government.

Your just doing that on purpose. Maxson would have a biased negative opinion on the American government and not, of course, on the organisation he went on to found.

The dead Ed at the gate, the mutant in the library, and the dead Vault dweller in the Military base prison cell; possibly others. I didn't know about the cut content.

** Tell me... Does anyone here not believe that the Enclave would have destroyed the world if they had not been destroyed themselves?

Why is he a reliable account and not Meyers? Cause you like Maxson and not Meyers?


So gaining total power and survival doesn't make sense?

If the Official united states government as you see them was only trying to survive then why the Vault experiments? Why kill thousands of your own people. Also why then plan to kill eveyone that survived the Great War?

I give up. I really don't know how I can explain this any better.

Meyers isn't giving information about the specific operation or history of the group is he? Meyer's is just saying "they are a bunch rich nutjob bastards." He hates the organization, is his statement biased or unbiased?


Power doesn't make sense when they had much more power in the pre-war world. In the post war world they are living on a cold, metal Oil Rig in the middle of the ocean. So much for glorious power.

Survival is a human instinct. Power is not.

Because they wanted to figure out a blueprint to a perfect society? Because took the chance to get some otherwise unobtainable research data. Because Tim Cain [censored] up big time with a pointless M Night Shyamalan type plot-twist? The Vault Experiments don't have a reason anymore since Van Buren was cancelled, in that even to call the Enclave a shadow government would be undeniable and we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's anyone's best guess anymore and any reason why it was done isn't likely to be given now. Amoral people seeking somekind of research I suppose. Given that not all of the Vault's killed their inhabitants anyway why did the Shadow Government make them?

We have no idea of the immedaite post-war years. We know that whatever national plan that was put in motion didn't suceed, the Germantown Logs are proof enough of that - supply shortages, desertion, radiation and of course in-experience in the scenario. We know from Eden that all of the CoG bunkers that were in communication with Raven Rock fled to the West Coast decades after the war. Maybe they reached the Oil Rig with horrifying stories about the mainland, maybe they wanted to protect what they had, in any event a justification was cooked up and the Enclave didn't do anything until the 2170's when they were horrified by the remnants of the Master's Army rampaging through California. We see it in the Vaults, fear of the outside as a natural consequence of such a sheltered environment; combine that with pro-American patriotism and paranoia and you get the contemporary Enclave.

As for the Project? The Enclave are a paranoid, extremist and reactionary people whom have wrongly self-deluded themselves over decades into thinking that they are doing the right thing.

So do you have any ideas on what the Shadow Government's goals were after-all? Even a speculative hypothesis?

Power makes alot of sense. If they survived and the other parts of the government survived, they couldn't call themselves the government, now could they? Two American governments doesn't work. The Official Government surviving would be equal to or greater than the Enclave.

So the Cabal had to remove the official government, so they could use the COG to form the new administration as well as remove any possible threat.

And Meyers is giving information about the Enclave. The problem is you don't like that information.

And thus completely eradicate the country they were going to have power over, leaving themselves huddled on a cold Rig in the middle of the ocean? That's a terrible plan.

If the shadow government could do all the things you claim they did, they had all the power they could ever want within the United States.


He's giving his opinion on what the Enclave is. And his opinion is not necessarily fact.

I think that was the idea though... I mean if they had gone unchallenged (and undefeated)... the world would have basically died.

It works if their plan wasn't about trying to save anyone. We don't know what the Vaults were for remember? So we don't know the full extent of their plan, but what ever it was must have been worth the Vault Experiments and then killing everyone in America.

Were as if they were the Official government they would want to save everyone in America, not kill them. They wouldn't want to turn the Vaults into experiments. They would have done everything in their power to save everyone they could.

So they were going to have power by killing the people they would have power over if they killed off the real government?

It just doesn't add up. They had wealth, money, and power in the pre-war world. All that would be eradicated with the start of nuclear war.

What good is power if you can't enjoy it?

They're nuts; xenophobic like nothing the Brotherhood ever were.

So they were going to rebuild America by killing everyone in Fallout 2?

The Enclave were happy living on the Rig. They survived and managed to wipe out the American government, their only real threat. They then had all the time they needed to carry out whatever their real plan was that involved the Vaults.

By reestablishing authority and wiping out mutations and factional infighting yes.

Edit: Alright I'm taking a break from this debate. I''m guessing we're just going to end up agreeing to disagree anyway.

We're talking about the Pre-War Enclave's plan to kill everyone for power, until to have killed everone and be no better off

The captain of the rig leaves it up to the CO to make an opinion about the Enclave. Go see for yourself. That isn't very venemous.

He is also pretty knowledgeable fellow. He knows about the Vaults and what the CO needs for the rig and where to get them. Navarro and Vaults.

He says what they are, that he figured out what they te, and he left because of what he found out. Sounds noble to me, especially when he tells the CO to go see for himself.

And, the people you can talk to on the rig, pretty much fit the mold the captain described.

So how is the captain untrustworthy?

More importantly, where did he come from?

Yeah. That's when they move back onto the mainland and start rebuilding things properly. Or they just kill everything and then go back to the Rig?

He was an Air-Traffic Controller at Navarro.

And it took them over 164 years to get off their ass to start restablishing order? Wouldn't it have been easier to rebuild America by having the Vaults work the way they should have? 122 thousand or so people working together with that is left of the survivors to rebuild. That seems more realistic than making a bunch of Vault experiments and then running to a Rig, doing nothing for 164 years and then deciding to kill everyone.

Discuss ideas in this thread; http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1364939-fallout-4-speculation-suggestions-and-ideas-thread-59/