Completely agree of course.

They use the COG to become the legal government after the Great War. They weren't before hand.

You can bring up the none-canon going into space thing. That applies to them being the legal government before as well as after theories, so I don't get your point.

If the whole United States government was the Enclave before the Great War than they would have come up with something better than Control Station Enclave wouldn't they? That is the biggest flaws with your theory. You don't support the Enclave coming back as a major power, but your theory opens the door for it. That the Enclave were the government before the war. All that power and wealth they could have had bases all over the united states. Why not they were the government right?

The Shadow Cabal theory suits what we already know about the Enclave. It has been around since Fallout 2.

Well Vault 8 was a control vault, too. So, I think there are 9 other control vaults out there, so maybe we will learn more about them.

I pretty much take a control vault as being that it should work, but sometimes crap happens, and there is no messed up experiment going on.

There are 17 control Vaults out there some place. True the Vault 13 overseer could have gone insain and started something alot like the Stanford prison experiment.

1. You act as though the United States Government and the Enclave are separate groups. We don't believe they are.

ie. "The whole United States Government was the Enclave"

2. Why is Control Station Enclave an unworthy base? Its literally has the industrial capacity of a small city.


Then why didn't the actual United States government do this? Why did the actual United States government not survive?

If your theory is correct, then the legitimate government should be all over the United States correct?


Which means they would have undoubtedly had to have had "people" in officially elected positions. Some of them were undoubtedly corporate officials and non-elected executive agency leaders, but they still would have been members of the government at some capacity.

Unless you assume that the "legitimate" government handed emergency powers over to a bunch of shadow figures.

Why do they even call themselves the Enclave if they were the pre-war government? Why not just hi, we are the government.

This , I would love to see them in fallout 4 but maybe about the size of the outcasts at most the enclave shouldn't become a major power ever/any time soon.

They do.....

Richardson says "we are the United States Government."

Eden says "the Enclave is the United States Government."

Autumn says "when you see the Enclave, you see the United States Government."

I would say that's because they never existed before the war. And even if there was, Shadow Governments aren't supposed to be actual organisations, they're alliances of corrupt people.


No it doesn't it applies to exactly the opposite, the legitimate government wouldn't plan to abandon the planet that's insane; it was to tie right into the X-Files rip-off, corrupt people trying to save their own ass from the apocalpyse. Except that your right, it's non-canon and doesn't exist any longer and thus the entire pay-off for the Vault Experiments and the Enclave's past.


Because Eden's specifically mentions that decades after the war most of the CoG facilities that he serviced as a communications relay were evacuated for a location on the West Coast.

“The ZAX series of computers was introduced in the years preceding the war. The government installed many of them to help automate various systems. This facility was designed for Continuity of Government, in the event that a catastrophe occurred. My terminal was installed to oversee the basic functions of the facility, and to act as a relay between other installations around the country. Data was acquired, anolysed, and stored. In the decades following the war, I watched as the remnants of the Government retreated to the West Coast."

So get ready for this, thank you Fallout 3.


So in any event, either the Enclave - as a Shadow Government - no longer exists as it recalled all of the personnel in other bunkers to the Oil Rig - hence they had legitimate authority - or the less obfuscated and more logical answer that the Oil Rig was part of CoG and after the war when all was lost the Government regrouped and formed what would be known as the Enclave - the name a colloquialism taken from the name of the installation they resided Control Station: ENCLAVE.

Courtesy of Fallout 3. President Richardson never refered to it as the Enclave.

1) The Cabal theory is that member of the United States government worked with powerful civilians such and military people and worked towards their own goals. After the Great War kills the most of the Government, those within the Enclave that were members of the Government use the COG to form the new Administration.

2) Control Station Enclave is great but why not 5, 10, 20, 100 Control Station Enclave like bases? Why not have entire armies put away in some base? Why would the Government of the United States plan to survive the war be hide on a rig and do nothing after it?



Cause the Enclave could have had something to do with killing them, like Vault Zero. A Vault that had a lot of budget cut backs such as 12.6 billion being cut to 2 billion. The Vault was designed to fail if you think about it. High ranking government goes there, it fails and they die.

The real government would have done everything in their power to rebuild as soon as possible. The real government had the vaults. They had 122 vaults all across America with Vault Zero controlling all of them. They had their plan. They had their bases.

The Enclave only had Control Station Enclave and they didn't do jack [censored] for 164 years. Doesn't sound like the real government to me.

Because the Enclave eliminated as much of the true government as they could, possibly during the chaos of the nuclear war.

Styles has a interesting theory on Vault 0 about the legit govt and the Enclave.

Also, I will bet you, in a future FO title, we will meet a faction with ties to the actual US Government.

Lt. Andronicus and The Enclave. You are using quotes all long after the Great War to show the Enclave are the United States Government.

We aren't saying they aren't the United States Government now. We are saying they weren't the United States Government before the Great War. Some Enclave were members of the Government and after the Great War they used the COG to form the new administration.

The Whole United States government weren't the Enclave. Vault Zero and the other 122 vaults was the official government plan to rebuild America. The Enclave got their hands on that and [censored] with it for their own goals which we don't yet know.

You're right, when you make more stuff up the Cabal theory does make more sense. The Enclave - of course - murdered the rest of the U.S. Government at Vault 0 - whom elected to be put into cyrogenic stasis as opposed to lead the country after disaster. So, even by your theory the real government decided that freezing itself and waiting [censored] out was a more logical alternative.

EDIT: That's actually an idea, the people in Vault 0 were cowardly fools whom the Shadow Government Enclave murdered so that real people could assume authority; except that would give the whole debacle creedence so I don't consider it true. Didn't Vault 0 have Game Designers and porm Stars in it too?

I would suggest that it was not a premeditated plan. Rather it was simply the unintended result of the Great War. The pre-war United States government was, after all, step-in-toe with the values of the post-war Enclave.

If Reagan's COG government had taken command following a nuclear war, would you say they planned this out?



See. Mr. Enclave's post.


The entire United States Government killed off in one Vault? Not to mention a Vault with the capacity to produce a massive robotic army.


Which involved what exactly? What could the "real" government have done when faced with the horrors of the post-war world?

You assume that the logistical capability was there. It wasn't.


Sounds like an institution bent on preserving the status and sovereignty of the United States government above all else.

Sound like a COG government to me.

Well, seeing how I just finished FO2, the Enclave as a group, not a thing, ie the rig, is mentioned several times.

If you want examples, I will give. They claim the US Govt, but they also identify themselves as The Enclave.

Doing nothing for 164 years, and only having one, then two, and then RR as bases are sonething Styles and I do disagree upon though.

Anyway, just because they are trying to sound legitimate, doesn't make them the actual pre-war govt. They just took power, because at the time, they were in the position and had the means to do so.

Not everyone was going to be frozen in Vault Zero. There were going to be bars and hunting areas. They weren't going to stay frozen forever. They were going to wake up after about 10 years and start rebuilding.

So you point out the porm star thing in an attempt to discredit my theory. It only helps it. One more sign the Enclave were designing Vault Zero to fail.

So why have this shadow crap at all if it has absolutely no bearing on how things are in the games, you're all creating a purely hypothetical entity which doesn't have any cause to exist.

Wait a minute... if this is all just to tie into Vault 0 mnaking canonical sense then I have my own queries on that too.

Which doesn't mean anything frankly.


How exactly? How exactly did they manage to get rid of the entire United States government and assume control over just about every major military project and operation that the U.S. was involved in before the war?

Probably by being the United States government.

Because they're a shadow government, they're goals are secret, they're methods are secret and so is everything else. They have seemingly limitless authority and power in the United States, rigged the whole Vault Programme so that they could then gain legitimate authority after the war. Does it not make sense? You see by killing everyone else one guy amongst them becomes Acting President, then he gives promotions to everyone of his friends to so that they hold all the power and then they... wait around on their Oil Rig, maybe call some people over decades after the war and wait around some more for something to happen... I guess... we have the power!

Project Safehouse was the Governemnts plan to survive the Great War and help rebuild America. They build Vault Zero to control it.

The Enclave which was a Cabal of powerful people, civilian government and military had their own plans to survive the great war. They messed with the Vaults, caused Vault Zero to fail and built Control Station Enclave with the money they took from the government, such as the 10 billion cut from Vault Zero. After the Great war they used the COG to form the new administation.

I find it funny that Lt. Andronicus and The Enclave don't support the Enclave coming back as super power again, yet you support the theory that lets that happen. If they were the official govenment before the war then there could be bases all over the united states and the world. Why not? every memebr of the pre-war government were Enclave and all in on it.

The name Enclave itsle suggests a small group.

Of course! Brilliant!


Which, by proxy, means that if you don't believe them to be the government it allows for the legitimate government to come back right? After all they must have bases all over the country right?

Also do you forget Eden's dialogue? He says there were bases all over the country and that they rallied in the west. If anyone would know this it would be him, the AI tasked with coordinating the communication between these bases.


How exactly did they do this without being the government?

The Shadow part explains how the Vaults went from being built to save people to [censored] up social experiments. Also this theory has been around since Fallout 2 and I am the one adding Vault Zeo into it. Which BTW is canon thanks to Bethesda.

The theory makes far more sense then the idea that the Pre-War government were all members of the Enclave.

Lt. Andronicus and The Enclave, you guys support the Enclave not coming back as a major power yet you support the very idea that can be used to bring them back.

"Every single memebr of the United States government were enclave, therefore there could be Enclave all over the world, on the moon even!" That is the reasoning behind your theory.

That's not our theory at all, because we don't believe the Enclave was a tangibly separate pre-war group from the United States Government.


Actually that's your reasoning as to why you think our theory is wrong. I don't recall us ever making such a silly claim.

The Enclave are the remnants of the United States Government which survived the Great War through facilities such as the Rig and various other installations around the country. In the decades following the Great War, these individuals came together once again on the Rig as stated by Eden.

Your theory involves the rest of the Government being killed off in one Vault without even a whimper.

The Enclave doesn't have access to everything. They have Vert plans, and they develo new PA on the rig.

But other projects, they have to actually find them. Some may be easier to find than others, depending on what records survived. But, they don't find FEV base(mariposa) until 10 years after FO1. Why not 10 years after the great war? Cuz a lot is lost.

If Enclave knows of every experiment, why not raid Vault 0 from the start? Or snag the Helios death ray? Why not take over the Sierra Depot? Cuz they don't know everything.

There is no reason to call youselves Enclave if you are the legit govt, so ya, it does mean something.