I disagree because I have redone the lod on Hoover Dam (thanks to zilav) and also used normal armor for the NPCs, so the limit are clearly not the NPC armor (but yes Obsidians Legion armor could be optimized a lot too, which I actually did for the armorfixes for the body replacer I have on nexus). Skyrim as all TES games has a different armor concept as FO3 & NV. Here are bodyslots better used. Nice channel to watch if you want to know how maxed NPCs look like in Skyrim. But yes sorry XBOX and PS3 nothing for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SYNuT-TMW8

Gladly will be FO4 not on the old generation on consoles .

It wasn't the engine itself that made large battles wonky, just that NPCs in Bethesda games are taxing by design. They use roughly the same artwork, skills, attributes, and inventory system available to the player character, in addition to complex AI packages that account for a lot of different things; doing this in addition to all of the physics-enabled clutter items, corpse ragdolls (which are even programmed to despawn in huge battles). That's a huge reason why they trimmed down the amount of different armor pieces characters could wear, and put large settlements within a separate worldspace. With the new generation of consoles, though, they have way more freedom to up their ante, though, and the engine can handle it just fine; they've already shown us a layered armor system, and they've talked about a lot of buildings and the main city being a part of the contiguous exterior, rather than separated into their own cells/worldspaces.

Well, they made it a BGS game. It's not nearly as stat driven as the originals.

That's sort of like if CDProjectRed took over the Elder Scrolls franchise from BGS. Of course, Todd Howard would say it was a great game, but it wouldn't begin to scratch that TES itch for most fans. I like a lot of developers out there, but I wouldn't trade Bethesda Game Studios for any of them. So again, I completely understand where he is coming from.

Gizmo - You are very quick to insult other people, then take total offense that others call you out on it.

Example- Danny has gone on record as playing ALL the Fallout games, yet you knee jerk state he is a Fallout wannabe who OBVIOUSLY never played anything before Fallout 3 because he dared to be excited.

And before you start insulting me - I played all the Fallout games except BOS when they released. I PREFER the way Bethesda does it. The simple truth is you cannot comprehend anyone liking the new way.

In your little world if someone disagrees with you it is because they are a causal who could never understand " the real RPG hrrhrhrhrhr"

Sad, really.

The limit for NPCs in the old games was not the engine. It was the need to make it work on the consoles. Same reason that a unpatched version of New Vegas has hundreds more NPCS ten the patched version. They really tried to make it bigger but that 512MB was really keeping them from realizing their desire.

If you play on PC you can download the mod that puts a lot of the NPCs back in the game.

This is the truth and i could not agree more.

That sounds like typical BoS

I am with Gizmo. FO was/is perfectly fine in first person. There are plenty of RPG's in the first person that are excellent. No need to return to isometric pov. However, turning FPO into a shooter, rather than improving the RPG elements, is quite disappointing.

I like FO1, FO2, Tactics, FO3 and NV all for mostly different reasons. They all have strong and weak points and I am fine with them. Something like a perfect game doesn't exist imo. (except I make it myself )

I strongly disagree, Combat has to be improved. Fallout 3 is unplayable without VATS. New Vegas is slightly less so but is still reliant on VATS due to poor gunplay animations. If we Compare Fallout 3/New Vegas to Borderlands 2, no contest Borderlands 2 had better gunplay/combat. Now does that mean I want Fallout 4 to be more like that game, no but I do want Gunplay/combat to improve where I don't have to use VATS as a crutch but more of an asset. I still want RPG stats to play a role but I don't want it to be like Morrowind where I have to stand around and swing my sword for 5 minutes at a Mudcrab because my sword skill is low, I should be able to hit it regardless of stats which I hope Fallout 4 does.

Everything that I've heard about the combat feels better then FO3/New Vegas, that is a good thing. Bring on the Improved combat.

Spot on.

I find it interesting that there are people who have trouble with gunplay in FO3 without VATS. I play mostly complete without it. But maybe its a controller thing (I am on PC and always use mouse and keyboard).

Definitely a Controller thing, FPS's are almost always going to be better with a keyboard.

It's amazing how seemingly contrary to everything I had hoped for things are going with this. Stuff getting gradually off from the left, bit by bit. It's almost like 2008 again, but without the uncertainty from not really knowing what to expect.

Gotta wonder is it really like that, or are they just focusing on presenting everything on that side of the scale.

I like how I can't answer a question from Gabriel77dan about what was implied in the interview without being insulted. No one seemed like they were answering his question when I started typing that overview up, but of course this warrants face-palming? Wow, there are some seriously disrespectful people on this board. Really makes me wonder why I still show up to this site.

Truly an impressive reply.

Your great arguments have convinced me his post was garbage.


......


You are with Gizmo allright.

I dont see how making real time combat less clunkier makes it less a rpg, plus the argument kinda fall flat as the perk chart clearly shows beth do put focus working on inproving rpg elements.

I hope bethesda bans a few of these endless complainers.

They are hurting the creative discussion when people like you get tired of getting insulted and hearing the same complaints over and over

Indeed.

a side effect of beth having decided to make a fallout game they way they want to, rather then what a fanbase wants them to.

Which I personally applaud and would hope more game devs follow beth example.

You're in for one hell of a time, no doubt.

judging by what I seen so far, one hell of a fun time indeed.

To add to this, many table-top rpgs I've played (Shadowrun, WoD, and others) make it clear that dice are predominantly used to show chance and that if dice aren't needed because of excellent role-playing, then don't roll any. This applies to the VG RPGs as well, the randomly generated number was used to show chance, but as games tech improves, improved abilities can interact with personal action to create a similar result as an RNG. Many local table-top game designers I know, minimize rules to maximize role-play.

Additionally, since everyone knows BGS is not likely to go back to isometric gaming, what's the point of bring up a point of view that is currently derailing a discussion thread about the limited info we got out of the reporters at Gamescom. I just don't understand how this is relevant discourse any further for this topic, we all know what the game is likely to be like, it just seems like it's off-topic and borderline flame-bait or trolling.

Maybe they should've gone straight for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHZJ0de_I4Q. Now that is fluid. And nothing to hinder the players fun.

A couple things in the video that concern me are the looting and shooting. Yes, shooting needed some help, but I do not want it to become CoD or HALO like. The large intense battle they describe reminds me of an FPS, but I will reserve final judgement for when I play. I just wanted to note that it worries me. One of the reasons I love 3 so much is the feeling of isolation, it will be hard to replicate that if there are huge numbers of people in the world.

Looting also sounds worrisome. Why would I know the contents of a crate or body without looking inside? I hope it is a general thing for bodies and not actual crates. For a body it makes some sense as you can see what they are wearing and or have dropped, but rifling through their pockets should be the only way I would find anything more than what is in plain sight. Same for a crate, if it is open I should see what is inside. If it is closed I should have to look inside the box to know what is in there.

I am still super excited for the latest installment into Bethesda's Fallout, but these are the first things I can think of that strike me as a negative in my book.