The thieves guild in OB wasn't really evil per-say. They were pretty much robin hood. Only stealing from people who could afford to be stolen from, not killing, etc.

Now the Dark Brotherhood, that was evil for evils sake. Killing people because you feel like it. Holding no remorse. Plus the "cult" feel of it makes it feel a lot more awesome.

I don't normally have evil characters, usually only one, but if there were more than one joinable evil faction, would be awesome.

I'd be extremely happy with just three.

-Necromancers or the like for mages
-Stereotypical viking, Pillaging, destroying, [censored](maybe not that), etc for warriors
-Assassins guild for stealthy characters

That'd add way more play time and more incentive to play more than one evil character.

I like where you are going with this.

A Necromancer faction is confirmed, but we don't yet know if they will be joinable or not.

With respect to the warriors, I believe in Bruma there were reports of infamous Skyrim bandits. (or maybe that was just one of my mods)

It was chaos for chaos' sake.


Well, the last one is covered since the Dark Brotherhood is making a return.

Honestly, I'd rather see Necromancy be part of a normal mage organization. It's a cliche for Necromancers to be "evil" or to be the bad guys, but not all Necromancy was like that. It was even allowed in the Mage's Guild before Traven went and ruined everything.

Stereotypical vikings sounds interesting, but I don't know how well that would work in practice.

Actually they were not killing for killings sake, they were hired assassins. Its not really evil either. They are performing a service. A service thats legal just past the border.

Not sure I entirely agree with you about the Thieves Guild. They were thieves. They broke the law. Of course, they tried to justify this to you with self-righteous rationalisations. You might expect them to do that. On the other hand, there were a lot of people in Cyrodiil who disliked the Thieves Guild. They saw the Thieves Guild as a threat to their livelihood (and often these people didn't strike me as especially bourgeois). If you were a member of the Thieves Guild, you got more of that Robin Hood impression. But that's what you should expect. If you weren't a member of the Thieves Guild, the impression was much more ambivalent.

This is not to say that Oblivion couldn't have been more nuanced in its presentation of organised crime (Morrowind was far better in this respect, I think), but I think it's unfair to say that Oblivion's Thieves Guild were just Robin Hood writ large.

Yep, I'm glad someone pointed that out.


Instead of Good/Evil factions, why not write the faction's with multiple outcomes or paths. For example, in the Fighter's guild you could pursue Ruthlessness or Valor (Or both, and just be a true mercenary), by accepting certain contracts or performing existing ones a certain way. Just a quick example, in the Tongue-Toad contract for the Fighter's guild, the "Valor" path, would be Allowing Tongue-toad to leave town, while Ruthlessness would be just killing him.

Mage's guild could be divided through Power or Knowledge. Power by any Means, or a simply a seeker of knowledge of the arcane Arts?

Thieve's guild would be Greed and Empathy. Steal from anyone and everyone, or steal from those who have too much as it is, and use it to uplift the poor. (Oblivion/Robin Hood style)

I was never a fan of "Good" and "Evil" Labels, I like motivation better. Ruthlessness can be a virtue for success, while Valor can be detrimental, but they define a character more effectively than Bad/Good.

They are hired assassins, but the nature of worshiping Sithis demands blood in order to fuel the chaos that contrasts with the stability promoted by other gods. Sithis demands their nature to be assassins, while their work as hired assassins simply benefits whoever is willing to pay them and earns them a steady income.

Back to the OP:
I've been saying this same idea for a while now, and I do think it would be a good idea to have some polar organizations. The breaking apart of the Mages Guild into the College of Whispers and Synod really makes this easier to do (though possibly harder considering both are said to operate within the bounds of Imperial law. The speculation is simply that one is secular while the other is religious). The Dark Brotherhood is a good evil counterpart to the Thieves Guild (which, though illegal, have a Robin Hood level of morality about them), and all that is needed to counteract the Fighters Guild is simply a mercenary group with no respect for the laws or morality (like the Blackwood Company in Oblivion).

I also had the idea of some guilds that start out morally ambiguous, and then some dark secret is revealed that forces you to make a choice, stay with them or defect to a rival group that you had assumed was bad (but is proven otherwise).

And then I'd just like a return of something like Morrowind's Great House system, where you have groups that really have no moral alignment but hate each other for the sake of competition and faction rivalry.

Maybe I was wrong, but the DB sounds more evil than the Morag Tong.

If I'm right, anyone could take out a contract with the DB for any reason. But with the Morag Tong, it had to be justified. I may not be right, my memory is a bit hazy.

Edit: Ninja'd
Proditus pretty much explained it.

I agree and I'm hoping we will see at least two or three different and perhaps opposing factions for thieves or stealth characters, and just as many varied factions for mages, warriors, etc., each faction with its own unique, interesting history and culture, with opposing goals and points of view, rather than simply -

generic Mages guild
generic Fighters guild
generic thieves guild

Can you imagine instead 6 or 7 different joinable factions, each with awesome quest lines as interesting and cool as Whodunit?

That was a mod, ooo.

@op, I love stealthy characters, who turn evil usually(it's fun being bad) so I would love more evil like factions to join. Db quests are so fun, and having different quest lines with that same flare for wickedness would be great! Count me in!

As a writer, I see "Polar" organizations as incredibly lazy. No intelligent entity is evil for it's own sake. Competitiveness and ambitious drive (Great Houses, FightersGuild-Blackwood) work, if you're just taking it on a basic level , though the resolution for the Fighter's Guild and Blackwood Company questlines in Oblivion were shallow. Morrowind serves as a much better example of how to deal with realistic faction dynamics. They hate eachother, but they have realistic motives, bound by law, more or less. One of the few direct attacks on another Great House in Morrowind is even justified through something as seemingly stupid as property laws. Whatever faction you didn't ally with built a stronghold illegally, so it's fair game to raze it.

Compare to Blackwood. They got high and slaughtered an entire settlement, now you need to kill their tree. It was painfully hollow, which svcks, because they could have gone so far with that Infiltration plot.

Even better if there's a bit of "Blue and Orange Morality" thrown in for good measure.

What is evil , what is good .... it's a pretty loose therm what is evil in one eyes doesn't have to be evil in other ones eyes ....

I have heard some talking I would love if there is some oppositie guild of evry guild like the Dark Brotherhood you can join and honorable Morag Tong you can join .... in constant bickering ofcourse ...

Hannibal Traven was a idiot ...

What about more gray guilds with their own codex that might be portrayed good or evil depending on the perspective rather than black-and-white guilds? Much like the Thieves Guild in OB, since they were basicly an organization of Robin Hoods.

Yeah no purely good or evil guilds. The members of the guilds should encompass everything along whatever moral axis you choose. There should be honourable assassins killing corrupt officials and such and ruthless psychopaths. Scheming mages who lust for power and ones who simply strive for the betterment of society. Warriors who protect the innocent and ones kill them if it helps them. Robin Hood and some who steal from those who cant prevent it. These all should exist.

i hated the way the dark brotherhood was done in oblivion. felt so cheesey


gray alignment for EVERY faction... even the churches

Thats why I put evil in quotations.

No one thinks of themselves as evil, its the others who do.

I get kinda annyed that whenever someone calls a bad guy "evil" someone has to respond "But what is evil, really? Who are we to decide what is right and wrong?" or "There is no such thing as evil." or whatever. When people say evil, they usually mean something along the lines of "Generally considered morally very wrong and being self-serving or not caring about the morality of their actions, without what most people would consider to be a reasonable excuse". Seriously, the "What is evil?" nihilistic stuff is getting really old.

On some level, it would be great if all the factions are morally ambiguous.

I would like to see some factions that facilitate RP'ing a total butthole if you want to. Call it "evil" or "bad" or simply "inconsiderate."

The stereotypical viking faction you mention would be cool. A group of Raiders terrorizing the countryside, though hopefully more story than just that, but yeah that could be cool.

Of course. We don't want another boring faction like the fighters guild.

Maybe the stereotypical vikings and the fighters guild will have some conflict. Leading you to chose between one or the other.

IMO, the stories for the OB guilds were a little out there. Especially the mages guild. I don't really want a complicated story to go with all the guilds. A story yes, but one on par with the main story, no.