Complain about no meats on the bones for a game that hasn't come out yet, and we don't know all that we're actually getting.

Ahhhhh, Bethesda Forums, never change. It's good for a laugh.

This still doesn't compare to when Skyrim was announced and the first details were rolling in Jesus Christ that was a [censored] fight

Ok, that's fair. But but hey, if you played them once "shortly after FO3 annoucement", don't come around claiming you know about the experiences with one playthrough after 8 years and then some wiki. Ok?

Fo3 did all of those,

-The only side quest not to have multiple solutions was the Ranger's quest

-Several of them, such as Tenpenny Tower, Blood ties, and Oasis had no right answer.

-The stuff you did actually affected the world. In some ways far more then the original games because, unlike them, stuff happened in the game itself, instead of being shoehorned into a post-game cutscene like most old RPGs did with any choice that mattered.

-The game did have detailed character creation rules. Tim Cain has on video saying he believed they adapted SPECIAL well in Fo3, and Chris A said he felt the game made his skill matter. Who am I to question the people who made the originals.

So yeah....

Time is irrelevant in terms of experience except in regards to looking back on how much you enjoyed it....... which is nostalgia defined. And you can do better then that.

And it wasn't just one, hell, I never even said once, put that scarecrow back outside. I have played through them each at least 10 times. Fun games, would put them on the upper tier of RPGs I have played.

Not sure what your on about OP but I enjoyed 3 far more than NV. I only got 40 hours out of NV with 2 characters and beat the main quest twice before getting bored enourgh to give it to a friend who himself only played it once. In 3 I managed toplay 600 hours of the game andDLCs over 3 characters. That happened because despite some peoples opinions of Bethesda's writing I actually wanted to see that main quest through to the end and genuinely wanted to help with the purifier to help people. (And on my evil character was pleasedwith poisoning the water lol.) Plus I found map in 3 to be much mmore interesting with the urban setting.

I know they didn't show much of 4 yet but from what I saw I went from not caring at all about this game to actually being impressed.

Oh you are so wrong.... Time is never irrelevant. Never. That's how you evaluate our future upbrinings. Hitstory is never irrelevant. Never. Never. Our perception of it, however, is.

That you experienced the game differently than I, is irre鰁vant. What is relevatnt is that how the what the game was made out to be is relevant to us. It was made to be differently achieved by different people, It isn's anymore, not in the same way...

So, this may not be you, but I see dinosaurs do this in the opposite regarding F3, pretty much daily.

I don't have a point. I just thought this post was kind of ironic. Like, if many of the people that rail against F3 had actually played it.........

Anyhow, I'll go back to lurking now.

So much back and forth debates between old and new fans, cant we all just agree that new power armor looks amazing, nod our heads, hug, and call it a day?

I played Fallout 3 six months ago.

FNV 4 months ago (though I quit cause I can't stand the gamebryo/bethesda gameplay it is built on.)

And currently playing Fallout 1 again.

I do keep myself somewhat up to date with the games.

It is simply about the offered experience, that once was and is no more.

This is the ultimate crux, and problem, with your argument.

"what the game was made out to be" is something that has been pulled out of fiction. The devs themselves had many disagreements about how many things should world, or even if they should be in the game at all. When not even the original devs can agree on exactly how the original game SHOULD have played, its impossible to state there was/is any hard objective measure of "what the game was made out to be".

Now, much like every other game series that lasts for any significant period of time, certain subsets of people have latched onto what they define as "what the game was made out to be", which is always, "everything that is totally different from how the game is now", and are trying to push subjective opinion as objective fact. And just like every other "Enclave" of people doing the same, it always relies on this massive maze of mental gymnastics where everything devs say against such notions are really just full of hidden double meaning, where everyone who didn't play the game the same time they did can't REALLY understand the experience, and other such statements.

Fallout is nothing more and nothing less then what it is, and that is different for every person, even the original dev team. It may not be something you like now, but that doesn't mean anything in regards to if its actually Fallout or not anymore.

That's well and good.
Like I said, I didn't really have a point towards the over all convo. Just thought that particular line was ironic.

Cheers.

Thanks for finding that list. My link to the one in Todd's diary broke when the Fallout 4 pages appeared.

Perhaps the most significant thing about that list when it comes to understanding the Fallout series is that many of the rules are unmeasurable. Most are highly subjective.

"There is often no right solution." What constitutes often?

"The players actions affect the world." What kind of effects? What magnitudes?

"Detailed character creation rules." How much detail constitutes detailed?

When I play Fallout 3, I see evidence that each of these rules was applied. I think it unlikely that they have been abandoned for Fallout 4.

No. No. Not in the slightest. What the games was made to be is what the game is,

On the rest... you are wrong again. See Civilization series, see HoMM series, see XCOM series, See Assassins creed seres, see Cod series , see TES series, see Command and Conquer series,,,, etc, None of those ever needed a full frontal [censored] uo modification to be what they are. None. They evolved over what the previous game in the series did well, that's a great chance Fallout never had because it had to adapt to TES.

That's fair.

You would get disagreement on every single one of those series from numerous people.

C&C, TES, CoD, even Assassins Creed have very vocal groups saying "EVERYTHING HAS BEEN CHANGED!"

Hell, TES gets that compliant literally every single game post Daggerfall,

I can attest to this, in fact the amount of people who spout the similar arguments on both this forum, and the AC forum is astounding. If the franchises weren't so different I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

I thought about this for a while, and I have to say me too. Fallout 3 was pretty close to being the perfect game for me. So yeah, more of the same is exactly what I want.

It crosses all times, genres, platforms, and even media formats.

I can recall these arguments being made, almost verbatim, back before youtube on all types of games, from racing games, to FPSs, to sports games.

Ok. We're going to have to agree to disagree. I liked the main quest in Skyrim (though i like other lines better - like the DB line). I enjoyed Blackreach, and the embassy visit, and most of the rest. The final battle was weak until I modded it. Than it was almost impossible.

But really, what makes Skyrim great are the mods. Period. No one would even remember the game without the 40,000+ mods. It's why I and many others are still playing the game. And it's why the game is still selling. That's just remarkable for a game from 2011.

My Skyrim has 198 mods. I have to worry about; being cold, hungry, get enough sleep and water. The weather and seasons change, combat is much much better, the dragons are something to worry about, many more very involved quests, interesting npcs and the game is beautiful. I hunt, cook, camp, fish, have six, and even raise kids. All because of mods.

I'm hoping FO4 is the same. I wrote 2 mods for Skyrim (they are advlt mods). And I'd like to port them to FO4.

So assuming the modding community embraces FO4 (and I don't see why not) Bethesda will have another huge hit on their hands that players play for years.

Yes I would. You think Fallout would not? About the other gaems and their fanbases I won't eve go there.

People cheer for the open world and the random [censored] you can do, but none for the "Fallout experience", Coincidence, no? The same as Civ fans would, as they did, have factioned against certain changes, and so on for other series'.

People will cheer for and against everything. Everything. You think you are an intelligent specimem, but at some point someone will outspeak you. That's how things work. I am not out here to prevent future from happening, I am here to speak for its happening for the right causes and results.

And again, TES is TES. What TES does shouldn't have anything to do with Fallout. But it did, and now we are where we are.

Fallout 3 is excoriated for it's puerile distilling of morality.

Cherry picked examples such as Tenpenny tower, oasis (because it's morally ambiguous to sacrifice someone against their will to a cult) and Blood ties (another dubious case of moral ambiguity) are the minority of morally ambiguous (I'm giving you credit to even say that) quests in Fallout 3 and don't constitute what happens most often, not even close.This just shows your bias and cherrypicked casuistry.

Also the most important questline in the game didn't have multiple options, we are literally forced to side with the bos at project purity

Fallout 3 offers choice most of the time, but it often fails because of the contrived moral dichotomy of good or evil...

Also the world transcends more than the environment the player plays within, this should be evident to anyone who has any cognizance of a fictional universe and lore.

Chris Avellone and Tim Cain never said the character creation rules were detailed, even in these cherry picked quotes.

No, the point was that these augments are nothing more then memes at this point. and not internet memes, not "BOOM HEADSHOT!" meme, but actual societal memes.

Depends on what you define the Fallout experience as, which is, again, subjective and personal.

Implying that two games of the same genre wouldn't effect each other is naive.

You might as well say that because X racing game did realistic car destruction physics, racing game Y shouldn't, because it shouldn't do what other games do.

You could actually side with Eden if you wanted to.

You mean like the contrivance that is grey morality? As all morality is contrived as it not actually an extant thing, but a fictional mental construct we chose to treat as actually existing. This is why supposed grey morality games don't impress me, nor do arguments against black/white morality, both are equally fake and contrived, one just pretends its smarter then it actually is, while the other doesn't. the latter ends up feeling far less insulting intellectually as a result.

SOS

I'm pretty sure you missed the pont.

No, the Fallout experience is what it is, what people experience and want to experience now is what it is.

The Fallout experience is what ever you get from Fallout or Fallout 2, that was the bueauty of it, not anymore. Now it is do what you want and don't care.

Implying that two games of the same genre wouldn't effect each other is naive.

You might as well say that because X racing game did realistic car destruction physics, racing game Y shouldn't, because it shouldn't do what other games do.

Implying that two games of the same genre wouldn't effect each other is naive.

You might as well say that because X racing game did realistic car destruction physics, racing game Y shouldn't, because it shouldn't do what other games do.

Implying that all change is for the better.

You might as well go to the FarCry forums and say this is the Fallout you always asked for.

Ok, we've had to delete posts from this thread and do some intensive watching and culling and it still continues to have members hurl insults at one another because they simply don't agree on things. Don't do that. It changes nothing except to get threads closed.