The main reason you see so many MW fans here after 8 years, while OB's fanbase has pretty much faded after 4, is that the two games appeal to distinct (although somewhat overlapping) audiences. The MW fans are primarily RPG enthusiasts, whereas the OB fans lean more toward Action/RPG hybrids. After 3 or 4 playthroughs with different characters, you've barely scratched the surface in MW, and may or may not have finished the MQ in the process, but you've probably "beaten" OB more than once and that's enough of that. MW is more about "imagination", and gets played again and again, while OB is more "generic" fantasy and soon gets put away and forgotten after the initial thrill wears off. Mods definitely help keep MW interesting after all this time, although there are still a lot of console players who can only play the "vanilla" game.

Daggerfall, while nobody will EVER explore all of it, was mostly procedurally generated and random, between the few "fixed" locations. That's fine for a while, but it gets to be a little too apparent and "artificial" after a while. Personally, I was never overly fond of "purely random" games; a bit of intelligent placement seems to be needed amid the chaos. I can understand many of the sentiments in favor of it, and it would be a good thing to draw ideas from it (char creation is a fine example), but it had problems from the start, and hasn't aged all that well.

Morrowind Graphics > Oblivion Graphics
Morrowind Depth > Oblivion Depth
Morrowind Overall Gameplay > Oblivion Overall Gameplay

I can say I absolutely regret playing Oblivion for everything about it makes my stomach turn and ache. The graphics of Morrowind are what helped make it simplistically interesting. I say any new texture pack that removes the cozy muddy swampy feel of vanilla Morrowind deserves to burn.

I'm solidly biased towards Morrowind, but I do like the mix of Action and RPG. If MW was turn based, I would not have played it. But I completely agree that the kind of people who play Oblivion "beat it" and move on. I have never beat the MW mainquest, and I still play it today more than OB, because each character plays differently. I only did the MQ in OB because I got bored and wanted to do it before my character was nerfed by level scaling.

I used to accept Oblivion for it's flaws, and say that the things it did improve made up for them, but I've been able to do that less and less these days, especially since Bethesda is so tight lipped about their next release. I was hyped for Oblivion when I first read about it, now I'm just waiting for a TESV announcement, and will decide whether to buy or not based on what they show. A hackneyed story or failure to mention past missteps and how they've been rectified (ie putting back all the weapons they took out, Dark Elves voices) will convince me that Bethesda is simply going in the opposite direction of me as a customer.

I will admit much of my Morrowind appreciation comes from the mods that have turned it into something that may truly never end. Having played both the pristine XBox console and a heavily modded one now with over 245 mods, I can honestly say I wouldn't attempt to play it without them. Graphics alone, in the body meshes dictate that. Children of Morrowind, as well as MCA, Starfires' offerings, and LGNPC add-ons are almost a prerequisite for putting it on a new system here. After the talented restructuring of the aesthetics of the game by the modding community, it is very difficult to go back to the original.

Oblivion we enjoy here on the P3, but as visually stunning as the new look and graphics were, it just lost us when we came to those invisible walls that made the surrounding provinces or lands unattainable. Understandable, but no less annoying. Exploring it on the PC now has changed this, to a degree, but we still need more of it populated to appreciate it fully.

I played Oblivion first, then Morrowind.

I prefer Morrowind. It has more immersion, more background story, and generally more stuff to do and to see. Heck, there's even just about half a dozen different versions of the death of Nerevar and about what Nerevar was like, and you can choose which of them you believe.

If you haven't seen it yet you might be interested in onra's amazing http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1095095-tamriel-worldspace-modding-project-ii/ This, along with http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1072969 has renewed my interest in Oblivion. But, then, I love to explore almost more than anything else in Elder Scrolls games.

It's hard to put a finger on my MW bias. I have played the game since 2002 after all. I looked forward to OB and loved it to death when I played it (despite never getting into the silly main quest very far). But after 6 months or so it sorta wore off. STALKER came, then BIA, then COH, and when I finally had a hankering to get back to it, it was MW not OB. There's something about the exotic world, the stirring music and the dark tones that pull me in.

Or maybe it's just something about the time in my life (split then between Hong Kong and Dubai) that my return to Japan just hasn't been able to emulate. Now I have OB installed, but with the MGE and a few choice mods that make MW a more pleasant experience, I just don't go to Cyrodil as much anymore. I love the places of MW: sunset on the Bitter Coast, a Sunrise over Ascadia. The only part of OB I really wanted to hang out in was Bruma, and that was when I was pining for the frozen wastes of Sapporo. Now it's June and there's still snow on the peaks, I'm kinda missing those warm hazy sunsets over Madinat Jumeira or across the strait from New Territories to Lan Tau Island. MW gets me halfway there.

Morrowind Graphics < Oblivion Graphics
Morrowind Depth > Oblivion Depth
Morrowind Overall Gameplay > Oblivion Overall Gameplay
Morrowind Combat < Oblivion Combat
Morrowind Mods < Oblivion mods
Morrowind Dialouge > Oblivion Dialouge
Morrowind A I < Oblivion A I

Yeah, I have a very similar experience.

It had been over a year since I'd picked up Morrowind when Oblivion came out.

I was loving Oblivion but constantly being reminded "you can't sleep in an owned bed" was really ruining immersion for me. Then I went on the forums to try and get some help finding a black soul gem.

That's when I noticed all the complaints about Oblivion and it made me wanna try Morrowind again. But I had a power PC mac and a pre-backwards compatibility Xbox 360, so Morrowind was this forbidden gem for a while.

When it finally became backwards compatible on the 360, I was immediately taken back the moment I opened my GOTY box and saw the old, slighty-torn map of VVardenfell. The more I played Morrowind, the more I was reminded of why I loved it so much and the more I resented Oblivion.

I think that Morrowind is such a unique RPG that it created an unforgettable experience. So, now it is a nostalgic treasure for all those who first played it and loved it when it came out. It also earned the preference of those RPG-lovers who started with Oblivion and were inspired to buy the older TES games.

At the same time, while being an excellent game, seeing that Oblivion opening screen puts an ugly taste in the mouth of Morrowind fans, who remember how they felt when it totally fell short of the hype. So, even though it's fun, it's too hard to get into because of all the negative feelings surrounding it.

Then, as has been said, the people who prefer Oblivion are generally the type of people who don't stick with one game for long.

I've been thinking of giving Oblivion another chance, ignoring my bias. But I need to mod the crap out of it first.

For me, Morrowind stands out as the pinnacle for potential in the series. Daggerfall and Arena were massive, but they were too generic. Morrowind was far smaller in scale, but it provided a much needed hand crafted world, which along with other things, made it far more playable. Oblivion improved upon only a few of MW's aspects, at the expense of the vast majority of MW's potential.

It's interesting to note that in every offering since daggerfall, the rpg system and the general gameplay features have been dumbified. Some people say that Daggerfall was the best offering in those terms, and it is certainly the most feature rich of all 4, but i'll go with Morrowind's balance of world detail and rpg mechanics any day. I think the sacrifices made from Daggerfall to Morrowind were worthwhile indeed. It is a shame about Oblivion. Who knows what TES V will bring. As a general rule, i try not to get drawn into the hype and let my expectations get up with any new game. Unfortunately, Morrowind had jsut too much potential for me to forget about it while Oblivion was being developed. I'm holding on to hope a few people in Beth haven't forgotten completely where they came from...

Edit: I should add that while MW is my fave game of all time, i would find it hard to play it again now, mainly because of the extent to which i played it years ago. About a dozen characters, each of them unique, each of them roleplayed, each with a vastly different career, and none of them boring. The final character was the culmination of everything i'd learned in 3 years of playing, and i don't think i could top that now. With each character i was constantly thinking of the multitude of ways that various game aspects could be made better. If i play it again now, i'll only be reminded of how many game aspects got worse.

Edit2: I wrote a short story years ago about the career of my final character. If anyone wants to read it, drop me a pm.

I grew up in Oklahoma Tornado Alley, the only place where a thunderstorm is more intense than Morrowind. EDIT(Did I mention duststorms?)
I've been playing MW since 2003. I tried my hand at OB about 4 times through.
I stopped my last game of OB and moved my newest char to Morrowind.
Morrowind has always seemed like "roll your own" literature. Oblivion is more like problem solving.
However, since the OP wrote to the Morrowind forum, those of us who reply might just be a little biased.

I think it's a combination of all of those theories. Mostly though that MW is the awesomest game ever

Agreed. People in general have to much pride to admit when they're being a tad biased. That being said. I do believe Morrowind is the superior game, but it simply has its age going against it.

***

Oblivion was an attempt at opening the series up to the mass market and not just hardcoe RPG fans like myself. Its similar to what Bioware did with Mass Effect but not to such great extent.

I don't believe all the nonsense about Oblivion being dumbed down. The combat is streamlined, so is questing. The leveling system is broken and the setting is quite generic, but that doesn't make it a stupid or dumbed down game. It just makes it flawed in the gameplay and creative department.

I'm sure with TES V, we'll see an improvement on these changes. We've already began to see the level scaling changes when it comes to Fallout 3.

I've said it before, I think a lot of the hate for Oblivion on these forums is the bandwagon effect. The popular opinion is that Morrowind is better, so that's what more people tend to say.

Bethesda did make a mistake with the level scaling, but aside from that, I agree with Mikedzines that it was streamlined, not dumbed down. Adding minigames for things like lockpicking and persuasion rather than being completely powerless over their outcome, and having full control over whether or not I make contact when I swing my weapon, were positive changes in my book. Oblivion's world was beautifully made and, at least for me, interesting to explore. I never had any complaint with it. I do prefer Morrowind because of many reasons stated above: richer lore, more interesting characters, more of a unique setting, etc. but I think Oblivion is a fine game in its own right, and I still come back to it with pretty good regularity.

Yes, because I'm not saying that the bias is undeserved. I'm just addressing the bias.

I wrote a lot, you have been warned, there is a point, I think...


I have just joined the forums, sorry for the delay, I have been playing the TES games for the last several ( more then I can count ) years, instead of talking about them.

I am a huge Morrowind buff, I did start with Morrowind, but I do not find myself biased, I did put up with Oblivions crap to beat all the quest lines (and for me that was an alarm in itself). took me exactly, a few days. After that I became level 3 and found myself a vampire nest and made them fear my werewolf blood that ran in my veins.

I think there is no question why the MW 'fans' are the ones sticking around. How many years has it stayed on the shelves? I can not tell you how many copys I have gone through, computer and xbox versions.

Do not get me wrong, I love Oblivion, but to me, the gameplay is just broken. It is backwards and made for 6 year olds who are on a Halo cold turkey ( I love all Halo games but when the credits roll I dive for Morrowind ) To me Morrowind is the best (not counting Arena and Daggerfell - in my mind they are too holy to be held to such petty contests of fame. )

MW is the most amazing world, I can not tell you how good it feels to never hit a "wall" either it be invisible or solid. In Oblivion every time I played I hit some dumb wall keeping me from escape to Morrowind. I have been playing Oblivion for pure dungeon crawling as I do with Arena and Daggerfell. The one thing that makes me mad is the insane way everything gets impossible to kill after level 10. Until Oblivion I could not have cared a rats ass what my Endurance was and how fast I could get it to 100. It felt like I was forced to play like I was a machine or give in to shame and move that difficulty slider (ask me if that slider is in MW, I will shrug) I do like some sort of challenge as I level but I always liked the fact after I mastered my art I would be death to all. (I sometimes go Werewolf on Balmora and wipe out the town just for the hell of it.)

I think the reason the game stayed in everyone's hearts was more about the fact the world was alive. [censored] the 24/7 npcs in Oblivion, it was amazing but you found those lazy people in expansions that never even got up to eat.(MW people can tell where they can go even with no track, thats AI!) The MW world was able to be mod in a good way, down to quests and story.

In Oblivion feel the hours of audio for everyone's dialogue killed the Mod making for a big part of the games constant growth. Not to mention the only one worth having audio for was Patrick Stewart... that was... perfect in every way.....*dies* So in that respect, I think the fact Oblivion is next gen was maybe, TOO great. It just lost some of its soul for a insane trap system that never hits me when I am pimping 100 speed. Wow I typed a lot.

Anyway, there are countless things I liked, the perk system was neat, and things I hated, like perm dead things and no "dispose corpse", every other person is not able to be killed (there goes blood lust) and no werewolf (my claws to go with my blood lust). and by the way, Todd(my hero), why the hell is it when I walk outside in the city Im still inside? Thats cheating. And Levitation hates you for it. And so does the Werewolves/Wereboars, Jump spell and maybe Mark Recall... I always had a mark and recall amulet, made life great, no instant tele to towns. There may be towns in MW I have no idea exist, thats why its fun, the unkown.)

So to complete my rant, Morrowind is loved by those who tie fate to the dice, as the skill level should choose if you can hit (and kill/survive). "The most powerful weapon in the world wielded by an idiot is not match for a master holding a stick."(not possible in Oblivion) And Oblivion is geared to those who feel like the better looking the girl (or sword, the better....or until they find a better one....or girl...) That is why Morrowind will continue to be the best RPG Game in the world. (D&D is still the best table top, pen and paper RPG, (and in my opinion all RPGs I still cant tell how low tech the graphics are, they use paper!!! Resolution depends on your vision.) LOL.

Hate me if you wish, but drop half my weapon (spears, staffs, etc) and armor types (where is my medium armor, etc) , combine parts of armor together, (why cant my mage ware cool pauldrons? with my robe now...) combine skills, remove great spells and skills, make my inventory and menus hell to use, and I could really care less how nice that tree blows in the wind. (I saw the tree editor the team used.....tight)

Not bad for my first post..... =D *goes back to life...aka.. Morrowind*

Morrowind is not "the awesomest game ever", it has significant problems, but it isn't as deeply flawed as Oblivion is, and Morrowind/Oblivion are the only two "modern" TES's. It's pretty easy to see why people lavish praise on it. No other game series attempts the scope that TES does, and Morrowind has come the closest to fulfilling TES' ideals (though it's still a long way off)

I notice on my original boxes for Morrowind and Oblivion, they recommend 1 Gig of drive space for MW and 4.6 Gigs for OB. That's a huge difference, and I assume the main reason is the graphics in OB. But no amount of eye candy can substitute for good game design, and let's face it, Morrowind was a hard act to follow. If the tech and the drive space had been easily available, MW probably would have had better graphics too, swallowing up a lot more drive space. My original copy is CD not DVD, so that's how far technology has moved. If the Construction Set had not been included, I am guessing ALL of the original Morrowind would have been on one CD.
There are lots and lots of mods for MW which certainly help its longevity, and by implication shows the continuing interest in the game.
If there is a TESV, and if it astutely combines the best of MW and OB, it could be the Rolls Royce of first person rpg games. I bet everyone at Bethesda knows that.

Actually, I always like to say, "the only thing Oblivion has more of than Morrowind, is gigs."

Id read this kind of threads ever since Morrowind came out and the real answer is this and its simple, morrowind was made as a straight up RPG for RPG fans, Oblivion was made for a broader public. So RPGs fans like Morrowind more not in spite of its perceived flaws (for example the combat system) but because of it. I happen to like both of them, but prefer Morrowind because its such a unique fantasy world, and Oblivions is kind of generic and the handholding is not much fun. The fighting in Oblivion is way more fun and the eyecandy doesnt hurt, but the mood of Morrowind is what make it so unique; I doubt we will see another game so bold again.

I'd have a hard time finding even one person who thinks this.

Morrowind had flaws. Some of those flaws were fixed in Oblivion. Oblivion IS a better game in some ways. But it's an inferior game in the important ways.. like story, level structure, writing, immersion, mood.

I think that sums it up pretty well
Even if Oblivion had been superior in every aspect of its mechanics (which I don't think it was) mechanics alone can't make a game great. Great mechanics + mediocre story, background etc = mediocre game. Mediocre (but not awful) mechanics + great story, background etc = great game

Pehaps Im not understanding your point but what Im trying to convey is that the things you might have found annoying about Morrowind are actualy now better thought of by players who got a supposedly superior system in Oblivion and then decided they liked Morrowinds aproach better. Not even the hardiest fan boy would say that the mood, story or setting of Oblivion is better than Morrowind, but other areas that they sought to "improve" from Morrowind to Oblivion didnt do so well either. That is what I meant about inspite of it percived flaws; they were not as important when compared to Oblivion′s.
This is after all, a thread meant for the discussion on why Morrowind players prefer it to Oblivion. Some examples of this rationale of features that Morrowind had that werent that well received and then Bethesda tried to improve for Oblvion would be:
1) The fighting system; in Morrowind its akin to the system used by the older generations of games like Baldur`s or Wizardry where the skill of actual character you are playing is the deciding factior of success; you can click that mouse all you want but only the stats of your character will decide if you hit. In Oblivion you (the player) control that totaly, the skills of your avatar might help you pull of more blows or such but the result of your fights are a direct result of your skill, not your characters. I personaly prefered the action packed approach to Oblivion, but it did put the old system into a new light.
2) The spoken dialogue. Yes its amazing and you want to show off to your friends but after the second rumors topic you just skip it, many pople complained about the huge amount of text they had to read in Morrowind, but then they got Oblivion and appreciated the older system better
3) The menu system; Morrowind′s was inicially thought as kind of clumsy, then Bethesda had to come up with a system that would be good for watching ten feet away from the TV. The less told about this the better I think
4) The fast travel system: Gamers complained about having to walk some much when Morrowind came out, and one of the first offical mods tried to fix this. Beth "fixed" this in Oblivion by letting you fast travel everywhere. Hardly a loved solution, and people once again viewed Morrowind in different light
Need I go on?

As Ive stated before I like both games, but saying that Oblivion is a better game because it sought to "change" what the devs thought was wrong with Morrowind is like saying that Cookies and Cream ice cream is better than both Cookies AND vanilla Ice cream because it tries to "improve" the ice cream....its just a different flavor. So Why do I prefer Morrowind? because I do

If by "this" you mean Morrowind's combat system, then you've found one.

You prefer Morrowind's combat system to Oblivion's? Is it because you can't miss in Oblivion, or because the player is involved instead of die rolls?