Morrowind Combat Fail : III

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:55 pm

Came across http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzsTztpToTI&feature=related during watching a "Let's Play", and laughed my butt off

Surely shows how badly the Morrowind combat looked.

» Sun May 29, 2011 1:53 am

That video proves nothing to me at all. It appears to me as though he's standing too far away to hit the NPC.

Morrowind's combat did not "work badly." It was roleplaying combat, not Oblivion's first-person shooter-style combat. The two systems are different. Neither is better.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:55 pm

Came across http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzsTztpToTI&feature=related during watching a "Let's Play", and laughed my butt off

Surely shows how badly the Morrowind combat worked.

Real meaningful. Hand to Hand skill of 10, Agility and Luck in the 40's. With those stats Bruce Lee couldn't have hit anybody.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:04 pm

That's what you get with a "worst case" example. It's amazing what some people will go through just to make things more difficult than they already are.

A fine "counter" to that would be a video of a high-level OB character with only 10 points in their weapon skill, and who only got 1-point attribute increases on each level-up, fighting a goblin. The pathetic 2-3 points of damage with each hit, against all of those hitpoints, would be equally ridiculous to behold.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:16 pm

that quest was so annoying, I just couldnt make him fall over! so I killed him and it worked

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:44 pm

Morrowind has bad combat? In the Morrowind forums? Asking for trouble <_<

» Sun May 29, 2011 12:03 am

So, a level 5 character with a 10 Hand-to-Hand skill can't hit a level 40 NPC...

It's not the combat system that's failing here. :rolleyes:

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:15 pm

So, a level 5 character with a 10 Hand-to-Hand skill can't hit a level 40 NPC...

It's not the combat system that's failing here. :rolleyes:

» Sun May 29, 2011 12:25 am

Frankly I think the claim that it's an RPG combat system is hardly an excuse. RPG system or no, it's just not fun. I've played lots and lots of RPGs that have fun combat that's also purely based on stats...

» Sun May 29, 2011 2:55 am

Frankly I think the claim that it's an RPG combat system is hardly an excuse. RPG system or no, it's just not fun. I've played lots and lots of RPGs that have fun combat that's also purely based on stats...

Weird, I always have fun when I play Morrowind.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:45 pm

I certainly always have fun fighting stuff in Morrowind, so I dunno what you play Mojo.

» Sun May 29, 2011 12:11 am

If Morrowind did it like other stat-based RPGs, we would see a 'MISS!' raise over the head of the enemy after each failed strike. Not sure I would want that.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:06 pm

Wow, I was just talking about this on the other thread.

What is an RPG video game, besides a big, virtual board game, right?

So, to apply Oblivion's combat system to reality, two players would have to sit there smashing their game pieces together until a piece broke off of one. That's why Oblivion's fights take so long.

In Morrowind, every time you press the attack button, there is a little stabbing animation on the screen. But, what is really happening, is that you are rolling dice.

So, no matter how many times you press that attack button, if your skills and stats and fatigue and equipment don't add up, you will never roll a good number. So, instead of living out the fight, in the moment, like an FPS, you're meant to plan out the encounter then watch it play out, like a board game.

RPG video games don't imply that they're based off of a board game in the manual for the same reason that turn-based strategy games don't mention that they are just virtual Risk... royalties, I assume.

For those who think that type of combat system is dead because we are in a new generation of gaming or some silliness.... see WoW. That game has a pretty huge casual audience and it's combat is click once, then watch your guy miss a ton of times.

Questions? Comments?

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:11 pm

Wow, I was just talking about this on the other thread.

Questions? Comments?

Yep, pretty much
Combat should be adapted some to suit the medium (real time rather than turn-based, decent animations for hiting, missing, dodging, blocking etc) but still stat based, not dependent on player skill

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:50 pm

That video proves nothing to me at all. It appears to me as though he's standing too far away to hit the NPC.

Far away? He was right up against the guy.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:49 am

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084692-relz-combat-experience-depth-perception/

^ totally fixes the combat..

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:39 pm

He should be training his hand-to-hand on a rat. On humans it only starts working well when you reach the 40s (this I know from experience). And the fact he's in Solstheim probably doesn't help much.

Morrowind was not "broken." Were some characters brokenly made? Yes, but you can't blame that on the game, can you?

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:19 pm

It's not a bad combat-system it's a bad skill level :sleep:

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:50 pm

...That's what you get with a "worst case" example. It's amazing what some people will go through just to make things more difficult than they already are...

In lawyer terms, "Hard cases make bad law."

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:44 pm

Far away? He was right up against the guy.

Didn't look like it to me. *shrugs*

It's pretty academic anyway as the guy making the video doesn't appear to know how to play. He doesn't even know the name of the game.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:25 pm

Lol, Oblivion fail, huh?

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:25 pm

Morrowind's combat did not "work badly." It was roleplaying combat, not Oblivion's first-person shooter-style combat. The two systems are different. Neither is better.

That's a statement that's up for debate, but that's beside the point, the problem isn't that the combat is broken, it's that the character used in the video was not very good in the proper skill. If there's any bad game design here, it's that there aren't more options in how to complete quests in Morrowind. Maybe in a game with less linear quests, there would have been an alternative that does not assume the player character will be decent in hand to hand, but Morrowind is not such a game.

But in this case, it looks like the combat is working exactly as it's supposed to, it's just that the character has really horrible hand to hand skill. But considering that the person in the video seems to think a hand to hand skill of ten is not pathetic and also seemed to get the name of the game wrong, I'd say he probably doesn't realize this. Really, watching that video makes me really wish I could suggest to the player to go get some hand to hand training, and come back later, it's what I'd do.

» Sun May 29, 2011 1:37 am

you dont have to beat him up you can just kill him, there isnt any setbacks either just the rich old guy likes you more for a certain time. But the real decision is when you side with the rich old guy or the other guy.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:52 pm

Now now, don't be too harsh on Veriax. It's an interactive Let's Play. So if a suggestion says "Do some Bloodmoon quests", even at level 5 he must do it. But it's surprising how many players underestimate the negative effect of a low weapon skill. With a skill of 20, you're not competent, you're terrible! (and handtohand 10 IS pathetic.)

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:26 pm

He should be training his hand-to-hand on a rat. On humans it only starts working well when you reach the 40s (this I know from experience). And the fact he's in Solstheim probably doesn't help much.

Creatures take forever since they have so much fatigue, but you're right, it would make hth easier since they can't stab back with a jinksword, for example. I was going to say train on commoners, but I recall Foryn Glinith giving me a pretty thorough butt-whooping when I had 20 hth. Starting with mudcrabs or kwama foragers might be safer than rats though...