To Morrowind Fans

Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:03 am

I like the improved sneak system. In Morrowind I don't think darkness affects your visibility at all, and there is also no way to toggle sneak.
The magic is much smoother but I'm sure the spells are weaker overall.
Physics on objects is nice, it certainly feels better to see a corpse ragdoll rather than fall down in the same way every time.
It's very useful to have every landmark, marked on my map in comparison to Morrowind where only the most significant places get marked.
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Mark Hepworth
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:15 am

I've just scratched a post earlier today because near ending I got into combat and it was an absolute rant. Oblivion's combat is not better than Morrowind's. Setting everyones agility to 1000 is not an improvement. Here is the rant part as now I don't think it was that bad off topic now as my other points were made by 2-3 posters above me already.

In Morrrowind, they say it is "miss, miss, miss, hit, miss, miss,miss,miss,miss, miss, hit". So you will hit your opponent 50 times and be able to hit them 12 times to kill them. NO. Before you try that, your opponent will waste you! If your combat won't last long, it will end with defeat or retreat. The linearization of quests and level scaling made Oblivion's combat bad experience for me.

In Oblivion, you talk to guards with 50 arrows in their chest. Best way is to slash as fast as possible. Constantly drain their healths, use your fast regen unlimited magicka to heal, attack to undying level scaled enemies. This is the best way because when they come in numbers, delayed power attacks will be the death of you. I finished Arena questline with my lvl 1 (I leveled during though) character(thanks to regeneration pool), I dodged from arrows(unlimited) with my back turned, replenishing my arrows and using them in next stage, when it was finally challenging they gave an animal to my aid, it finished them off for me. So I can say combat was nothing to be praised. In later levels, Morrowind plays like Oblivion too. At least you finish your enemies with right strategy in truly epic combats which can only be won with right strategy. And take that from a Quake/Duke/Doom culture guy. I want action! I want to use my targeting skill as well as brain skills as player skills. So marksmanship was in right direction it was 50 arrows in chest which ruined it. See Dark Messiah for melee combat.

I won't argue about design choices. All additions were good on paper, problem was they were not as good as they advertised it. Something happened, maybe because of time constraints or consolization, what I am trying to say is Oblivion was %45 of what it could have been.

Let me point good things:
Physics/Animation. It is good because they tried to add it. Being the first next-gen game, it didn't work well. Physics were not implemented efficiently. It was a resource hog. I can only play the game as a slideshow back then, I upgraded and it played with 16 FPS which was still unplayable. Thanks Streamline, or even my third upgrade couldn't fix it. I want to point to natural motion anolyzer technologies, such as Rockstar is using in their games. Euphoria. Off course if they can program it themselves, better. Animations were still bad, even with vertex blending.

AI. We all know it didn't work as advertised. Still, get praised for trying. Why I look like a graphics [censored], I am not. I'm an AI [censored]! :P But we aren't getting improvements in that department. Why I don't know. AI's impact on Gameplay was always underrated. I play Thief gold and MGS 1-2 to feel some good AI. Also lately, Rockstar did an amazing job at that. Those pedestrians acts to surroundings very well, I'm not talking about just Euphoria, they feel my intentions and act accordingly. I was surprised many times at that. "How did they know?" or "No, I wasn't gonna try that, it is a misunderstanding." :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su_3bZnJhDw#t=2m12s
Narrating AI. :facepalm:

Schedules: Standing at the same position or going to work every day, coming back and lie down on a bed are equally boring. Where is holidays, heirs, natural cause deaths, migrations, special travels, seasons, aging, decay... I can go on and on about time effects in a game.

Graphics. It was beautiful. I think there were many occasions seeing bushes on country side and thinking, "wow, they look just like in Oblivion." If they tried a little harder, they could make Oblivion Crysis real. :o But it didn't aged well enough. Mainly LOD is ugly. MGE has to have perfect LOD on the other hand thanks to open city design. ;) When I saw Daggerfall screens, I used to think they were static screens, like in Monkey's island or something... I had no idea it was real 3D open game environments. I can say compared to Duke/Quake/Doom, they were a light year ahead of everyone. With Morrowind they were above time. With Oblivion they were just first and it aged quickly. :sadvaultboy:

Horses. They were useless. I'm not talking about Fast Travel. No (distinct)variation on their speed, jump abilities. You can't fight on horseback. Horses has no character. They didn't even have a name. Yes, I want names for every one of them. And taming and ability to give names. Their animations were also really bad. No physics at all in movements. Go read some development notes from Shadow of Colossus about IK.
http://www.bruno-urbain.com/resources/making_of_sotc.pdf

Sorry, it is very hard in Oblivion's case. Feats are also its failings, what can I do? :shrug:

PS. I won't delete it this time. It is technical as you see. I wouldn't wanted to go into game mechanics because it's game design and preferences. But I had to talk about this combat nonsense. Back in old days when I had no internet connection(I was living in a cave, no actually we didn't have privatized isp by the time, no it's not 3rd world country :P), the only mod I needed was World of Faces. :D

PPS. On a related note, I even liked the junction system of FF8. :chaos:

This is the future of this thread. Instead of "List things you think Oblivion improved upon", it will (or has) become "Shoot down the completely subjective opinions of others".

Sorry, that's all I mean to say. I don't intend on further contributing to this trainwreck.
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Brian LeHury
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:13 am

Oh, sorry. I shouldn't have posted it. But it isn't my fault. Oblivion is weird. I will edit my post. Please, don't mind me.

Edit: OK, I chopped it for the sake of the thread.
Sorry, it is very hard in Oblivion's case. Feats are also its failings, what can I do?

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Jacob Phillips
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:25 am

Yes, bring back walls of text with 15 different topics for you to try and find something useful, with the majority of those options having only three different variations! Absolutely stunning!
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Courtney Foren
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:11 am

Yes, bring back walls of text with 15 different topics for you to try and find something useful, with the majority of those options having only three different variations! Absolutely stunning!

When I read your comment, my logic, and where you are coming from, according to my logic must be: presenting texts better, add more useful information and more variations. But the tone suggests you prefer Oblivion's way,

"Chorrol."
"Yes, I will accept this quest," or "No, I cannot help you at this time."
"Rumors."
"Goodbye."

I fail to understand this logic. Can you clear it a little more for me? I mean by logic, you couldn't be preferring that if your concern was lack of variations.

PS. Let's help some people:
http://www.lgnpc.org/
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Connor Wing
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:03 am

Replaying Oblivion for the first time in a while, and it seems to me that it is perfectly possible to play without the quest marker. A lot of times, NPCs say things like "Here, let me mark it on your map." So you have the point that you're headed to, all you have to do is resist the temptation to teleport there and set the active quest to something else (like Nirnroot hunting) so you have to navigate there yourself. When I got to Weynon Priory, I didn't have to use my quest marker then either, as Prior Maborel was happy to inform me that Brother Jauffre would either be in the priory house or the chapel. And on the way, there are plenty of unmarked caves, settlements, and shrines to come across that you'll miss entirely if you don't take the time to explore (A Shadow over Hackdirt was probably my favorite sidequest in Oblivion). Try it, it works :)
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Jack Bryan
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:14 am

Replaying Oblivion for the first time in a while, and it seems to me that it is perfectly possible to play without the quest marker. A lot of times, NPCs say things like "Here, let me mark it on your map." So you have the point that you're headed to, all you have to do is resist the temptation to teleport there and set the active quest to something else (like Nirnroot hunting) so you have to navigate there yourself. When I got to Weynon Priory, I didn't have to use my quest marker then either, as Prior Maborel was happy to inform me that Brother Jauffre would either be in the priory house or the chapel. And on the way, there are plenty of unmarked caves, settlements, and shrines to come across that you'll miss entirely if you don't take the time to explore (A Shadow over Hackdirt was probably my favorite sidequest in Oblivion). Try it, it works :)

This. Alot of people say that you can't get around in Oblivion without the map, but there are roadsigns at just about every intersection. So long as you know where everything is in relation to the Imperial City, you can go anywhere without hassle.
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Penny Flame
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:57 am

So long as you know where everything is in relation to the Imperial City, you can go anywhere without hassle.

With the years of playing Morrowind, I can tell you, hassle has always been the best part of traveling somewhere.
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Jason Wolf
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:47 am

In this instance, "hassle" is used in the sense of "Oh dear, if only Bethesda hadn't developed this game with fast travel and quest markers in mind." What I believe he's saying, and what I'm saying, is that it's perfectly possible, and enjoyable, to navigate Cyrodiil without the use of either.

On your point, however, I think the appeal of getting lost as you're referring to it is wandering off the beaten path and just seeing what the world has to offer. Turn left instead of right at the crossroads that would otherwise take you to Chorrol, discover a trail shielded by the brush, and follow it to discover an Ayleid ruin or Daedric shrine, for example. That was present in both games, and done, I think, equally well in both.
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Wanda Maximoff
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:01 am

STEALTH.
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Mandy Muir
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:48 am

I don't just mean walking the hard way instead of the easy way. There where instances when there was no easy way, and it was great. Getting to the Urshilaku camp often took me through a Daedric Shrine. I often went straight through it and had to beat down some daedra to get to where I was going. Red Mountain is actually a great example. It was ridiculous getting around there. in a good way. I want to see more of this in TESV.
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Josh Sabatini
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:43 am

Well I didn't really like morrowind so I will only say one thing :obliviongate: I loved it when I got lost in the kvatch oblivion gate(I don't use map markers and since it was my first oblivion gate it was much harder then the ones after that.)
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Steven Nicholson
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:03 am

Oblivion feels more faced paced, especially with the fast travel. But anyways:

Magic they did both good and bad here, they made combat magic much easier to use but took out the fun spells of levitation and mark/recall. But since Oblivion had the FT system mark/recall lost it's purpose. Regenerating magic was nice, and I thoroughly enjoyed playing as a mage in Oblivion.

Melee combat IMO is improved. Sure it probably wont provide you with those extremely epic moments Morrowind did, but there are epic moments in Oblivion. Manual blocking was nice, now if only NPC didn't spend a minute with their shield/weapon blocking waiting for me to hit them so I'll recoil and they'll land an extra hit. I'm tempted to swing at NPCs blocking just to progress the fight.

Level scaling... I really hate this about Oblivion. I never feel like I'm getting stronger in Oblivion cause everything scales to my level. This also means that you won't find an extremely rare weapon in a cave guarded by extremely powerful monsters, because items are scaled to your level too (which means its one more thing to help ruin exploration). Plus this means you can't really have a place named after the monsters that live there.

Oblivion removed cliff racers! Both good and bad. I now no longer have to listen for that chirp and look in the sky for swarms of them coming after me. I no longer have to worry about anything trying to attack me from the sky. I don't even think there are regular birds, the sky is a thoroughly unpopulated waste of space.

Archery had some improvements but if I sneak attack the guy with a bow and he has an arrow going through the back of his and poking out his forehead, he should be dead. Don't give me grief about insta-kills cause I've mad instant kill magic and weapons in both games.

Stealth is much better.

Assassination better, but could be improved on still. If someone is sleeping and I do a power-slash with my weapon, magic, bow, etc. They should die, they should not sit up out of bed call to guards, that shouldn't hear them cause we are in a basemant in the middle of nowhere.

Stealing much better, but how do the shopkeepers know this common everyday silver vase is stolen? Better yet give citizens more expensive items, I found the most profitable way to be a thief was to walk in the mages guild and take all their spare alchemy sets, and grand soul gems.

The in game world looks pretty in Oblivion but is way less interesting than Morrowind. I can step out side and see a forest filled with regular trees and bushes, give me the exotic plants and landscapes of Morrowind, not one giant forest with some plains in one area, some snow in another, and swampy area in another. Come on Morrowind had Solsthiem which had a forest and snow and a frozend waste land the main area had the ashlands the bitter coast (oh the geography is all messed up in my head) and a swamp. I'm not sure what Mournhold looks like because for some reason, I never go there even though I can.

Exploration is not rewarding.

Horses were nice, but oh noes! Fast travel makes them useless. Plus when the hell did my black horse get replaced with this crappy unicorn? Its not fitting for an assassin.

Also Blog Reader how did you get lost in the Kvatch oblivon gate? Its really really really straight forward, as is the most of the rest of Oblivion.
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Toby Green
 
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Post » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:19 pm

You guys seem to be surprised that oblivion wasn't completely like morrowind. That's pretty foolish IMO. The same people who hate on Oblivion now because they 'changed too much' will hate on TES: V because 'they changed too much'.
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Jade MacSpade
 
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Post » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:22 pm

You guys seem to be surprised that oblivion wasn't completely like morrowind. That's pretty foolish IMO. The same people who hate on Oblivion now because they 'changed too much' will hate on TES: V because 'they changed too much'.


Most of the Oblivion critics don't actually clam they changed too much, just the wrong things (no levitation?) for no good reason (no jungle???).
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Sabrina Steige
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:51 am

Also Blog Reader how did you get lost in the Kvatch oblivon gate? Its really really really straight forward, as is the most of the rest of Oblivion.

I got lost in the towers I kept on going in the wrong doors.But after I found my way all the other gates were easy.
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sarah simon-rogaume
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:57 am

"I liked the way they handled Magic in Oblivion. It was actually a viable alternative to using weapons. Unlike in Morrowind where I found it nearly impossible to make a pure mage (without mods), playing a mage in Oblivion was one of my favorite characters. Also, although some might disagree, I do like how spells can't fail in Oblivion. It could get extremely annoying sometimes in Morrowind when you'd try to cast a spell that has a very low chance of failing, but it still would, and you'd get damaged during some fight and it could completely screw you over."

I disagree with the spell thing said above and it being impossible to play as a pure mage in morrowind ….. but in my case cheating in morrowind was a way of life after the first time through the game. I used that soul trap on self loop hole so many ways, I lost track.

The top 3 things I did like however were:

1st fighting was the big thing for me, they made it easy. Casting spells and fighting with your weapon was cool, archery was a plus too…… the down side for me was that it took some of the intelligence out of the fighting.

2nd, the graphics; everything was bright and vibrant……. Down side though is that it took away some of the world's diversity. It seemed like I was looking at the same patch of trees no matter where I went in oblivion.

3rd plus was; not having to read what a character was saying to me….. Down side though is it took away from the options in interacting with that character.
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Spaceman
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:36 am

"I liked the way they handled Magic in Oblivion. It was actually a viable alternative to using weapons. Unlike in Morrowind where I found it nearly impossible to make a pure mage (without mods), playing a mage in Oblivion was one of my favorite characters. Also, although some might disagree, I do like how spells can't fail in Oblivion. It could get extremely annoying sometimes in Morrowind when you'd try to cast a spell that has a very low chance of failing, but it still would, and you'd get damaged during some fight and it could completely screw you over."

I disagree with the spell thing said above and it being impossible to play as a pure mage in morrowind ….. but in my case cheating in morrowind was a way of life after the first time through the game. I used that soul trap on self loop hole so many ways, I lost track.

The top 3 things I did like however were:

1st fighting was the big thing for me, they made it easy. Casting spells and fighting with your weapon was cool, archery was a plus too…… the down side for me was that it took some of the intelligence out of the fighting.

2nd, the graphics; everything was bright and vibrant……. Down side though is that it took away some of the world's diversity. It seemed like I was looking at the same patch of trees no matter where I went in oblivion.

3rd plus was; not having to read what a character was saying to me….. Down side though is it took away from the options in interacting with that character.

Not to address the situation in general, just your points specifically:

1; Intelligence in video game fighting? The enemy was a stack of hitpoints in either game, arguing the intelligence of a fight angle is a weak way to go about deciding.
2; Though in Morrowind it was usually the same patches of dirt hills and wasteland. It isn't a point to either side.
3; And in Morrowind their interactions were often short and copy/pasted from someone else. Not much to either side.
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Dorian Cozens
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:18 am

Magicka regen, houses, poison, natural traps, casting, blocking, slightly improved sneak.

Pirates

[edit] outer world experiences: Dreamworld, the Hunt island, SI, the Sky battle, even the repetitive OB gates.

But back to Morrowind for a second. Rotheran was probably the best 'different' place to deal with.
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мistrєss
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:58 am

Not to address the situation in general, just your points specifically:

1; Intelligence in video game fighting? The enemy was a stack of hitpoints in either game, arguing the intelligence of a fight angle is a weak way to go about deciding.
2; Though in Morrowind it was usually the same patches of dirt hills and wasteland. It isn't a point to either side.
3; And in Morrowind their interactions were often short and copy/pasted from someone else. Not much to either side.


Not to address the situation in general, just you counter-points specifically



1st The strategy was the more intelligent part in fighting; you couldn’t just hack and slash your way through Morrowind. The enemies had strengths and weaknesses. If you’re level wasn’t up to par with the enemy you could always figure out a way around it, i.e. like when fighting umbra.

2nd Same patches of dirt? Every region was completely different, including buildings and people…. I really don’t get this argument at all.

3rd Again just like the fighting enemies thing, if you weren’t the right level, or part of the right guild or right race you could a way find a way to get someone to talk to you or fight you, or open up new dialog.

My entire point was to say what I liked better in OB, things that I thought they did a good job with. The improvement they made did come with some down sides in my book. Just like if they went back to a game that was just like morrowind for TESV, there would be a bunch of down sides too, things that we missed that were in Oblivion. If you make things too good in one area, it's going to lack something in an other area.... that's life and the sooner we come this realization, the less we will be displeased with the next installment of TES.
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Elisabete Gaspar
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:31 pm

Most of the Oblivion critics don't actually clam they changed too much, just the wrong things (no levitation?) for no good reason (no jungle???).

Yes.

Exactly that.

Oblivion was exactly like Morrowind, only with all the fun stuff removed. And no new fun stuff added to replace it. Just shinier combat... yawwwn,
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Julie Ann
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:49 am

I got lost in the towers I kept on going in the wrong doors.But after I found my way all the other gates were easy.


Eventually I said said "[censored] it" and ran through them all without even fighting any1, the enemy doesnt even chase u through the doors so I just used to run right up to the top and steal the sigil key then the gate would close. The End.
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Sammygirl500
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:47 pm

Stealth for sure. AI. Graphics, not the artistic quality of it though. I found the bonuses as you level up your skills to be kinda cool, not the ones for magic but like the no fatigue when drawing your bow back at lvl 25. The poisons also. Capping training. Physics existing. The way you use magic, but not the complete overhaul of it. Grabbing things to play with the environment's physics. Stealing system, how it marked the items stolen in your inventory. There's plenty more that I've forgotten to list, I'm sure, and even with all these good things to say about it, I still prefer Morrowind.
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Claire Mclaughlin
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:19 am

2nd Same patches of dirt? Every region was completely different, including buildings and people…. I really don’t get this argument at all.

Some people think that Oblivion had variety, for some reason. Personally, I didn't even know there was a swamp until I was blatantly told. I thought I was walking around more forest. :shrug:
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Dean Ashcroft
 
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Post » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:57 am

Some people think that Oblivion had variety, for some reason. Personally, I didn't even know there was a swamp until I was blatantly told. I thought I was walking around more forest. :shrug:

Really? Because I can definitely tell http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060803062626/oblivion/images/thumb/9/9b/Blackwood.jpg/750px-Blackwood.jpg from the http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070321044831/oblivion/images/thumb/8/86/Black_Rock_Caverns.jpg/750px-Black_Rock_Caverns.jpg from the http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060825231128/oblivion/images/thumb/a/a7/Heartlands.jpg/750px-Heartlands.jpg from the http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070321043654/oblivion/images/thumb/0/06/Jerall_Mountains.jpg/750px-Jerall_Mountains.jpg from the http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060803061832/oblivion/images/thumb/0/01/GoldCoast.jpg/750px-GoldCoast.jpg with no great difficulty. Maybe it's your monitor settings. :shrug:

EDIT: Hm... not certain on the grammar. Whatever, I'll leave it until corrected :P
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Adam
 
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