Hey there,

I recently stumbled accross the Morrowind Mod Makers Bible by N_V and I have to say that its a useful resource! Though its a tad out of date (We've learnt alot more since 2002) with a greater understanding how everything works.

While the modding community isnt as large and vibrant as back in 2002 when the document was origonally written, the community is still here and it does see new memebers poping up all the time. So I thought about updating the "MMMB" a bit.

The information contained in the document is compiled of posts from various sources and has a sort of "FAQ" in each section. As such its a bit jumbled up in terms of what it has to offer, a lot of sections lacking information, tutorials and tips ---- generally speaking it needs a tidy up.

So I was thinking of updating it, but I am only one modder with my own experiences. SO I was thinking (and this process normally isnt a good thing when my brain starts to work, for example I get distracted fairly quickly and I can go off on a tangent about nonsenseiable things - is that a word? Oh damn, see what I mean?), that if I post each section of the document one by one, show what I have added/changed ect... then as a community (god forbid that word as recently its been more like a take what you can rally in here) we can combine all our wealth of information, pool it together, share ideas and recomendatiosn of edits to the document and create a much better document.

What do you think?

So the plan is to make an updated document, posting a section, working on it then once happy moved on to the next bit? good bad?

I've started the ball rolling by converting the document from a PDF to a Word doc and have already started to edit.

Sounds great!

I would suggest that a chapter of two on how to add self made meshes and textures. That is, what the limitations and most useful techniques are, specific to Morrowind., if it is not too much trouble.

Yeah, that sounds good, gnomes. Maybe a chapter or two about Nifskope or animation, seeing as how those are fairly recent additions to the mod makers' arsenal. And also a bit on MGE mods (which I can help with).

I think it's a good idea, but I think it would be an even better idea to have all tutorials in a sticky thread right here in the forum, like any other decent forum I know already has. Why not just expand that video-tutorials thread? A modding bible is great, but you have to be aware of that there is one, which might not be so obvious, especially for newbies. Another bebefit of a sticky tutorial section is, that many many repetetive questions about technical stuff don't have to be asked over and over again, just because the original post got lost meanwhile, somewhere in the forum's graveyard. The search function isn't very good at finding you what you need anyway.

I think it's a great idea! I'll be more than happy to help out where I can.




KF

I'm game...for all of the ideas mentioned in this thread. My resources are yours.

i was looking through MMH and found http://modhistory.fliggerty.com/index.php?dlid=6533 it's a bunch of tutorials some are quite old but there is alot of information that might be use full

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/955345-wipznifskope-tutorial/

Edit: added link

It would be great to have it include more documentation on nifskope. The documentation I have seen so far is rather non-indepth and doesnt go into detail very much, but nifskope is one of the primary tools that people use, so having adequate stuff on it seems like a must.

Ah! There must be pictures! I learn through pictures!

You're welcomed to my http://www.4shared.com/document/VqXThGJa/Dialogue_tutorial.html if you want to include it.

Great idea. Scripting for Dummies and its GMST section should be included as well. What do you think?

I think that any other tutorials for third party programs should be a must as well. Mlox, Wrye Mash, MGE, MWSE, etc.

definatly - a little guide to each would be good! At this rate it looks like the old MMMB will be thrown out completly and an entirely new one written up!

If someone could start writting up a section on nifskope that would be great!

Fligg you ok to write up something about MWSE: What it is, how it works, maybe a few small demo scripts (with explanations to the do's and how's) that people can see/work with/use/text or whatever - similar to how scripting for dummies incorporates little "tutorials" for scripts? Doesnt ahve ot be anything fancy.

@Jac - I will defo include the dialogue stuff. The dialogue section is a bit ermmm rubbish in the MMMB lol.


@everyone else thanks for the tips, advice, suggestions and general support

I wrote my version because I could never find one that went into any real depth. I'm sure I've missed a few things, but I tried to cover everything I could think of. Let me know if there are any sections that are wrong, incomplete, or that could be explained better.

You can use/modify the Wrye Mash installers tab guide I wrote as you wish.

I *HIGHLY* suggest starting an outline of what you want, and working it sequentially, lest you be overwhelmed (which could easily happen without scope control!)

Oh nice one, thanks Jaredh

and yeah, already have an outline and a base document to work from so if I take it a step at a time, once section after another I should be fine.

I personally looked a little into how to merge dialogue safely and planned on making a tutorial once I finished my "research". On the subject of breaking topics that is mentions in several dialogue tutorials (including Jac's).

I created two mods: one modifies Eldafire and one modifies Fargoth. I gave both of them multiple overlapping topics (ovelapping in the beginning, middle and end, exactly the same just filtered for each respectively) and also gave topics that overlapped the original dialogue too.

All the topics showed and worked correctly. They ALL hyperlinked correctly.

Anyone have any suggestions? I'm trying figure out what causes (or what conditions more appropiately) the problem but I can't seem to reproduce it. Is it possible that topics are just broken by poor filtering or conflicting filtering?

So far I have only had time to check out the "topics" problem (unfortunately full-time job, school, and family limits my time) but I do plan to look into the other sections (particularly actual dialogue and how to "tweak" it to merge safely).

It's be awesome if a wiki could be set up. That way, as new knowledge comes out, it can be updated on the fly.

yea, a project like this should probably be wiki-style.
Great ideas so far, can't wait for it to be published

Pinkertonius, Cyrano (from LGNPC) did fairly extensive studies regarding the merging of dialog and I believe he showed that there could be complications if the dialog wasn't cleaned properly. I don't have his links, but I'm sure he still has his tests and methods somewhere. Personally, I'd rather go for safe than sorry and it's easy enough to enter dialog in the middle of a vanilla topic and clean the insertion points than wonder why users are complaining that your mod is missing dialog. Fliggerty had that issue with one of his earlier mods and we believe it could have been because of how the dialog was entered.

ok I have been working on the first section of the document:

? The Construction set
o What is the CS?
o Plugins
o CS layout

Here is the first part about the CS. Please read and let me know waht you think. Is it too much? Too little? Can anything be added?

Thanks, Jac. I'll try and contact him.

Love the idea of a new MMMB. We haven't really had much for updated tutorials in years. There is alot of new info that has been learned since the "early years".

edit: In reference to the CS, I believe the Steam version doesn't come with it.

Most of the resources available are out dated, this means an update would be EXTREMELY welcome. With regards to the 3rd person utilities, you should mention the standard community-approved utilities if such a thing exists. What I mean is, there are a few utilities for merging leveled lists, but the most recent is the one that doesn't cause problems... for example.

my 2 cents worth
ST

Very nice. Short and sweet, as intos should be. :thumbsup:

There's the UESP wiki. I don't see why this couldn't be added to it.

Actually, I personally prefer a manual. Printable, downloadable, and portable. Plus just being easy to update doesn't necessarily mean it WILL get updated. Way too many neglected wikis on the net.