Dear all,

We know that the Morrowind Modding Community is quite big. There is a great number of mods and a great number of modders.
Everybody with skill, patience and tools can shape Morrowind the way he desired!
We have seen and will continue to see many projects, from the most little to massive ones!
In this thread I would like to discuss about the latter. During this ten-or-so years many great ideas failed, unfortunately, to see the light they deserved.
Why? Well, the reasons could be so many that we would need a whole forum just for that!
So here is what I ask myself and would like you all to ask yourself: wouldn't it be better if modders who create similar mods would join together and merge their projects?
I know, this might sound like a creativity-stop, but isn't it true that a mod could only get better if shaped by many minds?
No mod is better than another one, we all know that, but isn't it better to have one, two or three massive mods than to have ten, twenty or thirty unfished-massive mods?
So, why all the question marks? Well, I am still forming my own opinion about that!

Please share yours here!

PS: Me, personally, I am particularly interested in the opinion of the author(s) of massive mods!

The idea of merging similar projects into a single one is a good idea in theory, but doesn't seem to work that well in reality. Most modders are to "egoistic" with their projects and lack of openmindedness concerning ideas of others. This is taken to the extreme in those huge projects we've going on these days, not naming any of them.

It's like do it our way or die. I've seen it often enough that someone with new refreshing ideas has been talked down due to strict guidelines of a certain project. Some people don't know left or right, they're moving straight through the tunnel all the time. I think this is one of the main reasons, why there are so many similar projects out there. Most modders rather like to do their own thing, than being told what is right or wrong or having to discuss for hours and hours to get their ideas agreed on by the authorities of a project, which is already far in progress or well established in the community. Just my two cents.

In some cases, yes, it could be a good idea. But only if both sides of the merge agree on the direction to take the mod and make a LOT of compromises. Even modders with the same kind of project will have very different ideas and methods. You also have to consider the goal of the modder. Is it simply to release a certain type of mod at all cost? Or is it to shape his personal vision into a mod? If it's the later, merging his project might even work against that goal.

this, team project's are alright, but they have the problem of having to make all the team members happy.
most people like to work alone cause its quieter, faster and easier (if you know what you're doing)

oh, and if one person wants to be a knob, the whole project could crash, which is why projects with a strict... bunch of overlords?.. work best.

Well, I personally agree with this concept in theory- infact I have started several topics on this very thing in the past. However it just seems that most modders are more comfortable doing things to their own specifications even if that means a much larger workload. I will give you an example that involves me personally for example. I and another modder (sorry forgot who you are) are right now working on what is essentially the same mod- in essence a high poly redux of all the meshes in the game, however subtle differences in how we go about things will probably prevent the projects from ever merging. Personally while I appreciate the other modders work I still think the poly count is a little high and the lack of vertex colors on his meshes are something i have mixed feelings about- I may end up using their meshes in my game- but only after I have applied the fixes I would feel appropriate. Also I doubt this other modder who has gone through the trouble of creating brand new meshes for everything would appreciate my efforts to make the original games meshes higher poly.

In reality our combined efforts could probably produce a great mod- but coming to a general consensus seems like an almost insurmountable task in these parts- after all, modders do love variety and choice.

Once I tried to get all of the texturers who like me create little mini texture packs that only cover a small number of assets to ppol our resources- I was met with failure and I got plenty of excuses why this idea would not work, unfortunate but in the end I am glad that it didn't work out. The only way I can ensure absolute consistency in any large texture mod is if I do all of it myself. Ultimately the community seems to like it this way better anyways. Take a few textures from this pack and a few from that one to create just the right blend. I personally don't really care for the vast majority of compilation mods. I think that collaborations suffer from the same problems.

Personally however the thing I would most like to see is more compatibility between different mods. More on that later.

Modding is, and I'm sure always will be, anarchic. It just does not lend itself to stricter, more centralized forms of governance.

Welcome to these Forums, Gaylord (I saw you joined a few days ago, even if I have a strange feeling of déjà vu after reading your lines)

The main reason why large scale projects need something like guidelines and rules is because if we don’t have them everybody does whatever he want and nothing will fit together anymore.
Of course, it will be a lot of fun....but in the end some kind of fun that isn’t worth the effort to spend so much time on it like we and the other provience mods do, for example.

If a modder in the team has ideas but they don’t fit the project or the Elder Scrolls in general (no matter how refreshing they are) it has nothing to do with the intension of bringing the modder down or something like that if the admins and department heads say NO...also the workflow has to be organized and tasks with lower priority have to be on hold until the important things are done to ensure that other modders can do their work properly and in time. For example it is pointless and counterproductive if the main priority is focused on tilesets, flora and clutter and a 3d modeler in the team is working on new races or something similar that is not on the plan.

Those large scale projects have nothing to do with egoism or narrowmindedness, guidelines like Lore provide a lot of freedom for interpretation without breaking it.

Working together sounds very nice, and the idea of creating a mod that you could play without knowing where everything is and what's going to happen in every corner is intriguing.

I don't know about anyone else, but my problems with that sort of thing have more to do with commitments and meeting them. "Time is the fire in which we burn..." and there never seems to be enough time for everything. Life continually throws out surprises, and almost every surprise burns more of the time away. I am more comfortable working alone simply because I don't have to worry if it takes three moths to get back to a mod after a personal catastrophe or some such event.

For me, modding is this comfortable, casual thing that I do whenever I feel like it. A hobby. I prefer to go at my own pace. I've been on a "serious" design team before, and it feels less fun in many ways. On the other hand, collaboration can definitely be enjoyable in its own manner and other people are good to keep you motivated. Also, I think that it's perfectly possible for a group project to be comfortable and casual.

Currently, time is a huge factor for me and so committing to a group thing would be too inconvenient. It's better for me to just do my own thing. In the future, though, I can think of a group project or two that I would like to work on.

And you've been around long enough to say that with some authority

I agree that modding is about creativity and spontaneity, suddenly getting an idea and opening up the CS or Blender and getting on with it

I doubt I'd have the discipline or interest to meet another's deadline. I've turned down a few offers to join larger projects not because i don't believe in their projects but i only have limited time and want to devote that to what gives me the most pleasure rather than the pleasure of those who might download the mods.

I'm not sure how big the community is anymore but it is still very helpful, the CS forum still gets good responses for questions asked, I suspect the community is not big enough to support what you suggest Mus and that even if a project is never finished often the resources of that project are released and the modder still has a good time making new friends and attempting something they perhaps have never tried before.

I think just about everything I had on my mind has been said, except that one should remember Morrowind is a single player game. Most who love it, don't love it *despite* this, but *because* of this. Each modder, unless he/she is doing a request mod, usually has a personal vision of what he/she wants to see in their own game. That's not to say collaborations aren't possible, but simply that the odds are stacked against them from the moment a player chooses a single-player game.

In my experience artists generally like to live together, but work alone.

There are several large mods that manage to exist with large teams of people and little groups of dictators (like me) that manage them and guide their processes. It takes a certain type of people to contribute to these mods as you aren't always building your vision. Also these large mods tend to evolve over time with people coming and going. This results in long periods of time before they see results in many cases. I love working on team mods and being a part of a larger group working towards the same goal, but this isn't true of most modders that frequent these forums (if it were all of tamriel would be complete by now). You will always have these two groups of people and the group who can work with one another will always be smaller. I look forward to many more years of individual and team mods for TES III: Morrowind.

Also any of you who don't know yet and would like to be part of a large team mod follow any of the links in my signature and join up!

some people can work together. and some can't. people with similar interests have worked together to make great mods. like emma and grumpy with their companions for example. while with others it killed the mods. and besides, having more than one person working on similar things. you end up with more variety in the end, which is not a bad thing. for example vality and vurt both made bc tree mods. which give people a choice to what they want to see. so sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. so i'd say leave it up to whoever is working on it to make the choice they want. and see where the cards fall.

i agree!

hi

Erm.... hello?!


Now on about modding:What large mods can do is built things better, bigger and far more awesome in general than a single modder or even 2-3 modders can firstly due to their size and secondly due to the higher standards they tend to set. They may sometimes constrain the creativity of the modder and they are certainly not for everyone but working in such a mod can be very enjoyable and fun in its own way. Compromises have to be made in a big mod but the end result is usually far more satisfying than working single. You can concentrate more on making a small section of the mod exciting or grandiose or doing what you like best. In single person mods it's either about making them big but with lower quality or small with better quality, but if you want both quality and quantity large mods are a must simply because no single person can have the time to match them. Also there is no shortage of very large mods (just look at my signature or some of the signatures of those about me to find out more) so chances are your ideas will fit somewhere as long as you are accepting to others ideas and stick to the "theme" of the mod. And the end result can be very much worth it.

Wait? Modding is about making things that other people like :blink: New to me.

Modder Coordination - http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1194058-menial-task-exchange/

Vac is just funny in the opening post.

uh-huh! the customer is ALWAYS right.

..well..

Modding is also about making things that you like. Though if you're the only one that likes them you may be a bit weird...

Pointless post is pointless




That's not true. Every modder is a different person, and some do indeed have the patience and skill to make a large mod with good quality alone.

Don't make me come after you Wollibeebee.

@Yacoby, sometimes modding is about pleasing others. That again is up to the modder. Lots of people like to make things for themselves and others like to get praise from others for their work.

pew pew! :flamethrower:

I mostly do things for myself. But also to get response, to get better at modding. I really love to improve things & I guess it's always been that way. Then if ppl don't think it's an improvement I will glady redo things.

I wouldn't do as good job if I were in a team, then I would not be able to decide what to do & when.

I'm going to say when I mod it's completely from inspiration or something I'd like to see, BUT I do take heed of what others may or may not want and try to reconcile it with my "vision". However, team generated mods do need strong organization and leadership to come to fruitiion. Unfortunately, that why many WIPs don't make it past the "I have a grand vision forum post".