Morrowind or Oblivion, ES5

Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:43 am

more like oblivion but whit morrowind missing weapons
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Milad Hajipour
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 2:05 am

Neither? Take the aspects which were great in the games, and fix the ones that completely svcked.

Simple logic, no?


That's... pretty much what we've been discussing
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~Sylvia~
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 12:26 am

Well, I'm coming back to MW after playing OB for a long time.
1) The journal was done better in OB. Better organised, although I don't care for the quest markers. I'd rather read directions like in MW.

2) I prefer the MW dialogue system, although it was nice in OB so that the NPC faced you when you talked with them

3) "Readying" your spell and then hitting your "attack" button seemed kind of redundant in MW, plus there's no block button, and attacks are basic, only depending on which way you step. So I like the entire combat system in OB better.

3) Toggling sneak mode is more convenient in OB, instead of holding in your button like MW. The sneak crosshair in OB may have been more convenient, but it kinda feels like cheating. A person shouldn't have eyes in the back of their head to know when they're being watched.

4) Bartering system/ setup was done better in MW, although it may have been overpowered. A person shouldn't be able to sell an item back to the same merchant for more than the player bought it for.

5) The ownership issues from MW were thankfully fixed in OB, plus that little red hand icon comes in handy. Would be nice, while in 3rd person view, whatever you're looking at has red text to let you know it's already owned. Maybe make telekinesis spells blue text? Also knocking over and item then using the grab button to prop it back up shouldn't count as steeling. It should only be considered steeling if you actually put the item in your inventory. Plus, how does a shop keeper know so fast, if an item is stolen, unless it was origionally one of their own items. You should be able to sell stolen items to other people than just TG fences. TG fences should only be needed if your looking to buy or sell blackmarket items like skooma or dwermer artifacts, etc. I'm surprised varla and wlkynd stones weren't considered special artifacts by the empire like dwermer artifacts were. Also, only fences should be able to remove the red hand icon from stolen items. If you sell a stolen item to a shop keeper, the red hand icon should remain. IRL just having a stolen item in your posession, even though you didn't know it was stolen, happens to be a crime (posession of stolen propperty).
Edit: the more an item is worth, the sooner the notice goes up to the public that it is stolen. Maybe put in some more "red tape", but make a way possible to own archeological artifacts. legitimitely.

6) The menu system is a tossup between MW and OB for me. Being able to drop finished quest items would be nice. The grab feature in OB along with the drag and drop from the menu feature, from MW would be nice.

7) I like the enchanting and spell making system of OB minus all the restrictions; one should be able to enchant with paralyze, restore health & fatigue as they see fit. Also, if you can find artifacts of apparel and armor with multiple enchantments, there should be a way for the player enchant like that as well. Also bring back the on use enchantments, but have it eventually wear out and break permenantly like Daggerfall. Add parchments to the list of enchantable items, but make them only good for one use and not capable of constant effects; sort of like making your own scrolls.

That's all I can think of for now, but I'm sure there'll be more once I play MW farther.


Hit the nail on the head. MW enchanting and other spells capable from day one - not some "lecturn" you have to click on to do it. MW vast world with many plots and things going on. OB combat and mana regen and graphics. (Personally I hope we can have graphics as good as OB but streamlined to work on moderate comps of this day) Oblivion (at high res) was very crunch-heavy and hard to run on even a good comp today..... never mind one of 2006.
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John N
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 8:32 am

I've said I like MW's dialogue system better, but I realised one thing, how does a person express emotion through text? I'm thinking emoticons wouldn't be very immersive. :P

Morrowind was mind-altering for me. So many paths to take, a rich lore, non-scaled enemies, lots of different weapon types, consequences for joining certain factions, a compass & quest marker free interface. Oblivion was far better visually with atmospheric effects, blood, grass, flora, the quest journal layout, etc. But Oblivion lacks depth; the scaling system, the nerve-wracking 5 actor voice overs, the "easy" hidden exits for dungeons, the non-constricting classes (mages at lvl 35 wearing heavy armor using a shield). Every time I play Oblivion now I feel as if I'm playing a first person shooter and not a role playing game and I tend to get bored after playing for about 30 minutes due to the scaling system and the "ease" of the game. In Morrowind I was forced to explore, to spend an hour looking for a door on a beach, to read the books and lore, to really delve into the world of Tamriel. I loved it how I could "break" the game if I sold some piece of armor without knowing its importance. I loved it that I couldn't join every faction with one player, knowing that I would have to start a new character and play through a different faction line. I loved how I would have to traverse the entire dungeon or cave back to the surface instead of hitting a panel, opening a hidden door and returning to the front of the cave. The little drudgery's and pains helped to immerse myself into the game and that is what I think Oblivion lacks, immersion.

If Oblivion has done anything with it's dumbed down system, let's hope that it make the average gamer want to get more into hardcoe RPGs like MW. :D

Oops, my mistake. I misread then.

They didn't put any sort of companion share (except for Tribunal) because there were no "real" companions. Since the Elder Scrolls aims at a lone hero doing the kills, instead of a party-based RPG like Baldur's Gate.

But I sure would like companions sometimes. Passive companions who can help you. Such as the Fighters Guild warrior who swore an oath to kill a Daedroth in Morrowind. She would follow you around the daedric ruin and taunt the monster as you approached it. I loved that quest. :)

Or the naked barbarians who follow you. I would have liked to be able to at least give them a pair of pants. :P

Let's just hope the companions don't get in the way. In MW, I sleep in the mages guild of which I'm a member and as soon as the dark brotherhood comes after me, I'm left to fend for myself. Nobody steps in to help and when I take a swipe at the DB agent, apparantly my axe came to close to a MG member who's just off of my screne, then finally the whole MG steps in... to aid the DB agent no less. :facepalm: In OB just about everyone steps in to help you, but don't have good enough AI to stay out of the line of fire. If Beth does impliment some companion system in TESV, let's hope they find a happy medium.

Neither? Take the aspects which were great in the games, and fix the ones that completely svcked.

Simple logic, no?

One would hope so, but not necessarily so. I've given criticism before where the author asked me to be more constructive than just simply saying "It svcked". The author asked, "What svcked" and how would a person go about improving it. The author asked for specific suggestions without being too general/ generic. So I'm wondering, if we want Bethesda to get the next one right, we just might have to spell it out for them. Thankfully there's been an ongoing suggestions thread for that. :)

Hit the nail on the head. MW enchanting and other spells capable from day one - not some "lecturn" you have to click on to do it. MW vast world with many plots and things going on. OB combat and mana regen and graphics. (Personally I hope we can have graphics as good as OB but streamlined to work on moderate comps of this day) Oblivion (at high res) was very crunch-heavy and hard to run on even a good comp today..... never mind one of 2006.

Well, I also can go for the enchanting and spell making type of services they had in MW, but I was referring more the restrictions on what type of spells you could use. Sure have it so you can't enchant or make a new spell unless your skill is capable of casting it, but why was restore health/ fatigue and paralyze restricted from the enchanting list even though my character was capable of casting those spells? If Beth is worried it'll make things overpowered, then they should enable the NPC AI use the same resources as the PC. Maybe impliment it differently for the NPCs than how the PC uses it, but put those same resources into their AI, if possible. I always felt that "tying my hand behind my back" was a cheap excuse/ way of making the game/ AI harder.
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Doniesha World
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 7:05 am

I say a little bit of both. The weapons and some equipment of Morrowind, but everything else from Oblivion.
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LittleMiss
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 1:50 am

Somebody quote me on this:

Morrowind = Xp, A good solid build usable today
Oblivion = Vista, Under appreciated and better than people claim
TES 5 = Win 7, A finished improved version of Vista?

Okay,I agree completely.

Most certainly Morrowind.

One of the biggest things that i want to see brought back is just the variety of items and equipment combinations. I want to be able to wear two different types of pauldrons at the same time. I want to wear a robe over my armor. I want chitin and dreugh armor back. I just worry that its going in the opposite direction. I mean, oblivion was vastly dumbed down from morrowind in the item area, and fallout 3, if were counting it, was dumbed down past oblivion. In F3 you could equip an outfit, hat, and weapon. Oblivion was curiass, greeves, helmet, gauntlets/gloves, boots, and a weapon. I want it to go back to curiass, left pauldron, right pauldron, greeves, left boot, right boot, left gauntlet/glove, right gauntlet/glove, helmet, robe, shirt, and pants. I've missed that level of customization so much.

Thats actually one more item than the first two fallouts.
http://firsthour.net/screenshots/fallout/fallout-vault-15-inventory-rope.jpg
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Alexis Estrada
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 6:51 am

This is kind of funny. Everything you said about Oblivion, that it was more atmospheric and felt like a real world, is what a lot of people say was the best thing about Morrowind.

What I meant was pretty much the prettiness of the game.
This may be because I'm use to having good graphics, so I thought that all of the effects of Oblivion where miles better than Morrowind.

Overall, Morrowind dungeons were better designed, but the default layout of Oblivions I thought were better. Morrowind just had rocks sticking out of the walls, but Oblivion had stalagmites and fog and creepy glows everywhere.

Another thing I liked about Morrowinds though is that there are some parts where you actually need to jump over pools of lava and whatnot, I did like that a little bit.

Morrowind's dungeons= better designed
Oblivion's= prettier

At first, I hated the fatigue, failing system of Morrowind, but as soon as I found a good trainer and leveled up, I liked the failing system better.
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Miss Hayley
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:30 pm

At first, I hated the fatigue, failing system of Morrowind, but as soon as I found a good trainer and leveled up, I liked the failing system better.

What about the fatigue system?
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Courtney Foren
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:32 pm

If I have to choose between the two, then I would rather ES-V be more like Morrowind. The main reason that I was disappointed with Oblivion is because Beth decided to try to reinvent the game, rather than use what worked and build upon it. Unfortunately, this is what they seem to do with every new title. Personally, I would prefer that they build upon what they have and try to make it better, then add new content. Instead, they build each game from the ground up so that every game is unique from the others -- a stand-alone title. This is a mistake, IMO.
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Harry Leon
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 11:00 pm

That's... pretty much what we've been discussing

Sorry dude, major tl;dr on this thread. I replied from the first page.

But my opinion stands. ^_^
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trisha punch
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 2:19 am

In terms of atmosphere, diversity, immersion, world-design, fast-travel, etc. like Morrowind.

In terms of combat and magic, like Oblivion.

I'd like to see a game not simplified for people who have no patience or intelligence. No quest-markers, no fast traveling all the time, no spoken dialogue (because it's shorter, just don't voice it and make it more rich like in MW).

I don't care if it has the greatest graphics ever, Morrowind is of 2002, and still looks great to me. Oblivion was far too much eye candy and too less TES.
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Everardo Montano
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:31 pm

What about the fatigue system?

How at first you always fail, but once I started leveling up, then I thought it was cool, and made me feel good about myself again.

I was sad because I always failed, so it got boring. Then when I trained, I got better, and started failing less, and liked it more!
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Johnny
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 6:22 am

How at first you always fail, but once I started leveling up, then I thought it was cool, and made me feel good about myself again.

I was sad because I always failed, so it got boring. Then when I trained, I got better, and started failing less, and liked it more!


That's not the fatigue system...
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Victoria Bartel
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 10:13 am

Daggerfall
Character creation

what was so great about daggerfall's character creation? i have never played it so i'm just curious
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Sarah Edmunds
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 3:30 am

In terms of atmosphere, diversity, immersion, world-design, fast-travel, etc. like Morrowind.

In terms of combat and magic, like Oblivion.

I'd like to see a game not simplified for people who have no patience or intelligence. No quest-markers, no fast traveling all the time, no spoken dialogue (because it's shorter, just don't voice it and make it more rich like in MW).

I don't care if it has the greatest graphics ever, Morrowind is of 2002, and still looks great to me. Oblivion was far too much eye candy and too less TES.

i disagree with all of this, dialogue should most definitely be spoke, otherwise we wouldn't know in what tone they are talking in and it would take away alot from the gameplay experience. fast traveling should be there also, if you don't want to use it don't, no one is forcing you to. and quest markers should be there too. maybe not for everything (like showing the character exactly where the quest item is) but it still should be there. i am not saying you are wrong, i just disagree IMO
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Sophie Payne
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 8:36 am

For guild advancements-morrowind

For spell casting-morrowind

For travel-morrowind
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Sammygirl500
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 6:15 am

i disagree with all of this, dialogue should most definitely be spoke, otherwise we wouldn't know in what tone they are talking in and it would take away alot from the gameplay experience. fast traveling should be there also, if you don't want to use it don't, no one is forcing you to. and quest markers should be there too. maybe not for everything (like showing the character exactly where the quest item is) but it still should be there. i am not saying you are wrong, i just disagree IMO


Spoken dialogue has huge drawbacks. For one thing it makes every line of dialogue more expensive and take more disc space... that's why Oblivion had like, 1/10th the dialogue of Morrowind. No thank you. Secondly, spoken dialogue means modders are at a big disadvantage because they're not going to have access to the voice actors. All the quests in my Oblivion added by mods are creepily dialogue-free. No thank you x 2.

Also he didn't say "no fast traveling" he said "no fast traveling ALL THE TIME" e.g. fast travel should be integrated into the world and something you need to learn about and plan ahead with instead of mindlessly just clicking on the map where you want to go.
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Rinceoir
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 2:10 am

Spoken dialogue has huge drawbacks. For one thing it makes every line of dialogue more expensive and take more disc space... that's why Oblivion had like, 1/10th the dialogue of Morrowind. No thank you. Secondly, spoken dialogue means modders are at a big disadvantage because they're not going to have access to the voice actors. All the quests in my Oblivion added by mods are creepily dialogue-free. No thank you x 2.

Also he didn't say "no fast traveling" he said "no fast traveling ALL THE TIME" e.g. fast travel should be integrated into the world and something you need to learn about and plan ahead with instead of mindlessly just clicking on the map where you want to go.


Thank you, you may have put it in better words than I did. I am not against fast travel, but would like to see it implemented like in Morrowind: boats, guild guides, silt striders, things like that.

I also think that if dialogue is well written, there is no need to have it voiced to feel the tone it is spoken with. Also, in Oblivion some dialogue was overacted, some sounded just plain dumb (in my opinion), which is more of an atmosphere and experience breaker than an enhancer. If you read a book, you'll hear every line of dialogue spoken in your head, your imagination makes it fit with the characters, which is much more to my liking.

Another thing that annoyed me was that a handful of voice actors voiced the dialogue of a couple of hundred NPC's, too many of them sounded exactly the same.

I liked the voiced parts of Morrowind, like some greetings as you approach an NPC, or things they randomly say. But completely spoken dialogue, please no.

The quest-markers were just plain stupid. Thank you, but you do not need to hold my hand when I am on a quest. If I need to find an NPC in a town, I'll head to that town and ask for him. Directions given by NPC's should be somewhat vague, sometimes even wrong, just go exploring and you'll find stuff by yourself. It should be noted that in Oblivion, since most loot was completely random, there was little sense in searching a complete dungeon to find yet another set of calipers and a head of lettuce, and maybe some gold. In Morrowind, searching around led to interesting discoveries, and sometimes very useful and unique artifacts. It was worth the effort to look around. I can understand that people in Oblivion feel the need to run toward a quest marker to find something, seeing as they really want to get out of there again as fast as possible. This is not how I like to play a game. I don't want to run from quest marker to quest marker, just to get it over with, because everything in between is not interesting.

But I'll wait and see how TES V shall be. I have some faith in the developers, they have proven they have every ability and talent to create a unique and beautiful gem of a game.
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!beef
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:46 pm

Sig(h)
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mollypop
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 3:25 am

what was so great about daggerfall's character creation? i have never played it so i'm just curious
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I0NO2buEEs
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Jessie Rae Brouillette
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:13 pm

I think it should be more like fallout 3, with the TES level system, and universe.
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Sophh
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 8:11 am

Nah. Oblivion was more elegant and streamlined than Morrowind. gamesas probably shouldn't have removed some of the cooler spells and weapons from the roster though. People frequently mention the combat was better - true, but still has much room for improvement.

I'd be happy with just more Oblivion, though of course I expect that gamesas will implement something a bit more grandiose and daring.
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Amanda savory
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 6:25 am

Maybe Beth could get rid of the game added quest markers but keep the ability to stick markers on your own map like in OB (shift+click). Sometimes I use my own map markers to remind me of a personal errand I wanted to do, or that I had some of my own business to do at whatever location, while I'm in the area. Helps me to reduce the number of double trips. Also would be nice if Beth brought back the map notes capability from MW and integrate them with the map markers. Have your own map that you can make sticky notes & markers all over the place. Sort of like a map on a bulletin board and thumb tacs in it.
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Dragonz Dancer
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:38 pm

Maybe Beth could get rid of the game added quest markers but keep the ability to stick markers on your own map like in OB (shift+click). Sometimes I use my own map markers to remind me of a personal errand I wanted to do, or that I had some of my own business to do at whatever location, while I'm in the area. Helps me to reduce the number of double trips. Also would be nice if Beth brought back the map notes capability from MW and integrate them with the map markers. Have your own map that you can make sticky notes & markers all over the place. Sort of like a map on a bulletin board and thumb tacs in it.


Would be nice if the map was completely without any notes & markers when you start the game, and you have to mark everything yourself (or NPC's mark something for you).
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T. tacks Rims
 
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Post » Sat May 28, 2011 6:34 am

I'd much prefer if the game is more like neither of them. TES V should be a fresh experience and a big improvement over both, not a rehash of the previous titles. Bethesda will do what it wants, anyway, so all we can hope is that it takes the best ideas from each of the earlier games and addresses the problems with both. So far, they're not perfect, but doing better at creating enjoyable "sandbox" worlds than any of their competitors.
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GEo LIme
 
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