Thanks for taking the considerable time and effor to argue your counter opinion- I fully respect what you say because of it.
However, respect is not the same as agreement.
Yes it was a tedious business getting to places in Morrowind which were off the silt-strider tracks. That's not to say it was not valid that to get to somewhere the first time you actually had to work out that you turned right over the hill once past the dwarven ruins instead of running into the sea and swimming past the cliff. You also took wrong turnings and found something you were not looking for. That is true to life, gives you more access to otherwise unknown parts of the game and protracted even the most dogged main-quest-line player's experience to something with more of an epic feel. You stumbled into more things in Morrowind. In Oblivion you just did what you were told and finished before getting into double figures- blinking unebelievably at how quickly it was done. I'm used to (given my age) main quest lines which occupy the vast majority of the gameplay time. Having solid, plentiful and engaging side quests, some of which are more fascinating, dark and intricate than the main quest, creates an aura around the gaming world. Who cares about some precious heirloom or an act of petty revenge when the world's about to end? Just about everyone. If an asteroid were about to hit the planet, forget about all humanity pulling together to solve the crisis- there would even be people making money and political capital out of it!
The most tedious thing I found about getting lost in Morrowind was the endless cliff racer attacks.
What the old text adventures had was the need for you to think about what to do or say in situations. You had to 'wait' three times (iirc) to get out of the goblin's dungeon. The trouble with this was choosing the right wording that would be recognised by the program. Morrowind gave you a list of topics to talk about- close but not quite perfect 10. The best part of Morrowind in this event was that you did not get large signs appearing telling you what to do. You had to work it out most of the time.
Dumbing down makes dumber. Look at WOW- each upgrade reduces the complexity of questing and the wikkis are required reading if you are to be accepted into a group as not knowing a fight marks you as a 'noob'. I like to puzzle things out for myself. Success is a main driving force in the human mind- failure is underrated as a useful learning tool.
Well I guess it's a good thing I don't play, and don't like, WoW :celebration: :celebration: :celebration:
Thing is - I agree 100% with what you said about Morrowind, about the adventures, the journey, the getting lost and encountering unintended things.
Thing is - I believe all of that exists in Skyrim as well. Maybe not so much Oblivion, but yea, even Oblivion too.
See, when it comes to Skyrim, I don't fast travel. I mean, sometimes I use the carriage system to get to a town across the map, but I don't use the fast travel system. Because if I fast travel, I can't have those experiences like you spoke about.
But even with quest arrows and map markers, you better believe, without using the fast travel system, I have had those adventures in Skyrim. It was my first such adventure that made me realize I
was playing a successor to Morrowind. The first time I made the trip from Winterhold to Whiterun, I encountered plenty of those "unexpected" encounters, and had that sense of journey, and many times in my adventures through Skyrim, I have taken that wrong turn and stumbled across something I didn't expect to.
Because here's the way I look at it. Yes, the quest arrow tells me that my destination is to the south west, but that's all it does. It doesn't tell me how to get past the obstacles between me, and my location in the south west. It doesn't tell me how to get over that mountain. Do I go over it? Is there a path that leads me through it? Do I need to go around it? Do I need to go out of my way in the opposite direction to find another road?
So many times, I make a turn in the road thinking it's the way I need to go, but hey! That road actually took me to a dead end. Instead of being the road to where I needed to get to, this road actually led me to a bandit hideout. But it's not just any standard bandits. It turns out these specific bandits have been hijacking trade caravans coming through the area. All of a sudden, I've begun a mini-quest.
Or... as I'm going through the mountains, on my way to my destination, I encounter another bandit camp. But again, it's not just any bandit camp. Their hideout is just outside the location of a legendary artifact. By coming to this camp, I've learned of this legendary item, and now I'm off venturing for that item.
All that stuff you talk about in Morrowind, it is
in Skyrim. I've experienced it. Those examples up above are just but a couple examples of my experiences.
I bought a dragon claw off of a shopkeeper. She didn't know what it was for. So it's been a personal quest of mine to find out what it's for. In my quest to figure it out, I still haven't found the location that I'm looking for, but my search has had me find a bunch of other memorable experiences and encounters.
I just can't agree that sense of quest and adventure is gone.
As far as how quickly Oblivion was done - it's only as quick as you make it. It took me 5 years, and a final 90 hour playthrough to finish the main quest of Oblivion.
Sure, it's short if you just plow right through it. But you're not necessarily meant to. It took me a 90 hour playthrough to finish the main quest of Oblivion, and it took me 90 hours to finish the main quest of Skyrim.
I don't know. I don't want to say this in a way that's condescending because you have articulated your points well, and you've done so without insulting gamers who disagree with you, and I appreciate that and respect that, so know that this isn't intended to be condescending.
But where many people claim that Oblivion and Skyrim "hold your hand", those games don't hold my hand because I don't let them. I know that map markers and quest arrows are there, but those don't take away from my journey. Those arrows and markers don't tell me how to overcome the obstacles between me and my objective. It's still up to me to figure out how to get to that quest marker, just like in Morrowind it's up to me to figure out how to get to the big yellow blocks on my map. I know there's a fast travel system in place, but I don't use it, because it will take away from the experience I am looking for in Skyrim. Some of the best experiences I've had in Skyrim have come from just journeying from point A to point B, and experiencing the world, and everything it had to throw my way.
» Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:02 am 
I don't insult console users, I insult the console. Sorry you took this so personally. 
