Yes, Darknut did on page two. Still, I think you may have a point about the availibility and popularity of this if none of the major sites have it - as you say, look at grVulture's "Ultimate Textures v3.0". Sure, if it goes ahead this complilation may exist out there somewhere, leaching off of the work of others, but if it isn't supported here and on the major sites, does it really matter all that significantly? The internet is full of jerks, but we can ignore them. And is no one else astounded that this compilation has the audacity to include MGE, with the constant change and progress that is being made there?

I'm not saying ignore it, I'm trying to say it isn't some huge thing that will determine the fate of the future of MW modding.

Didn't know that Darknut asked. Did kingspin just say no?

I hope your right .... & maybe I am overreacting ....... it late here & I'm mad ... & Yes I ask .... & he said he would remove them & I was trying to give Kingpix the benefit of the doubt ... but Then I saw the those posts on his forum where his fans were telling him use our stuff & him saying he was already working on a new version. that kind of got me fired up.

If kingpix ..does the right thing ..I'll be the first to apologize to him about all this ranting. ...


I was having a pretty good night until then ..... working on the My luggage mod.

This is very contradictory imo.

The idea was to bring this to the avrage gamer and to the masses, and now it's going to only reside on some back-alley site somewhere where only few can download and reach it?

---

Anyhow.

I've been here a long time, I don't want to see any more people leave because of these things, but if it has to come to it, then I understand that there are good reasons. No more.
As of now. I hope and believe Kingpix is fixing things up, and I think people should wait for another official word about things before they go about it discussing this again.

Ah, the luggage mod! I will not even go into how much I love the Discworld series. *chuckle* That would be a tragic loss.

Your right I know none of the respected Host sites would post this mod after they got the lowdown ... I do realize that.


I'm cooling off a bit .... but this little drama, no matter how it turns out, has made me reevaluate how I do things things modwise.

I'm just wondering, did you put in the readme to not use it without asking or whatever?
I hope your changes don't affect the mods you put out.

Well, if Kinpix is going to use work that explicitly does not give permission for free use, then yes, it should reside on "some back-alley site somewhere where only few can download and reach it." If he actually gets permission for what he uses or he only uses that for which (preferably explicit, but possibly implicit) permission already exists, then, and he gives credit for what he uses, then it may deserve some support.

Still, the idea of an installer for this seems a bit silly. If it didn't want to be "just another mod list", wouldn't it have been easier and less offensive just to pack an archive of favourite mods along with basic installation instructions?

Interestingly enough, Darknut and Connary have both tended towards what now appear to be unfortunately minimalist readme's, lacking the usual permissions sections that some modders add. Though I see that Connary is possibly taking steps on PES to correct this, and appears to be deleting at least some of his mods (looks on first glace like everything but the bestiary). Of course, presumably most of them will be made obsolete by the release of his compendium.

Honestly I like the idea mentioned earlier with a downloaded that will download and install a list of mods for you. It's a WIN/WIN.

And please Connary, don't let this little conflict affect your release! There is absolutely nothing I have been looking forward to more when it comes to Morrowind.

Sorry to say .... I was inconsistent in that regard because this situation never occurred to me .... I think some of them say you can use them ... but give me credit ....

which they didn't do until all this blew up ...

I've been all over that website & the youtube vid pages & there is nothing anywhere I could find that ever mentions "any" of the mod makers ... its obvious that was the last thing any of them were thinking about ... & it should have been the first.

What was in the readme's is irrelevant anyway .. 1: They obviously didn't read them because some of the mods used def have "do not use without permission" in the readme & 2 After Me & the other said we didn't want our stuff used they should respect that regardless of whats is in the readme.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9127/87473091.jpg

I hope all the modders get this sorted out, this whole issue annoys me and I hope it's gone soon. Good luck.

EDIT: Woops just realized how selfish that sounds. I hope connary isn't getting rid of his work.

uhmm
I just wanted to say that the Rev 1.1 is a step that replaces the textures of darknut and connary, putting the other (under permit)!

Evidently the deletion of my mods was necessary since all of they become obsolete with the near release of the Compendium mod. I found the majority ugly intents, lol.
This incident only accelerate things.

I need legal advice about how to share the compendium material but maintaining an absolute control on the net. In other side never will be uploaded.
Creative commons, copy? i dont know right now. But this mod will only see the light in a absolute controlled way.

Ah, that is good news.

I don't know if there's a file size limit, but I know that you can attach archived files to emails. If this is the route you want to go (though I'm saddened to hear it), perhaps don't upload it at all and just email it to people who you trust not to distribute it (though I would hope I'm on that list )

What about using your website to require a registered account (like CanadianIce does) and terms of use agreement before allowing download?

All of us already have to register an account to access mods on PES, so nothing new.
Posting on your own website gives you ultimate control of updates, content, and access.
ToUA would give you the legal control while still providing free public access to dl.


[edit] I grant anyone the rights to make use of this information. Credit is not necessary, but you must name your first born after me!

While I think people have been reasonably well-behaved - as far as the rules are concerned - in this thread, the feelings are obviously running very high and it's a pretty heated debate. People are feeling angry and helpless and it can only go downhill from here.

To the modders making the compilation:

- Mod compilations are generally discouraged by the modding community because they are, by default, obsolete as soon as they are made. New versions of mods are released all the time, so you're always working with the "old" one.
- "Lazy" for compilation users is probably the wrong word. It's just that if they do not take the time and trouble to work out what is actually a pretty easy installation process, they will be unable to troubleshoot if things go wrong. They have to understand the process a little bit, just as all computer users need to know a little bit about computers or they'll be putting their hand up and asking for help every time Windows freezes. Some things are complicated to use, but they are also the most problematic. If you're not confident enough even to install it, you probably shouldn't be using it. There's plenty of mods and utilities I won't use because they're beyond my scope of expertise. I even managed to install them right but uninstalled them quickly when I found out how out of depth I was, and how little I understood them to fix them if they went wrong. That's not too awful with just one mod/utility, but you'd be facing a full reinstall with a compilation.
- Compilations are discouraged by the community because they are, by default, restrictive. I wouldn't have picked all those mods as the "best" because my tastes differ from the next person's. Sure, you say, at least it's better than the default, but if the person using them doesn't like them they're no better off than they were before and will still have to root around for a texture pack they like.

(None of the above is "instruction" but it is explanation of why your mod has not been warmly received by some users here.)

- You just do not ever use a resource if permission is denied by the author. I note that you are now removing these, but it's best to remove the mod and all "promotion" of it until you are sure that every modder whose work you are using approves of its use.

To the modders whose work has been used:

- If "drama" like this appears on the forums, please just report the thread. You've done well, as usual, not to let this turn into a mudfight but I'd rather know about these threads sooner than later.
- This situation appears, I think, every six months. I've certainly seen dozens of such threads. The conclusion is always the same: you are entitled to give strong and clear expression of how you like your mods to be used but ultimately have no absolute control over it. You just have to hope people are respectful towards you - as we all should be - but you do have to let go a little bit because it's absolutely inevitable that at some point someone is going to do something with your mod that you don't like. You can, of course, remove your mods from the public arena, but this is disappointing for those who respectfully enjoy their use. Unless you have a very good reason for doing so - you've found out that you've inadvertently included something "illegal" or your mod doesn't work - you should avoid pulling mods down because that is just as frustrating to everyone else as disrespectful use is to you.
- On any major website - Planet Elder Scrolls, ElricM, Nexus, etc - you have the option of contacting the host (APY, Monica21/ElricM and Dark0ne respectively) and asking them to remove the mod. If they agree that the mod contradicts their own codes of fair use - such as a mod being uploaded without relevant permissions - they will remove them. Please do contact site hosts in these situations because they are experienced with mods and modders and will be sympathetic towards you.

To everyone:

- If someone insults you, hit the report button and walk away. If someone riles you up and you want to type something snarky in response, report and walk. Do not "bite back" on these forums. It just means twice the work as I have to tackle both sides.
- If you have a problem with another site or forum please bring those issues up with that site or forum and do not bring those arguments here. You may not "bash" other sites here, where the targets of your ire are frequently unable to defend themselves. This is a general point of courtesy and one we apply across the forums here.

I'm doing to lock this up now because I think it's gone beyond the point of usefulness. Thank you for your understanding, and I hope this issue is resolved to the satisfaction of all very soon.

If the modder wants to start a release thread once the mod is complete with full and express permissions of use from all the modders whose work is included, then that is fine. In the meantime, this discussion is closed.