yes, i'm sure many goodytwoshoes antislavers would love fall of morrowind, and some more intelligent ppl with good sense of black humor and irony. (Yes I have absolutely no respect for first kind of ppl as their quantity and tastes are main reason so many good stories are [censored] into simpleminded good vs evil stories with bad guys loosing in the end, Remember my post about morrowind being my true homeland?)

I absolutely loved Morrowind, Its culture, Its people, Their traditions and spent years playing Morrowind. can't say same for Cyrodiil, I could not care less about anything being destroyed there save for Ayleid architecture,

Unless this is one of the many other tragedies that occur in tamriel in this period it just doesnot make sense. Destroying the most interesting and popular province ...

I really hope this was not done to set stage for Elderscrolls MMO game. that would be just to low..

Umm, it seems to me like Bethesda had planned this for quite a while now. Vivec himself stated that if the people lost faith in him (i.e, he loses his powers) he would not be able to sustain the moon over Vivec, and it would be freed. And remember The main point of Morrowind's MQ was to destroy the Heart of Lorkhan (The only source of the Tribunals power).

Doesn't take a genius to figure out what happens next.

well actually if you saw giant rock suspended in air outside your house at about hundred feet high in the air, would you really consider its fall would destroy entire country ? all I can picture it do is fall down into water with a big splash.

As I remember all that moon was supposed to do was destroy vivec not whole morrowind, and the resulting volcano eruption of such magnitude seems like side effect it triggered. and it was as i understand Volcano not falling moon that caused the catastrophe.

so all you could possibly see coming from vivecs statement is destruction of vivec, maybe major damages to vvardenfel, not the destruction of mainland surely?

It still had its original momentum, vivec didn't stop it from moving, he stopped it in time. Vivec loses power, rock continues in time at full speed. Personally I like this turn of events and am curious as to how the Dunmer as a people will move on. Revert to worship of the daedra or assimilate into imperial culture? Possible alliance now with Skyrim? Will they retaliate at some point against Black Marsh?

Also, the mainland wasn't entirely destroyed. The argonians decided to take advantage of the situation to get revenge. Dunmer fled to Cyrodiil and Solstheim. Volcanic eruptions are not an eternity of destruction either. The area will be settled again in the future.

umm was Helseth killed?
I think more epic scale things are bound to happen that will also influence dunmer, what do you think?
I can't see this as kind isolated tragedy event, and see it more like part of something big.





depends on whether there will come out charismatic strong leader to guide them, dunmer were saved and guided by veloth once, united and saved again by Nerevar,
I also can't see how the hell Empire survives all this, I mean at least Nords are bound to turn against them, and most likely empire will loose summerset isles and wallenwood/elswayr.

and who was choosen as new emperor? what Infernal city says about this?


good to know, Argonians could not just slaughter dunmer like that. They are used to rogue fights in the swamps, I don't think they even have standing army, or much experience in assaulting cities. and dunmer have skilled well equipped warriors

We don't know yet if Helseth was killed. Personally I hope he and Barenziah survived -- I liked Ted Peterson's interpretation of him over the years.

The novel says a warlord named Titus Mede took the throne -- he probably saw power lying in the streets and wanted to put an end to a chaotic situation in Cyrodiil. I don't get the feeling that the Council appointed him. "The Infernal City" says that he has a son named Attrebus who's around 22 in the year 4E40. The empire by then is reduced to not much more than the province of Cyrodiil from the sound of things, with Mede attempting to put the pieces back together.

"Titus Mede had been -- and was -- many things. A soldier in an outlaw army, a warlord in Colovia, a king in Cyrodiil, and Emperor." (The Infernal City, p. 108)

"I took this city with under a thousand men." (p. 109)

How about "all of the above?"

I think the endless possibilities are exciting. I can't wait for the next installment of either game and/or novel.

I personally enjoyed the destruction; The relationship between the refugee Dunmer and the Solsthiem Nords will definitely have interesting outcomes, along with the mentions of the new Great Houses. (Jaroon and Sul)

Starting with OP - Vvardenfell is an island in the center and north of Morrowind. There is no evidence to suggest it was the most populated part of Morrowind - far from it.

Vvardenfell is less than 1/5 of the landmass of the province as a whole - well likely a lot less! Check the map.

There were 2 dunmer cities there, Vivec and Balmora. (Remember that Ald'ruhn was already gone? ) + the relatively low-population Telvanni enclaves + some Imperial settlers. The truly big dunmer cities were on the mainland anyways. Sure Ald'ruhn had been re-designated the Redoran Capital beofre it's destruction - but it was still new to that role.

So a corner of Morrowind with only 2 sizable cities suffered a catastophe ... 1/10 of the population killed at max? And any elite troops still stationed there. Remember that after the Fall of Dagoth Ur the need for a large contingent at the Ghost Gate would be gone bar politicking. That left the Ordinators at Vivec and any of the Forts that may have been garrisoned.

Any ports on the mainland would have been hit if there was a tsunami - is there any mention of a tsunami? Okies, it looks like the dunmer are not really sailors - Only Vivec and the Imperials had sizable ports. Same on the mainland. The dunmer can and do sail - especially the Telvanni but most of their cities tend to be inland. They are a people of fire and foot mainly but unlike the Imperials those with good magical powers can fly and levitate. And there is the Mages Guild - no one has talked about the teleporters in the Mages Guild which can teleort to any mages guild in Morrowind - including Mournhold/Almalexia - bet they did great business before they left the island. It appears the whole island did not disappear so although there was a great eruption it was not like an atomic bomb. That makes for vital minutes/hours whatever. Now what would you do if you could pay the Mages Guild price? Stand there and die or flee? And there were fishing villages etc ... there would be boats there ... etc

So those that could on the coasts sailed off and those that could in the cities used the Mages Guild to teleport out. That means a lot died in the eruption - lava can travel pretty fast - but first it would have run down the established channels to the sea before they were overwhelmed - if they were.

-----

Helseth - was he still on the throne? Did he make a deal with the Argonians/Hist? What was helseth's relationship with the rest of Morrowind by that time?What happened with Dres - did they fight with Hlaalu - did they carry on slaving? Lot of unanswered questions.

One thing that seems significant to me about the rock - the dunmer built tunnels, rooms, caverns inside it. they could have carved the whole damn thing into tiny pieces and ground them to dust - then when Vivec released hold of it - nada happens - just a cloud of dust. The rock was a massive threat and intended to be such.

I checked the novel, and here's a mention of tsunami: "It wasn't enough that the ministry fell; the impact caused the volcano that was the heart and namesake of Vvardenfell to explode. Ash, lava, and tidal waves had done their work, and when that was calmed, the Argonians had come, eager to repay what survived of his [Sul's] people for millennia of abuse and enslavement. Of course, those that had settled in southern Morrowind were likely regretting it now, as Umbriel moved over their villages." (p. 261)

Later, Sul says to the character Vuhon that the latter had " . . . destroyed our city and our country, left our people to be driven to the ends of the earth." (p. 276)

Those are good points about possible teleportation or sailing away from Morrowind, though. I hope we find out more in the second novel and in TES V as to whether Helseth died and how many other Dunmer survived.

Can I get a link to where I can read this?
I've heard alot about it.

http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/5th_era_loveletter.shtml

Interesting that it mentions the Scathing Bay, which is in the novel "The Infernal City": the water surrounding the crater where the Ministry hit.

Thanks syronj - I guess the author meant shockwaves - even if the 'rock' was called a moon.

I have a feeling that despite picking many neat points of Lore Greg Keyes played fast and loose with his descriptions and I bet some devs were fuming and very anxious to get key stuff in ^^

As for Umbriel that looks to be a comparatively gradual process. Can we assume that a substantial number of the population survived to leave the former Province. How fast did Umbriel travel? How many dunmer were able to walk/teleport/run/lev/ride/sail out of it's way and remain in Morrowind?

Mind you when did the Argonians arrive? After Umbriel had left? Not if I read your quote aright - they arrived before Umbriel so were they caught by it too?

The damage to Morrowind as a whole from Umbriel appears to be from disruption to the normal and delicate workings of the country and the shock = a breakdown in the normal provision of the basics needed to support a civilisation as much as the numbers killed by the thing.

All in all I am not yet certain Mr Keyes is fully aware of the difference between playing ES and writing his own books. Wish he had been an ES player.

ps - seem to remember that the most massive damage comes from a volcano when there is an eruption followed by an explosion. The way it works - as with Krakatoa is that when there is a massive breach of the volcanoe's wall and the ocean rushes in = superheated steam and that then provides the force+++ but that does not appear to be the case here. Vvardenfell is a huge island. It has a very substantial bedrock. and the cone of the volcano is thousands of feet above the waterline. So we have a massive eruption with Red Mountain's cone being far too high above the sea to let it in. It is not a caldera.

Anything far enough out to sea would have had a good chance to survive the tsunami as it is when a tsunami reaches a coast that it gets most destructive

If there had been a massive breach of the cone sufficient to let in the ocean there would likely have been no sea left ^^ and yeah there would have been a 'nuclear winter' so it was more a massive eruption that did the damage except to Vivec itself. I expect the the impact of the rock and that would have caused a Tsunami - that would have been directed southwards. So perhaps the impact caused a tsunami which would have travelled south - out towards the mainland. Water would have been drained from the beaches of the Island ... oops and Solstheim would have been in trouble too if the Mainland was ... and then water would have rushed back in. Aaargh.

Shocks from the volcano may have been different. Hard to judge that

I would imagine the shock of that impact upset the balance within the volcano to such an extent that the resulting eruption was far more severe than previous instances so this time the effects were not limited to the ashlands. There could have been an explosion if sufficient build up of gasses and such had been taking place within the volcano. fortunately for our dreams that would likely have left an area uninhabitable for some time but partially recognisable.

Ashlander culture would be hit hard sadly, i wonder if anyone survived. I loved listening to bells near ashlander camps

I wonder if anyone here played Longest Journey and Dreamfall ?

The book seems to indicate the ministry hit several years after the Oblivion Crisis; it's not many years after, though, because Sul mentions it happened forty years before the time of the novel. Sul and Attrebus travel to where Vivec City had stood and find it's a wasteland with the sea still boiling after forty years; Sul mentions at one point that the Argonians didn't stay in that area, though some apparently settled in southern Morrowind not long after the Red Year judging from the quote.

Umbriel travels around 30 miles every 24 hours if I read correctly. It would have killed, and raised as an undead army, all Argonians and non-Argonians in its path from Lilmoth to Morrowind. I don't know how wide its radius of effect is as it passes over these lands. Vuhon mentions that his destination is the Imperial City.

I finished the novel. Morrowind... my Morrowind is gone. It was hard to believe this could happen, and the raids from Black Marsh during the aftermath was a low blow. Even after Helseth outlawed slavery, they felt the need to kick a wounded nation while it was down! I have no sympathy for slavers, but thousands of innocent Dunmer were slain or driven from their broken, native land forever cut off from their homes and ancestral grounds. I could only imagine that the remaining Dunmer population is in the ten-thousands, maybe less.

Where was the Nerevarine when this happened? (assuming that the Nerevarine is canon.) Was he killed in the blast? Likely something we should have heard about. Did he disappear, and why? If the reincarnation of Nerevar was half the Mer he was, he would have done something to permanently rid the problem of the Ministry, and he most certainly would not have let Black Marsh invade without dealing them and extremely painful lesson. The Nerevarine slew immensely powerful false gods, has the eldritch Tools of Kagrenac at his disposal, and the favor of Azura. I wouldn't think even for a moment that if he was around this would have happened, or at least he'd be trying to reclaim Morrowind and restore the Dunmer to their rightful place.

At least that's what I would have done anyway... I guess they didn't want "deus ex machina" characters getting into the plot.

(And after all the slavers I killed and slaves I freed! :swear: )

The Nerevarine was said in Oblivion rumors to have went on an expedition to Akavir. He was not in Morrowind when this happened.

Plus, this was 40 something years after the events of Morrowind. All of those slaves and most of the Non-elven NPC's you've known and loved were probably dead by then.

Just some weird date issue here:

It was said the Umbriel arrives in Tamriel (circa) 4E 40.
Sul was void ranging for about 48 years.
In Sul's explanation to Treb, the Ministry of Truth crashed 43 years ago.

Now, I am confused...

I'll have to check the novel when I'm home, but Sul says the Ministry crashed over 40 years ago and that he escaped from Umbriel 38 years ago, not 48 if I remember right. I think Umbriel arrives later than 4E40 -- maybe 4E44 or something.

I think when you attempt to update the timeline, you should take the latest time you can find, and use that as the "current" time. So if the MoT crashed 43 years ago, then 4E 43 is the latest date. It was only said that Umbriel arrived "Four decades after the Oblivion Crisis," so that could just be a rough estimate.

Edit: I also remember Sul mentioning something happening "45 years ago," but I can't remember what.

While I agree with the Umbriel arriving is not 4E 40, still these Sul's statements made me confused...

"I don't know much about this flying city of yours?not specifically. I believe its master is a man named Vuhon. He vanished into Oblivion forty-three years ago, and now I think he's come back."

"I was in the ministry," he answered, "I was also thrown into Oblivion. For thirty-eight years."

Perhaps the passage of time in daedric realms are different... I believe so.

Edit: It's 38 not 48. Ah my bad. I wrote that wrong and then confused myself. Silly me.

I don't think there's a discrepancy. Sul mentions in the novel that he was imprisoned and tortured by Vuhon when both men were in Oblivion, for several years until he escaped. Sul then mentions he served Azura on a number of missions within Oblivion during those 38 years after he escaped. By the time of the novel, he left Oblivion and, guided by visions sent by Azura, sought out Attrebus.

Yah. It's my error in typing the year made me confused myself. Doh...

When I copy-paste the whole statements it's clear. I bought the ebook version you know. It's easier for me to read... and copy-paste.

EDIT: Now I really want to see the map of Morrowind after this cataclysm.

Heh- I bet some keen modders have already started on that map, if not finished it!

As for the timeline: Ob comes 6 years after Morrowind and if Umbra arrives 40 years after that then that's 46 for the whole shebang.

When is the destruction of Vvardenfell dated to?

I do wish that such Lore events were given actual dates for their timelines - that's what appendices are for - but if Sul has been in Ob and it's possible time is different or hard to keep track of there then we will just have to put up with it until ...