It could be me that is wrong. The names in Morrowind are unfamiliar and I can’t pronounce them so I am unable to remember what I read in the 6 -8 months that pass since I got off the boat. Do I need to do more research and study? Is it me or Morrowind, that is messed up? Now keep in mind, I am not of high intellect & in my 50's. and there is an overwhelming amount of documents & written material scattered about Morrowind in no sequential order.

I’m at the point in the main quest where I just finished the meeting with Vivec. And I’ve been reading through books, letters and notes trying to piece the story together. I want to know the true facts of who is who and what is what. I find Morrowinds story confusing, contradicting & puzzling.
For one thing, I read 2 different versions of the battle at Red Mountain.
Version #1, as described in the book: Kagrenac's Tools. where Nerevar asked Dagoth to guard the tools while he went to consult with his counselors, Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil. Then Dagoth fought with Nerevar and the counselors, and was mortally wounded and driven off, and the tools were recovered.
Then there is Version #2, (which I believe true) as described in the book: Nerevar at Red Mountain. in which Almalexia, Sotha Sil, & Vivec poisoned Nevear while they were summon Azura for her guidance. They made ritual as if to summon Azura as Nerevar wanted but Almalexia used poisoned candles and Sotha Sil used poisoned robes and Vivec used poisoned invocations. Nerevar was murdered.
After reading Version #2, Dagoth Ur doesn’t seem like a devil to me. I blame the false Gods.

Anyone replying to this post should read both of these books first.

And what is the “curse upon the Nerevarine“? Vivec removed this.

I also can’t understand how a Dunmer would WANT to be a Noble of house Hlaalu. Since house Hlaalu is loyal to the Emperor & Imperial law. And the Dunmer are ashlanders who hate outlanders.

I think the UESPWiki Lore-section explains it pretty clearly. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Battle_of_Red_Mountain.

Books have conflicting stories because there isn't really any 100% reliable data from that time and a lot of the sources we have contradict each other. Some of the gaps in the story are open to interpretation, which causes different versions of the historical retelling of certain events - the Battle of Red Mountain being one of the most prominant in Morrowind.

I personally believe that Nerevar was killed by Almalexia, Vivec and Sotha Sil in the end (I think at some point in the game there is some evidence to support this, but I can't remember who says it and what exactly it is), but in any case Dagoth Ur refused to give up the Tools of Kagrenac, which is why they're still in his possession in the beginning of the MQ of Morrowind.

So I wonder when did TES folklore begin and how much of it was carried over or copyed from other sources.

Believe it or not, ambiguity is one of the things many of us admire most about Morrowind. I miss that when I play other games (including Oblivion).

Personally, I don't like simplistic art. When I read a book or see a film I like to be challenged a bit. A book or movie that divides characters and conflict into "good" and "evil" bores me. Of course, not everyone feels that way. And it could be that Morrowind, with its abundance of unexplained motivations and conflicting stories, just doesn't appeal to you. And that's fine.

I also have to say something else: age has nothing to do with it. I know this for a fact because I myself will be 58 next month.

::EDIT:: TES folklore began with http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Arena, the first game in the series. Some of it is original to the series (civilized Orcs, Dwarves who are no longer around), some of it is borrowed from Tolkien (humanoid Elves) and movies (sword-and-bow-wielding skeletons), from Dungeons and Dragons (Mage and Thieves Guilds), from Robert E. Howard (a lone adventurer) and many other sources.

I definitely agree with this...

And to comment more on the OP's post, Dagoth Ur isn't necessarily evil... but he's not good either, I think. He was corrupted by Kagrenac's tools just like Almalexia, Vivec and Sotha Sil, but he used the powers he got from the Heart of Lorkhan to do evil and not good, like Almsivi did (they did try to be beneficial to the citizens in Morrowind, Dagoth Ur didn't even bother). So in the end, he isn't "good" in that sense, even though everything that happened might not be his fault at all. According to some sources he wasn't responsible for Nerevar's death, but neither did he give up the tools.

Morrowind's history is so great, because it isn't black and white. There's no evil and good, because most of the people involved in this are in the shady gray area in between.

Well I like movies & stories to be complete. It needs to make sense & add up or someone is pulling my leg. If a movie has confusing, contradicting & conflicting scene's, then it becomes a poor lie, not worth wasting my time listening to a chronic lier.

So in that sentence: If Almalexia, Vivec and Sotha Sil are good, then why did they murder Nerevar?

Well, you're going to miss out and hundreds of great pieces of literature and film.

The three promised to not use the tools to gain power, but then they got greedy for power so they killed Nerevar and used the tools.

Have you visited http://www.imperial-library.info/? It is the largest collection of TES Lore available.

"Trust not the words of a poet, as he is born to seduce. Yet for poetry to seize the heart, it must ring with the chimes of truth." - Sotha Sil


"Vehk the mortal did murder the Hortator. Vehk the God did not."

I don't think the real reason is ever fully specified. Perhaps they just wanted the powers of the Heart, end of story? *shrugs*


Tried and succeeded.


Dagoth Ur thought he was doing the world a favour. He was fully convinced that what he was doing was the right thing to do. Was he right? No, but that doesn't make him evil. Both the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur tried to be beneficial to the citizens of Morrowind, it's just that the Tribunal had a less skewed idea of what "good" entailed.

They're not good, but they're not bad either. The point is that they betrayed Nerevar and killed him to enable themselves to grab the tools and use the Heart of Lorkhan for power. They got greedy. (At least according to some sources.) But the difference between Almsivi and Dagoth Ur is that the Tribunal used the powers they got from the Heart of Lorkhan mostly to benefit Morrowind's peoples, where Dagoth Ur "succumbed to the evil nature" (depending on how you want to look at it) of the Heart itself and did not. That's why Dagoth Ur remained strong and the Tribunal's powers diminished over time.

These accounts are historical, and even our world's history is sometimes inaccurate and from contradicting sources. The way history books are written depends on who writes them, and accounts of the same events will vary depending on the source. This is just as true in Tamriel's lore and history, and in some instances there is no way to know for sure what the truth really is - no one is lying, per se, but accounts can vary and contradict each other. Just like accounts of wars (for example) in our world. The winners of the war will play down how cruel they were to their opponents during it to make themselves look better, the losers will overexaggerate how cruel the winners were to them to make the winners look bad, the civilians will tell their story from their point of view, soldiers will tell different versions of the battle than the war generals... History is rarely written (if ever) from a completely unbiased point of view. That's what causes the contradiction, not that you're being lied to.


At first, yes. But in the end, their powers weakened and only Vivec was left to hold up the Ghostgate. Sotha Sil and Almalexia left. And Almalexia did that whole thing with Mournhold and fighting against the Nerevarine later on (the Tribunal expansion pack quests, I mean), which wasn't exactly beneficial to the citizens of Mournhold, what with the creatures from the Clockwork City being loosed on them and all.

Also to note, assassination is part of the dunmer culture, exemplified by the Melphala worshiping group, the Morag Tong. You can thank Melphala for that.

I wouldn't say a part, more, recognized as a necessary evil given the alternatives.

... and in being so is part of their culture.

Vivec is also the anticipation of Melphala. six and murder go hand in hand with that guy.

They're not still in his possession in Morrowind. They're again in his possession. His Ash Vampires ambushed Almalexia and Sotha Sil to get them.

Leocody, 52 here. That's what's great about the Elder Scrolls mythos is that it's deliberately ambiguous; and I second the recommendation that you use the "Imperial Library" website.

Although the myths such as the Creation myths are contradictory in TES, there's a core of truth -- because some part of mortals was a witness to the events.

It's also possible that when the Tribunal achieved apotheosis from the Heart of Lorkhan, they changed their timeline; Vivec became a god who had existed before his mortal birth. This is why the Sermons have a good chance of being literal truth instead of just made-up stories. (Although I guess MK left a lot of it symbolic still, especially when he writes about the City-Face and so on.)

Nalion and other forum members have pointed out that the Sermons aren't aimed at the faithful so much as they're aimed at you, the Nerevarine. They're explaining the true nature of reality and the Nerevarine's destiny, etc. I think Vivec knew that one day Nerevar would return and clean house.

Lastly, Helseth was (or maybe still is) more than a puppet of the Empire; he was a strong ruler trying to maintain Morrowind's independence at the same time that he was forced to work with the Imperials. We don't know yet if he survived the destruction of Vvardenfell. (Are you aware of the events mentioned in the novel "The Infernal City"?)

Ashlanders are only one small group of Dunmer; most Dunmer on Vvardenfell are *not* ashlanders.
However, it's true that most Dunmer do hate outlanders.

The key word is *most*. Not all. There are many of them that are pragmatic, entrepeneuring individuals who feel that the supporting (or at least, profiting from) the empire is good business.

As others said.. while you point out you don't like movies to be contradicting and to have a definite conclusion, Morrowind does as well. You see, while the accounts are conflicting the game definitely does prove one thing. Nerevar was murdered by the Three. While the events have contradictions the game's story does not. There's a definite conclusion when you finish the main quest, it's just the past events that are contradicted. At any rate the way I see it both accounts are right and wrong. Nerevar did drive Dagoth Ur to the depths of red mountain and did indeed battle with him. Dagoth Ur in your dreams and through Dagoth Geres (If I recall correctly) and in the following note says that he forgives you for "Striking him down." So my view? Nerevar battled with Dagoth Ur and killed him which caused him to reform at the heart underneath Red Mountain or at least drive him there. In doing so he was mortally wounded. Instead of helping him the Three killed Nerevar so that they could use the tools to gain power. This makes both accounts correct.

Take note on one key fact: at no point during Vivec's account, http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-battle-red-mountain-and-rise-and-fall-tribunal, does it mention that Nerevar ever died. He just... stops getting talked about, until they use the tools and Azura promises Nerevar "would return to punish" them.

One account offers a clear account of what happened to Nerevar. The other does not offer any account of his death or any other means.

The two accounts aren't as contradicting as they seem. The three killed Nerevar, that much is clear.

I really admire Morrowind for it's ambiguity. The main quest is clear-cut and not very imaginative- evil god constructs massive tool designed to conquer universe, player must stop him. The backstory and all of the other aspects, though, really make it stand apart and memorable.

In Morrowind, the sides aren't clear cut evil. Dagoth Ur became the mad god he is because of the actions of the Three and the Tribunal. Azura isn't perfectly good, either, though she seems to be- she's using the player as a tool of revenge against the Tribunal (read The Infernal City to see how un-benevolent her actions really ended up being for the Dunmer).

Dagoth Ur honestly wants to free the Dunmer from the lies of the Tribunal and the occupation of the Empire. He just goes about it with extraordinarily evil means.

That's just it. Dagoth has good intentions but is very extreme about his methods of achieving them. In other words he creates a good lie. It almost makes you feel sorry for him and want to join him because he doesn't sound so bad.. until you remember that his plan also turns everyone into insane diseased mutants.

Remember that you're a guy(or girl?) on an island. Nothing more, so when you read something, anyone could have written it for any purpose. The books in the game are actual in-world books and not used to directly tell the story for you. If you want to find out what is what, you just need to look further into the main quest and read some books here and there. You should try to understand the world as a whole. You say that the story is a lie if it's contradicting itself, but it isn't contradicting itself. There is only one story and it isn't messed up. All the books and what all the characters tell you can be lies, you piece it together.
Also, about the good guys/bad guys. You are the hero of the story, and there are no clear cut good guys and bad guys. They are all just "guys", and they all just do what they do for the reasons that they have.

Exactly this. In the end you know who you are, you have a good idea on the past but even that isn't fully important in the story, you got clear cut goals and there's a clear cut conclusion.

Yes. It's [censored] up, and everyone knows why, but they don't agree why.

This is a quotable quote.

The Tribunal murdering Nerevar was a good action as he was Azura's patsy and the daedra do not act in the best interests of mortals. The PC is actually a minor villain of ESIII, being Azura's revenge that was only able to come at the dusk and dawn of eras.

That's one interpretation of the events of the game, yes. Many of the major moral questions are left entirely open ended. It's one of the things I love about Morrowind. It makes you sit down and think hard about what you've seen, heard and done long after the fact.