So, Morrowinds been destroyed huh?

Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:50 am

From what little I've read about the crashing of the Ministry moon into Vivec, it just sounds geologically implausible that it would destroy any bit of Vvardenfell, although I could see it taking out a couple of cantons of Vivec. It would need to have a pretty high velocity to do any real damage. The darn thing is like swiss-cheese, with the ordinators having burrowed all through it.

But a nice big phreatic explosion of Red Mountain could do the job. Like Krakatoa.

Yes, but the Ministry still hits the land with all of the force it was falling with before it was stopped. So it's like pausing a meteor in mid-flight a few feet from crashing into earth. Then you hit "play" and it smashes into the ground.
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Javier Borjas
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:22 am

So what you said was inaccurate then. A lot of land was lost hundreds of years ago, but present-day Black Marsh is just peachy.


No, I was correct. I said "much of what would become Black Marsh", meaning Black Marsh was not in existence as a province at the time. And I did clarify that it happened earlier. You're taking this out of proportion, methinks. lol Point is, this kind of stuff happens in fiction. It's shock value. Would you have really cared if Elsweyr or Valenwood was destroyed? Probably not, since you don't know much about them. But since MW takes up so much time for gamers, they would be attatched to it, thus making the shock more meaningful. Just wait till Nerevarine returns, though. Those invaders and bone-pickers are gonna get their butts handed to them.
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Ryan Lutz
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:00 am

No, I was correct. I said "much of what would become Black Marsh", meaning Black Marsh was not in existence as a province at the time. And I did clarify that it happened earlier. You're taking this out of proportion, methinks. lol


No you didn't, you said the following:

According to lore, most of what is now Black Marsh province was flooded and destroyed...


That isn't the same as "much of what would become." That is saying Black Marsh was flooded, but because you didn't provide a date, one would assume you meant recently.
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Emmie Cate
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:42 am

I think one thing has been left out of this conversation. The size of Vvardenfell in "real-Nirn" size is more than the ~6sq mi of the game. No volcano can wipe out Vvardenfell at it's true size. Also, any impact in Vivec strong enough to cause a volcano in Red Mountain when it is so far away would probably also wipe almost all life off of Nirn when the required debris blocked out the sun a sunk the whole planet into an ice age even the hardiest Nords would be unable to endure.

Everything in the Elder Scrolls games is a proportional condensation of the actual size and population density of the world. Yes, Vvardenfell is bigger, but I'm sure Red Mountain and the Ministry of Truth are bigger too. That aside, there's still the added complications of the Argonians.
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Alyce Argabright
 
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Post » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:49 pm

Everything in the Elder Scrolls games is a proportional condensation of the actual size and population density of the world. Yes, Vvardenfell is bigger, but I'm sure Red Mountain and the Ministry of Truth are bigger too. That aside, there's still the added complications of the Argonians.


Not to mention that this is a FANTASY series. Who's to say that volcanoes on Nirn do not erupt more violently? Who's to say that the Ministry isn't made of really dense (and therefore more likely to build momentum) stone.

Point is, everything does not have to be nitpicked. If the event drives the story, who cares how realistic it is? You want realistic, try finding a game about an everyday working schmuck trying to pay the bills. lol
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Mark
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:37 am

Not to mention that this is a FANTASY series. Who's to say that volcanoes on Nirn do not erupt more violently? Who's to say that the Ministry isn't made of really dense (and therefore more likely to build momentum) stone.

Point is, everything does not have to be nitpicked. If the event drives the story, who cares how realistic it is? You want realistic, try finding a game about an everyday working schmuck trying to pay the bills. lol

Well, that one does erupt more violently anyways. It's the largest mountain of any kind on Tamriel, and it's usual eruptions have made every foyada in the game, not to mention the expansive ash wasteland. Usually it's eruptions are gentle and liquid. This time it exploded.

And you are right, though, that in good fantasy the only laws of physics that can be assumed to be true are the ones stated to be so.
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Aliish Sheldonn
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:27 am

i think the "frozen in time" thing is total bull. absolutely implausible. never in the entire series (maybe daggerfall or arena, im not sure) has anything been able to change time, aside from the actual Elder Scrolls themselves in Oblivion. and those only changed events, not freeze or rewind time. there is nothing ever implied before or after this that time can be frozen, rewound, or sped up. i doubt Vivec, a near-dead god in morowind, would have ben able to freeze it in time. i can easily see hitting it with an extremely powerful levitation spell, dependent on his continuing residing in the palace.
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Kahli St Dennis
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:37 am

i think the "frozen in time" thing is total bull. absolutely implausible. never in the entire series (maybe daggerfall or arena, im not sure) has anything been able to change time, aside from the actual Elder Scrolls themselves in Oblivion. and those only changed events, not freeze or rewind time. there is nothing ever implied before or after this that time can be frozen, rewound, or sped up. i doubt Vivec, a near-dead god in morowind, would have ben able to freeze it in time. i can easily see hitting it with an extremely powerful levitation spell, dependent on his continuing residing in the palace.

LOL.
Anyone who has ever played around with Akatosh (and that's quite the long list) has changed or messed with time.
If a bunch of high-strung followers of a talking monkey could shatter the linearity and structure of time for 1,008 years in Cyrodiil, I'm sure that Vehk (who is a god, empowered by the faith of his people, false or no) could manage just fine.
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Alexx Peace
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:26 pm

First, the amount of force needed to trigger a volcanic eruption is "variable": if the volcano is close to erupting anyway, a relatively small shock could set the events in motion; if it's not near that stage, then a HUGE amount of force would be required. The fall of Baar Dau onto Vivic would be a "small" shock in geological terms, but still sufficient to destroy the city and send shock waves and flooding over a wide area, ESPECIALLY if its original momentum was merely being "contained". It might or might not trigger an inactive volcano nearby, but it might trigger other more sensitive earthquake and volcano sites elsewhere.

A true "dinosaur killer" meteorite would cause the planet to "ring" from the impact, and trigger a series of earthquakes and volcanos worldwide. That additional smoke and ash, in addition to the original plume of debris (and searing waves of steam scouring the nearby land, in the case of a "water strike"), would cause a "global winter" effect, causing the failure of the food chain worldwide, and the mass extinction of both many plant and animal species around the globe. In that case, either TES V or FO4 could take place in Cyrodiil. We won't need to visit Skyrim, because that would turn to nothing but the "snow and ice" that everyone says it's not, at least until the world recovered. Few of the Nords would survive for long, either, aside from those in the most southern areas or abroad at the time.

Baar Dau was largely hollowed out for use by the Ordinators, but if much of its mass was used for building materials, one might wonder if those also resumed their original velocity and caused smaller catastrophies wherever they were used, all of it still adding to the overall force of impact. Vivec's interruption of the moon's fall was originally done at the height of his power, relatively fresh after taking power from the "Heart", and it was probably more and more of a drain to maintain it as that power faded. Whatever happened after he was seized and taken to Oblivion, at some point that power was no longer sufficient to contain the pent up energy of the fall.

Much of this was "foreshadowed" in the lore, so the fall of the moon wasn't so much a "surprise" as an "I didn't think it would cause that much damage when it happened" event. Parts of Morrowind were buried under nearly 200 FEET of ash after the eruption of Red Mountain at the fall of the Dwemer, according to the one in-game book on Dwemer ruins, so this isn't the first time the province has been "destroyed". It will eventually recover, but certainly not in a few decades, and it's not likely to regain any sort of "significance" for several centuries at the least. At least it won't be another generic "happy forest", like Cyrodiil was depicted, if the developers ever decide to place another game there 100-200 years further down the timeline.
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Lizzie
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:31 am

All lava flows sometime. So these 75% of the Mainland + Vvardenfell should have turned desert. And I believe that Argonian should have taken advantage of that and also of the conquest of rest of Morrowind, to annex Morrowind to the province of them, Black Marsh, and make Morrowind a colony.

It's just a shame if Yagruma Bagarn died. Hope he has survived or escaped.
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daniel royle
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:14 pm

First, the amount of force needed to trigger a volcanic eruption is "variable": if the volcano is close to erupting anyway, a relatively small shock could set the events in motion; if it's not near that stage, then a HUGE amount of force would be required. The fall of Baar Dau onto Vivic would be a "small" shock in geological terms, but still sufficient to destroy the city and send shock waves and flooding over a wide area, ESPECIALLY if its original momentum was merely being "contained". It might or might not trigger an inactive volcano nearby, but it might trigger other more sensitive earthquake and volcano sites elsewhere.

A true "dinosaur killer" meteorite would cause the planet to "ring" from the impact, and trigger a series of earthquakes and volcanos worldwide. That additional smoke and ash, in addition to the original plume of debris (and searing waves of steam scouring the nearby land, in the case of a "water strike"), would cause a "global winter" effect, causing the failure of the food chain worldwide, and the mass extinction of both many plant and animal species around the globe. In that case, either TES V or FO4 could take place in Cyrodiil. We won't need to visit Skyrim, because that would turn to nothing but the "snow and ice" that everyone says it's not, at least until the world recovered. Few of the Nords would survive for long, either, aside from those in the most southern areas or abroad at the time.

Baar Dau was largely hollowed out for use by the Ordinators, but if much of its mass was used for building materials, one might wonder if those also resumed their original velocity and caused smaller catastrophies wherever they were used, all of it still adding to the overall force of impact. Vivec's interruption of the moon's fall was originally done at the height of his power, relatively fresh after taking power from the "Heart", and it was probably more and more of a drain to maintain it as that power faded. Whatever happened after he was seized and taken to Oblivion, at some point that power was no longer sufficient to contain the pent up energy of the fall.

Much of this was "foreshadowed" in the lore, so the fall of the moon wasn't so much a "surprise" as an "I didn't think it would cause that much damage when it happened" event. Parts of Morrowind were buried under nearly 200 FEET of ash after the eruption of Red Mountain at the fall of the Dwemer, according to the one in-game book on Dwemer ruins, so this isn't the first time the province has been "destroyed". It will eventually recover, but certainly not in a few decades, and it's not likely to regain any sort of "significance" for several centuries at the least. At least it won't be another generic "happy forest", like Cyrodiil was depicted, if the developers ever decide to place another game there 100-200 years further down the timeline.

Lots of stuff here so let me just say one thing that rung out: Maybe it did trigger smaller faults and volcanoes, which is why it's Red Year is known everywhere? Not everything was destroyed, but a lot of things were shaken up, lots of earthquakes, etc.

Also, Shor the unoficcial space god had just been freed, plus Oblivion invasion, things were probably already unstable geologically before the moon hit.
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Breautiful
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:11 am

:Cartman voice: Noooooo! Morrowind is gone! Noooooooo!!!

I hope Glarthir is ok.
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Harry Hearing
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:41 am

Because it is BATW.

that may be so, but i was making a point. points dont have to be interesting. now would you please kindly get off my back?
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Bee Baby
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:04 pm

that may be so, but i was making a point. points dont have to be interesting. now would you please kindly get off my back?


That was a day ago, I'm pretty sure he's off your back by now.
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Lucy
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:19 am

That was a day ago, I'm pretty sure he's off your back by now.

he better be :ninja:

anyways, back on topic, im actually glad morrowinds destroyed.

soooo....

...yeah
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Quick Draw
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:23 am

Not to mention that this is a FANTASY series. Who's to say that volcanoes on Nirn do not erupt more violently? Who's to say that the Ministry isn't made of really dense (and therefore more likely to build momentum) stone.

And again, let's not forget that the fragments of rock mined out of the Ministry of Truth preserved their momentum as well. While I'm sure most of the left-over rocks were just cast aside, a stray home or statue or two built out of the stone could do some significant damage as well, especially if these were inconveniently placed in equal frequency around the province.

There's also the matter of the poor blokes who mined/ordinated the Ministry of Truth and probably have very fine particles of the moon in their lungs. This is pushing it perhaps, but their lungs are going to get punctured into a fine mesh, they will. :evil:
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Red Bevinz
 
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Post » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:16 pm

Seen any elves? HAHAHAHA.

This whole thing gives a new meaning to that...
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Richard Dixon
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:36 am

Well, as someone who ranks Morrowind as my favorite game on the planet, I can say it's not the land that made the game great, it was the game design and immersion, you can make any region of Tamriel or Nirn as good, or better, so Morrowind being destroyed isn't bad news. And honestly, 90% of it was already craggy wasteland, so not much harm done anyway. The Dunmer are almost a dead race now, going the way of the Snow Elves, so that could prove interesting in future installments.
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jess hughes
 
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Post » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:43 pm

Bethesda let this guy...

Destroy Morrowind?

:cold:
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R.I.p MOmmy
 
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Post » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:34 pm

Bethesda let this guy...

Destroy Morrowind?

:cold:

Of course not; that would be silly. Instead, Bethesda did something much better.


They let YOU destroy Morrowind in a delayed fashion through your actions as the Nerevarine.
:P
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Kelsey Hall
 
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Post » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:49 pm

And our actions as Champion of Cyrodiil, becoming Sheogorath and therefore responsible for dropping the rock in the first place.
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I’m my own
 
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Post » Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:47 pm

How do I feel about it? It completely svcks! Morrowind was the most fascinating and cultural place ever to appear in an Elder Scrolls game, and now it's gone. All that history, all the weird armors and housing, all the ancient characters... gone. If only Azura hadn't tricked the Nerevarine into removing the godhood of Vivec that moon would still be hanging in the sky, thousands of people would still be alive, and the cultural history of the Dark Elves would remain in-tact. I do like the Argonian invasion, but an odd argonian-dunmer hybrid culture would have been a lot cooler instead of Black Marsh 2.0.

If they had to destroy some place they should have destroyed Cyrodiil. Mods aren't in the lore and by the gods was that place dull.
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Oscar Vazquez
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:05 am

How do I feel about it? It completely svcks! Morrowind was the most fascinating and cultural place ever to appear in an Elder Scrolls game, and now it's gone. All that history, all the weird armors and housing, all the ancient characters... gone. If only Azura hadn't tricked the Nerevarine into removing the godhood of Vivec that moon would still be hanging in the sky, thousands of people would still be alive, and the cultural history of the Dark Elves would remain in-tact. I do like the Argonian invasion, but an odd argonian-dunmer hybrid culture would have been a lot cooler instead of Black Marsh 2.0.

If they had to destroy some place they should have destroyed Cyrodiil. Mods aren't in the lore and by the gods was that place dull.

Had The Nerevarine not freed the heart of Lorkhan, Dagoth Ur would have just turned all the dunmer into corpus beasts.
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Ashley Tamen
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:04 am

Had The Nerevarine not freed the heart of Lorkhan, Dagoth Ur would have just turned all the dunmer into corpus beasts.


well in that case, a large rock destroying most of morrowind and wiping them all out doesnt seem so bad now does it?
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Alina loves Alexandra
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:21 am

Of course not; that would be silly. Instead, Bethesda did something much better.


They let YOU destroy Morrowind in a delayed fashion through your actions as the Nerevarine.
:P

Not to mention it's been implied recently (can't find the posts but I remember it) that the devs have the lore for quite a bit of the future of the series already planned out. Not to mention all the hints we were already given that this would happen. So really, they let Keyes detail the characters responsible and the gritty details of the events. The destruction of Morrowind and the use of the Ingenium to make a flying Oblivion pocket was already thought up, it seems.
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T. tacks Rims
 
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