The Tsaesci could be a vampiric race, with them being immortal and 'eaten by snakes'.

That's what MK has said also, that they're "immortal vampire snakemen". Since he wrote so much of Morrowind's lore, I have to go along with that.

In TES IV, there is a Dunmer priest who said he was with the Temple, up until a collapse.

Thats right, I got confused. Obviously they don't fight in winter... I get confused easily...



Well yes, but when I was answering I assumed the question asker meant was Akaviri a continent of vampires or some such

The Dissidents lead the reconciliation of the Temple. They'd hardly lead the split of their own home and hearth. The Temple has been around for a long time, I can't believe that it would fall apart so quickly. The Catholic Church was split twice, and it's still the largest Christian church in the world; religious organizations just aren't subject to the type of thermodynamics that Oblivion would like us to believe.

In "Oblivion", Avrus Adas calls it "the Collapse", presumably when Almalexia and Sotha Sil go missing (only you as the Nerevarine, and Vivec, know what really happened with Almalexia's madness and Sotha Sil's murder) or ascend into sainthood -- whichever the official party line would be. Probably a hard core of believers would try to keep the Temple going, while others would have their faith shaken and wander away as Avrus Adas did.

The Temple was omnipresent in Morrowind society. Losing 10% of its power and followers would constitute a collapse.

Yea - it has to be viewed in MW terms too. 'True believers' would not see the Tribunal as gone forever if the Tribunal wrote them a postcard from sunny Drreamsleeve. But Vivec (notorious liar though he is) suggested that the people should turn to the Saints and to viewing the Tribunal as Saints rather than Gods. Yeah, we know he lied [again] if we accept The Trial. Because if the Trial is truth he achieved CHIMp and is a true God - and always was - or he lied about Gods always having been.)

So I guess if that rumour is anywhere near accurate and not a sign that communications are breaking down in the Empire Helseth is busy trying to fill the void with Helseth and dispute within the Temple is aiding Helseth. That might hold Dres to an Alliance provided they saw massive benefit in it for themselves. Like Helseth made a secret agreement saying slaving would be illegal only temporarily.

Did anyone personally know the one who passed on the rumours and whether he is of good judgement or character? It's always possible that he knows little or nothing about Morrowind and had only just heard about the Disident Priests and was adding that to the disappearances of the Tribunal and coming up with something spectacularly innaccurate. Or perhaps he assumed that the Tribunal were not real Gods at all and their disappearance represented a breakdown in Secular Organisation itself, but that back in Morrowind things are not really happening that way.

How would a stranger see a transfer of worship from Gods to Saints - if that is what is happening - as a collapse?

Aaargh - I want more data ... hmmm I want another Morrowind expansion so I can see for myself

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Avrus_Adas

He seems pretty reliable, having been a Kragenmoor priest before emigrating to Cyrodiil. He doesn't have many lines of dialogue though.

The sudden knowledge that the Tribunal were false gods, thieves of godly power and possibly murderers of Nerevar should've brought total obliteration to the Temple and its members. Maybe Helseth & the Dissident Priests realized this, and never made it public knowledge, but instead made it be known that the Tribunal finally ceased to be man-gods and ascended for ever, or something.

I was wondering about that. It seems to me that the ending of slavery was probably more nominal than actual.
In parts of Eastern Europe when serfdom was ended in the 19th century the nobility recieved state compensation which the former serfs had to repay before they could exercise their new rights. I suspect something similar might have happened in MW.

Mongols!!!

This conclusion generally rules out simple denial. I'm not sure if the future beliefs of Morrowind Dunmer are focused on after Morrowind, but you have to consider that the Tribunal have been worshipped for over a thousand years. They are gods, they don't die. Or so the Temple-abiding Dunmer believed.

For instance, try walking up to a devoutly christian person and saying "Your beliefs are untrue, Jesus never existed." Will they believe it? Probably not. Now, suffice to say, when the Nerevarine Prophecies and their outcomes are effectively rubbed in the nose of Temple priests and citizens, you'll have a religious dilemma --possibly comedic, possibly horrendously violent-- that could destablilize what little and seperated order that is loosely knitted together in Morrowind.

And, concerning your statement about the Tribunal even 'ascending' to Aurbis or Aetherius, could be met with less-than-open arms. Given the aforementioned period of the Tribunal's (Blessed Be Their Holy Names) reign. As far as Templegoers are concerned, the Tribunal are 'The Gods,' all other et'Ada have the right to bow down to these divine pretenders. The Temple would never admit to their Gods' losing divinity, given the said statement about them being > the Aedra, Daedra, and all et'Ada.

The rumors of the Nerevarine's trip to Akavir could be a completely fabricated cover-up for something more sinister. It's possible that the Temple implemented a more diabolical solution to these radical changes in an attempt to quell the crisis (assuming they could lay their hands on his game-mechanically invulnerable self.)

Considering these rumors (given what's possible in-game,) began while Kvatch was still under siege and the real 'crisis' had yet to begin, it's possible that without a Hortator or Nerevarine that Morrowind could be obliterated by unfathomable instability and Daedric splodey-machines.


Edited for saying the word 'sinister' twice in one paragraph

I was of the impression that that was just MK just trying to add something to the lore through that picture he posted. I dont recall that ever being even mentioned anywhere in Oblivion as real lore.

It was a rumor, I believe, when you walk pass people during the crisis

I'm under the belief that if it's mentioned in game then that's what happened until I get told otherwise by the game.

Usually 99% of rumors in TES games end up being true one way or another anyway.
From my experience.

Some things are really just NOT open for debate regardless of what we think.


Like.. "Nerevarine went missing in Akavir"

Okay that's obviously what happened regardless of what fans think (until officially told otherwise).
However we can still debate Why?, How?, When? etc.

This is slightly off topic, but I woulda sworn at the end of Morrowind I ran into the ghost of the emperor and there were rumors about his line being exterminated. How does the lore handle a seven year gap considering those events?

(I hope it's not another "Warp in the West".)

I like to think that Helseth ordered to retrieve the dead bodies of Sotha Sil & Almalexia from the Clockwork Tower, and possibly also the body of Vivec provided the Nerevarine kicked his divine butt, and paraded them around all across Morrowind similar to how Gaius Octavianus paraded around the bodies of Cleopatra & Marcus Antonius after the battle of Actium.

That would completely (and satisfyingly) crush the Temple.

The ghost you see in Morrowind is the ghost of Tiber Septim even though he is under the alias of "Wulf"
The Uriel septim mentioned in Morrowind is the same Uriel in Oblivion.
Some rumors in Morrowind suggest the sons of Uriel are doppelgangers left behind after Jagar Tharn and the Incidents of what I guess would have been in TES II: Daggerfall.

But in oblivion the doppelganger sons thing is probably not the case.

Guess I gotta replay Morrowind sometime. It's been years since I last played it and I hadn't realized how mixed up my memory of those events is. Thanks for the info!

It was not a ghost, more an avatar of Tiber Septim. For the same, you can also meet the avatars of Mara & Zenithar in the game.

Also, IIRC the rumours in Morrowind are about Uriel Septim VII's sons being doppelgangers.

No. Vivec dying is a bad thing, for everyone.

Only if they stop loving him afterwards.

Fixed

Jagar Tharn was dealt with in the aforementioned chapter.

re your first line: In-game - what if Maiq the Liar tells you that the Nerevarine's [censored] is made of green cheese? Do you then believe him? I like to use my own judgement and I find your second line more interesting (in parts )