Every so often a thread opens up on the forums, like it did a few days ago, where someone asks about the quality of a mod named Morrowland: From Hell to Heaven and then many people jump at the chance to openly mock it.
Well, MidgetAlien and I downloaded it, I playtested it as he is doing now and we agreed that while it has some glaringly bad qualities it has enormous potential. There are many, many good tings about this mod that after some of
the bad is cut and moved away it will really, really shine. I contacted Midgetalien about it after he said so in a thread and from that, I can now present to you a progress thread for its remake =-).


What we will be changing
-Dialogue. There are many, many spelling and grammatical errors that need to be addressed.
-Some books/notes that don't make sense/lack a "writer's touch". One example of this was a book I read where the author was writing that he was dieing and so he wrote his screams and moans onto the paper.
-Real world religions. Some may like the idea but I believe that overwhelmingly they just offend people and make a mod hands-off.
-Plot change*
-Region Naming-Instead of the regions being "Jungle", "Morrowland", "Swamp", they will be named like individual places, such as "Haska Coast Region".
-Landscapes-We hope to add much, much more detail and give the landscape a more realistic feel that isn't so copy and paste


*Plot Changes. I don't want to reveal too much so I'll try and some it up best I can. In the original game Satan is making humans open portals from Morrowland to Hell so that Satan can enter with all his hell powers. Certain elements
will remain. A "paradise" and an "anti-paradise" with citizens and rulers of both, an overall theme of Good vs. Evil. The real difference here though is that "Good" will not be a quality solely manifested inside characters we root for and
"Evil" will not solely manifest itself inside characters we root against. The plot will have many layers and we hope leaves the player feeling very conflicted and makes it difficult to fight against those you are asked to fight against and save
those you asked to save.

Videos-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P9BcY1yEn4

Screenshots-
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot61.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot66.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot68.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot71.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot73.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot69.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot70.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot77.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot78.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot74.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot67.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot55.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot52.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot54.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot53.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/zackgwin/Morrowland/MGEScreenshot33.jpg

If you're going to spend time redoing the mod might I suggest moving it to prevent conflict with Tamriel Rebuilt?

I can't say that we definitly will or won't move it, Im uncertain.

Beautiful screenshots Zackg!

A million beautiful landscape pics aren't going to convince me, (i've seen how bad this mod can get) but the fact that the project is in capable hands is great news indeed.

Are you going to be improving the Interiors too?
Many of them were poorly made, or felt unfinished anyways.

No plans have been laid out to do so but thats only because of man power. If there is anybody out there who would like to make the interiors their focus then they can feel free to contact Midgetalien or myself. =-).

Just how "fixed" are you planning on making this? The mod is almost 3k exterior cells alone and as it stands it seems to me as though you risk not making it all the way to "actually good" from "so bad it is good," and instead falling into that valley of "mediocre in an unfunny way." I mean it certainly looks good in the screenshots, but that is a minute fraction of what there is to do.

Also, does anyone apart from you two actually even want this fixed?

I doubt a mod with 3k cells with updated landscapes and a detailed immersive (hopefully) plot would land on mediocre in an unfunny way. Its not an average where you take what the mod used to be and what we will make it and call it in the center. I've worked exclusively on large projects with few people and despite the lack of released material I've been around it enough to know without a doubt in my head that not only is it possible, it's nowhere near the difficulty that most people will make it out to be.

As for whether or not anybody wants it fixed, I propose this-you don't want it fixed, then you don't play the fixed version. I refer to this as "choice" and while I'd like to take credit for its concept I cannot. It'd be one thing if people played this constantly just to laugh at it but I'd bet more people look at your little review and laugh at it, so it's not like we are actually negatively affecting anybody's game, just what they may see on the forums. Being negative because people think you are funny is cute and all but no thank you.

I know that the program Cell to NIF could simply convert the landmasses to interior cells. This could be a good idea since a number of exterior landmasses are now in development. :turtle:



I would certainly like to see this revision accomplished. Especially if the average quality is anything like the screenshots. Any well done landmass projects are very good ideas since they effectively expand on Morrowinds advantage in size and can remedy most cases of redundancy if planned correctly.

Though I would heed Thrignar Fraxix's perspective since he has experience with TR

IF we were to move it, which Ive PMed MA about, we'd move the entire thing far east I believe but keep it an exterior.

Yay! :turtle:

Note: Your landscaping is very distinct (in a good way!) :rock:

I asked just how fixed you were making it because if you only fix the exteriors, quests, dialog, and literature, leaving the interiors alone, then that makes the chances better that you won't clear that awkward valley. I know how good your exterior work is, but 3k cells is almost as large as the entire province of morrowind and as far as detailing is concerned, for about 80-90% of that, you are working with simple raised land.

I don't want it fixed and will not be playing this. I'm just asking to see if you two have thought this through entirely.

People reacted in a strong negative way when I reposted my paraphrased review despite my efforts to the contrary. I did not like this at the time, and when Gamebro saw the thread he took it badly and almost deleted his mod forever. I did not like this and urged him not to do so. I don't hate the mod, I love it. I don't hate the creator, I respect him. (even more so after hearing the circumstances under which he made this mod) I certainly hope that you don't feel as though I am spearheading some mean spirited group effort to make fun of the creator. I also wonder if you understand the concept of light hearted ribbing. Is it really so bad to enjoy something for its flaws? I mean, this strikes me as similar to if some high budget studio decided to remake "The Room" after seeing all of the bad reviews. I encourage people to enjoy the mod for what it is.

Sorry for the semi OT wall of text, but basically what I am trying to say is, don't think that I'm a jerk for saying the things I say about morrowland, and please don't think it is some great evil to enjoy this mod the way that myself and many others do.

This all said, modding is the choice of the modder. If you really want to do this, then that is your right. I just hope you aren't doing it because of a perceived need to stop the community from being mean to someone.

It's a very nice response Thrignar. I agree with the idea, that it should be left intact.

I see what your saying, and I dont think your a bad person

I just see lots of un tapped potential in the mod, so I wanted to see if it could be tapped into. I mean for all I know the "revamped" version might be a complete flop. But I'll have fun working on it - thats what moddings about right?



Hmmmm to be fair, the rules do state constructive critsim not "be mean to someone" - I BELIEVE that its is every memeber's duty on this forum to ensure that NO ONE is mean to anyone or their work. SO yes I could say that I am doing it because of a preceived need to stop the community from being mean to someone.

If you think thats a wrong way of doing it then your a lesser person that I belive you are, considering I just said I dont see you as a bad person

So I refer to what I just said- If I have fun, whats bad about that? I really do see lots of potential here in this mod, and it is my hope to try and bring the mod up to the standards that we as modders and players today, like to have.

This is not about the author (which I myself don't even respect him, since all I have seen is his crazy burst outs toward some people and am not aware of the "circumstances" in which he made his mod which should not be related to the way he made the mod, unless he has no arms or has a bad eye sight) nor about people laughing at the mod.

I joined the project, and am sure that Midge and zackg did as well for the same reason, because the mod has pretty decent amount of potential.

It is pretty simple, you had your time to say what do you think about the mod, you can write as many reviews as you want, but this is a REMADE thread which is pretty self explanatory so if you don't like the idea you shouldn't have opened this in the 1st place, or at least shouldn't have posted that you don't like the idea. You can ask about the mod, or what do Zackg and Midgetalien plan to do with the mod, but "I don't want this" is not really constructive.

Thank you.

@1st part: Indeed it is.

@2nd part: I guess the difference between us is that I don't perceive it as being mean. Some people post comments that are mean, but I would hope those would be few and far between. (and discouraged by others) Overall, when morrowland threads go as I like them to, comments stay in the realm of laughing at flaws, rather than sneering at them.

I don't see it as a wrong way, I just don't feel that it would help or change the communities opinion towards the mod or the creator. Rather than having an improved version reflect better on Gamebro, I see this as most likely being associated with those who are remaking it.

I feel a special attachment to this mod considering it is the only mod (apart from TR and a very basic house mod) that I have ever played.



He was running on 2-3 hours of sleep, in constant pain from wisdom teeth, hated his job, and was breathing gas fumes from a leaking furnace. I think that behavioral and modding oddities can and should be forgiven. Beyond that, he made something of this size with all this going on. Quality aside, the scope alone is impressive.

As for the rest of your post, I am not trying to stop your mod, and in fact I hope that all parties involved in this mod (and any mod ever for that matter) enjoy themselves while making it. I keep saying what I think about the mod because for some reason people seem to get the wrong impression as to my thoughts on the mod. My posts in this thread were to make sure this mod was getting made for the right reasons. (even though it isn't as though I could stop you if it wasn't) To sum up, I am trying to encourage introspection and ensure that people get the right impression from what I say.

You are all very brave. Watch out for the malignant rogue vertices's! (grin)

Seriously, this is a mammoth task you have set yourselves. Would not your talents be better employed with, say, Tamriel Rebuilt?
Anyway, good luck with this ambitious project. I'll watch with interest.

PS. I agree with Thrignar Fraxix, his review was very valuable, constructive and a great read. I'm not one of those people that decries constructive criticism. It is from such criticism that we learn.

I am working on this mod because it is most likely the most defaced mod Morrowind has. I am not doing it to defend Gamebro and Berzerk, I don't know them. I am doing this because I looked at this mod and see one so far down but with some work can go so far up. That's inspiring to me and it makes me want to make this project and it makes me want to see this project succeed. I don't care if you guys want to mock the mod in your little threads, go for it and enjoy it. If you notice I didn't lecture anybody in those threads about how they treated him, only here, in our projects thread. I'd warn against you confusing your "respect" for Gamebro with something else as because telling him not to take down his mod when he's dissatisfied is the equivalent of telling your fat friends not to lose weight because then, God forbid, you wouldn't be able to laugh at them.

If something svcks then say it svcks. Laugh at it. Do whatever. But jumping at every opportunity, every new thread, waving your simple review around feels to me like you are using Morrowlands follies to subconsciously advertise yourself so everybody can admit how funny Thrignar's review was.

Put the brakes on, kid. How the hell do you know what's going on in TF's head? Don't put words in his mouth, and don't make accusations like that. It just makes it hard(er) to tell whether you're a jerk or not. You need to deal with the skepticism until you accomplish the improbable. But lashing out at members and making stuff up is not acceptable behavior. You knew full well when you took this project up that people weren't going to necessarily take you seriously.

1) You arent TF.
2) Well, there's really nothing else to say to you.

1) I'm on the IRC with him right now and I've worked with him for years. He's not a malicious person.

2) That's because I'm right. You have a lot to prove. And your attitude does very little to inspire confidence in your ability to make Morrowland good.

Awesome. Very sweet of you.




For any future posts let it be known I wont dignify any of these with a response as only to prevent my thread from being locked. So go on and have the last word.

going to do this backwards because you've actually managed to press my buttons. (as it appears I have pressed yours)



My first review was an effort to make people appreciate the mod for its flaws. It served its purpose well, but is gone. The new review inexplicably leads people to hate on the mod, which has lead me to respond to every morrowland thread trying to steer it in a more positive direction. I do not care if people think I am funny, and I actually discourage reading my current review. I simply try to circumvent any ill will towards the mod as things tend to default in that direction (More so when people see my second review). I blame myself for part of the ill will because of the second review. In attempting to circumvent that, it seems more has popped up elsewhere.



That is your right and I wish you well.



Do you not like when reviewers say that something is fundamentally flawed, yet still recommend it? It is as though you can't separate criticism from negativity. It is possible to point out (and enjoy) something's flaws without baring it any ill will. If you can admit that, is there some other problem with doing so? If not then there is a fundamental difference between us that I can not see being reconciled.



I am insulted, seriously. I would like an apology.

For all of your preaching about how defaced this mod is, you seem to have the worst opinion of it out of anyone here. You treat this mod as if it is something to be ashamed of. I can't imagine how many hours went into this, how can I not respect someone with the dedication to make something this size (gamebro and berserk are in the credits, but gamebro said he made the vast majority) Made a mod that is almost the same size as ALL OF TR. We have been working on that mod for almost a decade now, and 2 people made a mod that is almost the same size in less than half the time. Who cares about the flaws, that is still a tremendous accomplishment. How can you imply I don't respect someone with the dedication to do that. This is not at all similar to me encouraging someone not to lose weight so I can laugh at them. To imply such is incredibly insulting. This is the product of probably hundreds of hours of work or more, and removing it would serve absolutely no purpose. It would mean that all efforts on the mod would be for naught. Would you rather he would have removed it? Wasted all that time? Do you believe the original mod should not exist? I mean if it didn't then we wouldn't be saying all those "mean" things about it. You wouldn't have to fix it up to stop that.

You insult me, and you insult the mod. I have never once insulted the mod or the creator, and I actively discourage it when it happens. I apologize for getting worked up, but it isn't often when people insult me in a way that I actually find offensive.

I've said my piece many times, but I will say it one last time. Remake this mod if you want to, if you see the potential in it for a "good" mod. It is your right to do as you please and enjoy yourself in doing so. Do not remake this mod the save it from being defaced. There are better things to do, I'm sure, than remake a mod that you don't even like.

edit: fixed a typo for clarity

This revamped version looks awesome. If it fixes the TR incompatibility I will definitely be trying it out. :goodjob:

I don't think you guys should bother. Why not put your time into some of the other worthy projects (even your own).

:shrug:

That's just my opinion, it's your time, so do with it what you will.