Okay, so I was just reading about the afterlife in the world of The Elder Scrolls.

So, if I understand correctly, when a mortal dies, he/she goes to the Dreamsleeve and after a while is reincarnated in the mortal world. Is that right?

So what exactly is the difference between a mortal dieing and a Daedroth dieing? It sounds like the same thing to me; "mortals" go to the Dreamsleeve, then come back. Daedra go to the Voids of Oblivion, then come back. Is the only difference that the Daedra remember their past lives and "mortals" do not?

Now this is getting me to another line of thinking: as of Oblivion, we know that mortals can survive, for years on end even, in Daedric realms. bliviongate: Uriel Septim made it through Lord Dagon's plane alive, there is a functioning human civilization in Lord Sheogorath's plane, and Mankar Cameron recieved his own little mini-plane from Lord Dagon to live in.

What's more, Mr. Cameron was in control of the enviroment of his Paradise. When he died, his Paradise litterally came crashing down and was destroyed. This would suggest to me that Cameron had the same position on his Paradise as a Daedric Prince would have in its own plane; the Paradise was an extension of Cameron himself.

So basically....Mankar Cameron became prince of his own Daedric realm? I assume it was a Daedric realm, anyway, since he was a Daedra worshipper, the Paradise was in Oblivion, and it was full of Daedra.

So from all this, it seems to me that "mortals" and Daedra are the same thing! Everything that used to make them seem like seperate types of beings has been proven false.

So...are mortals in fact a kind of Lesser Daedra? :blink:

I would not go as far as to say they are the same thing, but...similar. The princes occupy an idea, conception, etc, and were not part of the construction of Mundus. The minions themselves seem to have their own thoughts and lives, very similar to mortals, well depending on their intelligence. They also seem very smug about it too, and will ALWAYS deny any similarly. Battlespire did shed quite a different light on the beings of daedra, along with what we also learned in SI too, and the interview with Sheo's butler person.

But, here's a few things you should know. The daedric planes/realms/etc princes occupy ARE the prince. The entire world in that realm is the prince. The image you see is their avatar. For instance, if Azura REALLY wanted to, she could turn herself into....say...this http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1252359_99119915036_DaemonsGDNurgleMain_873x627.jpg . But she wouldn't, because that's not her, her personality, or the concept she occupies. I know Melphala, and Beothia often change their gender.

What Mankar, Battlespire, what Uriel occupied were pocket realms that were created. If I remember correctly, M-K bound himself to his book, which was Paradise or something, and when you killed him, you broke his link and, yeah, it came crashing down.

EDIT: I really need to work on my revision timing. So, reread this, I added more from my original explanation.

Mortals and immortals. One and One, eleven. The way of the fifth, the limits of this world. The Enantiomorph. Bleeble Blabble.

Daedra ARE still different thought. They wouldn't/couldn't have given themselves to Nirn. I'm not too sure the Dreamsleeve is the same place as the Void for Daedra. They FUNCTION similarly, but the Daedra can "remember" their time there, though.

The Digital Mnemolia is involved, but I forgot exactly how this works, but I think it's just that we've basically forgotten our godhood as a result of the creation of Variable Fate, that is, Nirn. When you "remember" it, you "regain" your godhood; see Vehk, Numidium, Talos, and Mankar.

Recall the idea of Lunar Currency too. Unfortunately, I don't know too much about Mankar yet, for I have yet to complete Oblivion (I know, I'm a loser).

That's where I'm leaning also. Though it's commonly accepted that mortals are said to be the creations of the gods, they also share baser natures with the daedra as well.

Towers and stones, yo. Towers and stones.

While not exactly the same thing, they're similar in my opinion.

Well, you can't make a stable tower without stones. But I wounder how good a tower would be if it was from legos, it'd be bumpy, but awesome.

Basically, yes, though there are a few mechanical differences.

The Paradise wasn't an extension of Camoran, he'd just bound himself to it so as to have control. His position was more like a sigil stone. And though it's been some time since I've looked into it properly, I don't think Paradise was in Oblivion, it was a pocket dimension more or less 'in' the Xarxes.

No, there still different. Not only is that "forgetting past lives" a significant difference itself, but they occupy different positions in the universe - daedra are just part of the system.

Still you'll hear arguments for Nirn being a Daedric realm, even from MK, with the example of the realm of Attribution's Share...

What is Attribution's Share?

I forgot. And am too lazy to search right now.

Boethiah's plane.

Thanks, brotha.

I take it TES IV made some sort of inconsistent assertion about Attribution's Share?

This is the original quote by MK:

"Also in all fairness, there's enough evidence to support the Mankar's claims that I was happy that it went in. The idea really flips the idea of Tamriel on its head.

Imagine the Oblivion realm of Attribution's Share, for example, with eight powerful daedra (one of which is Boethiah) wielding divine power over their realm, and all their subjects bound to the whims of that power; now imagine it under an ur-theology and creation myth(s) as complicated as anything on Tamriel, where the myriad mortals of Nirn were, to the denizens of the Eight Divines of Attribution's Share, in fact, "daedra".

This realm would be surrounded by the Void, just like Tamriel, in turn surrounded by Aetherius, and who's to say that the big hole known as the Sun doesn't hit their shores, as well?

Lorkhan the Padomaic could be exactly what the Mankar says he is: the dead Lord of a lost daedric realm whose "gods" are powerful Liars."

Another thing to point out is that while mortal spirits prefer whatever lies beyond, and hence will be driven insane if kept from it, bound to the mortal world. And those ghosts at the Hill of Suicides didn't seem much happier (and they had been insane before they were dead). Daedra, on the other hand, find the waters of oblivion, the place where they go when they "die", to be much more frightful.

Well, the planets in Nirn's solar system are said to be the divines too, and we know that they can manifest themselves in physical form as well ()

Yeah, they really don't like to die. For them, they still have their sentient mind, memories, and general awareness. What makes it really svcky is that they have no feeling, no senses, just black void, and they are not spared the process that mortals go through. They have to witness the insanity of being completely deprived of all senses, until their lord wants to bring them back from the waters of Oblivion, or a waypoint to guide the dead daedra back into existence. This is why daedra bind themselves to their lord, so they can be reincarnated or guided back into existence by their lord, and not suffer the pain of being completely deprived of all senses and left to wallow in complete and utter darkness. The seducers and the saints explain this to you in SI, and there's a book that also describes what death is like for a daedra.

Just FYI, you don't have to use spoiler tags in this part of the forum...

This whole section is a giant spoiler

Ok, sorry