Seriously, one thing that's bugged me for almost two years is that the player instantly has the only city they will ever need at the get-go. For those who aren't as interested in adventure and especially role-play, they really lose out because they don't need to explore and experience other cities because Whiterun has everything. An Alchemist, a a General Trader, an Inn, several small stalls, the Companions, two forges and three Armourers!

I'd have much preferred Morthal to be the starting city as it has absolutely nothing going for it. It's a place you want to get out of, not hang around.

I don't mean for Skyrim to become the typical fantasy game with a semi-free playstyle and story, like LotR: War in the North, which had three or four 'friendly home' locations along the way. These places were where your character wouldn't fight, but could talk to a few NPC's and get side-quests and generally get some down-time. First, there is Bree, the home stop. Then, a little later, you get the Dunedain camp, and Bree is obsolete. You see where this is going.

Instead, all I'd like is the self-given necessity to go out and explore the other cities to find what you're looking for, like the Thieves of Riften and the Mages of Winterhold, or something simpler like Whiterun's smiths and Companions for your warriors.

All I'm saying is that having everything handed to you within the first twenty minutes of the game (for me) diminishes the exploration... not so much value, but necessity, which for me does take the value out of it.

Why Morthal, and not one of the other villages?

Because Marthal is the capital of the hold. I didn't mean the first starting settlement, but the first actual capital.

then after you make a character just ignore whiterun and march to Morthal...

Oblivion was worse in this regard, but its kinda needed for early leveled characters.

Most cities have those.

I agree

I think I sympathise with the idea that it'd be nice to have to work harder to get to a bigger city with all the nice facilities. But, as the game stands, I don't think it really discourages exploration. Because the quests you get in cities almost invariably take you out into the wilderness to clear out dungeons. So when you go to Whiterun, while you do have access to a lot of nice stuff, you also have access to a lot of quests that take you out into the game world and encourage exploration.

The game pushes you really hard to Whiterun.

It literally tells you to go to Whiterun and lights the way...

only if you plan on doing the MQ or Companions...

I've got a level 18 character that has never once set foot within Whiterun

I feel obligated to because rp wise its hard to think of a rational reason someone would just ignore the dragon issue. Unless your character's an uber [censored].

true but the beauty of this game is you can turn around and go the opposite way, never setting foot inside the walls of Whiterun

I know the MQ requires you to go there but that makes sense as it's right in the heart of Skyrim and has a history of dealing with dragons. It doesn't make sense if we had to report the return of dragons to the Jarl of an insignificant hold.

This. From so many perspectives it leads you straight to Whiterun. Role play, Companions, Main Quest, geographical location...

I too have made characters that have not visited Whiterun, but that was deliberate to do something different. It should never have to be deliberate.

Yeah, it's immersion breaking when you go to Whiterun for the first time at level 50 and "last time I saw it was headed this way"... six months ago.

I have one character who said after Helgen..

"I am but a simple poacher.. I am not skilled enough to take down a Dragon... the Leaders of Both Miliartys were present, I am sure they are taking the issue very seriously... a skilled trained Army will be much better at tracking it down then me.."

and has never set foot in Whiterun to this day.. She hunts in Falkreath or the Rift, then travels to Solitude to sell the hides she has collected...


RP wise both Tullius and Ulfric know of the Dragons Presence. I woul;d think they would be setting up some precautions, so my character might as well continue her daily life...

No one is saying that it's impossible to avoid going to Whiterun immediately. The point is that this is overwhelmingly the path taken by new players. It's pretty clear that Bethesda designed the first part of the game with the expectation and the intention that most players would go to Whiterun. And the OP's idea is that, given that the majority of players/characters take a certain path, maybe it'd be nice if the path doesn't take you to a city packed to the brim with shops and amenities.

But does not force you. It is a choice.

It isn't about the destination it's about the journey. The main quest encourages you to go to Whiterun because its the main city in the game. This isn't forcing you to go there and it isn't discouraging exploration nor is it handing everything to you right away. You still have to work hard during the early levels of gameplay. The fact that the city has a smitty and some shops...so what...that's what a city is supposed to have.

I'm on my first playthrough and I followed Ralof to Riverwood and spoke to his sister. But I decided not to go to Whiterun and instead I headed back to Helgen to see if the dragon was still there and also to see who survived the dragon attack. On my way I followed another path and ended up finding Falkreath. So I guess Falkreath was the first city I found (Riverwood doesn't count, right?). After spending a bit of time there I decided to finally go to Whiterun. Of course, curiosity got the best of me and I ended up heading north PAST Whiterun. Eventually I found Dawnstar.

Long story short, Whiterun was the third city I encountered. I don't believe in just doing what the game tells you--I'd rather just do my own thing. And I bet I'm not the only one who feels that way...

Incidentally, I do like Morthal. If this game was linear I wouldn't have minded if Morthal was 1 of the first cities to come across. So I agree with the original poster on the Morthal thing--although I fail to understand the thought process with Whiterun being the "first" city and having everything. I didn't even see that Jorvaskr place (where the Companions are) until about my third visit to Whiterun!

I like this idea. Whiterun does kind of spoil you right from the start and it's on par with solitude for one of the most beautiful cities. It's also nice feeling welcome and respected in the jarl's court. A lot of the other jarls seem unfriendly to me.
Starting in morthal would make for an easier transition into the world and imagine stepping into whiterun after having only known morthal for so long. I'd be like "wow! Now this is a proper city!" Instead of getting overwhelmed and burnt out on a big place like whiterun and being a little disappointed by the cities that come after.

But, Morthal is a terrible place!

If I could have been Bethesda's adviser, I would suggest something a bit different.

IMHO, the first town/area that the players start the game, should have all the needed vendors, teachers, challenges, loots, and facilities needed for the players with the most classic game-play styles, like fighters, sneakers and mages...

But all those aspects should be related to the general difficulty level of the area, so in the starting area, the difficulty level, therefore, all those aspects should be suitable for newbie players, and the more the players diverge to the higher level and more dangerous places, the more challenge and reward they should find.

So in the initial newbie area, they should find all the vendors that any play style needs, but always, in all those vendors there should be only newbie items for trade, except for the rare chances of some higher level items, and the vendors should have little money to spend.

The challenge level of the initial area, should also be small, so you would encounter only lower level monsters, except for the rare chance of a bit higher levels ones of-course, and the reward/loot should be scaled to the challenge level.

The starting quests in the beginning should also initially be simple to solve, except for the ones that would eventually lead the players to the more challenging areas of the game.

This way the newbie players should be comfortable for a while, and all their needs would be answered, regarding the needed facilities and excitement of challenges, and the rewards, but as they grow in power and confidence, they would feel the need to explore the game for more rewarding challenges, and would start to diverge to other places/holds.

In those places, the cities should have higher level vendors and facilities, needed for higher level players, with higher level items for trade, and higher pocket money, higher level locks to break into, and higher level monsters and rewards, but newbie players would not be advised to travel there before they are ready for the challenge level.

This is the ideal topology for the challenge/reward level of the open world role playing games in which the players would gradually grow in power, and could explore more areas for adventure, so Riverwood should have all the facilities needed for any main style of game-play, but vendors should have low level items for sale and little money to spend.

The surrounding dungeons should also have low level foes with little loot, except for the bosses and some some chance of rare champions in the middle.

The woods should have low level animals and monsters, with their low level loot, with a small chance of higher level monsters to spawns that could force the player run toward Riverwood to let the village guards kill the rare higher level monsters, and town/village guards should be quite a bit higher level than general difficulty level of the area.

Whiterun and its immediate surrounding area should be a bit higher level than Riverwood, but not much and vendors should have more money and a bit higher level items, with the rare chance of even higher level items, but the vendors should not be high level in exotic specialized items, and the teachers should not be master of exotic specialized skills.

But the more the players diverge to the more exotic and secluded places around the game, the higher level the towns' facilities should be and the more specialized the vendors should become, with more money to spend on their specialized trade, and so on...

The immediate surrounding areas of the cities should always be relatively safe, but in higher level holds, some nearby tricky dungeons could exist, and the chance of some rare ambush of high level monsters/foes, and so on...

So in Winterhold for instance we would have the highest level traditional spell merchants, but if the players want more exotic spells, they should have to find them in other more exotic places, like a hidden necromancer den deep within an undead dungeon for instance that the players could find and try to befriend to be able to learn exotic high level necromancy spells, and so on...

Riften should be the center of high level tricks for the sneaky characters, but if they want to learn the highest level tricks, they should run errand to the grand masters of the tricks, only found on more exotic hide outs, much like the master level errands of the trainers in the College of Winterhold, but those master level errands should be given to the players in more exotic and hard to find places than a hold capital, and the hold capitals can provide expert level teachers, errands and rewards.

Markarth, could be the center of actions for the fighter style players with centralized higher level teachers, errands, and tricks to be learned, but as always the best tricks should be learned after the master level errands, provided for the player in more exotic places than Markarth, itself.

All the hold capitals should provide low to medium level vendors/facilities for all the different types of play style, but each town/city can be more specialized in some trades/tricks and provide higher level service in those areas of expertise, with more specialized vendors who have more money to spend.

This way the initial area, Riverwood, would be a perfect place for newbie characters, and the central hold, Whiterun, would be a perfect for low/mid level ones, and after that in order to specialize, and find more exotic teachers/vendors, the players would have to choose the place they would want to head toward.

OK this was my idea of a great open world role playing game.

Also I think almost all the higher level perks should require the players to seek the needed skill master for the trick, to become their apprentice, run their errands, and maybe even pay, to learn the trick/perk.

Eh, if I first came into Skyrim starting from Morthal, I'd think, "God, Skyrim is just ugly province". But I get what you're saying. Kind of reminds me of Seyda Neen. Nothing really goes on there, and there isn't much of a reason to return.

I like Morthal. Really cool how it's built on a lake, and I always liked quiet towns. I wouldn't want Morthal to blow up. I like it.

But I see the OP's point. While I know I'm was not being forced to go to Whiterun, I did feel that it was the "right way" to play the game on my first playthrough. That, and I would've been terribly lost if I didn't go to Whiterun.