Oblivion NPCs had little to say also for the most part. This not only allows them to perhaps populate the cities a bit more, but also gives a bit more variety to the world (especially without having to click on rumours which is the only smegging option).

Sometimes I get the feeling that people complaints just for fun...seriously.

How many "depth dialogued NPC's" were in Oblivion anyway? And even in Morrowind, which was text-based, how many NPC's had more dialogue than the random latest rumors / little advices? I see little to no difference in Skyrim by now.

I disagree, I think SR will have more depth than both, esp in the skill/perks system. Much deeper than past games.

Oh please stop vaunting Morrowind up. Even half the [censored] people in Morrowind had to say was the same from NPC to NPC unless they were part of a different quest or faction, in wich case they said the same thing as everyone else did in that faction.

Since when did the NPC's in Oblivion besides the important ones have anything to say either? This seems to be no change at all.

The only Elder Scrolls game that gave unique dialogue to non quest-related NPCs is Oblivion, and that dialogue was typically very brief. Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind only copy and pasted all non important NPCs' dialogue over to other non-important ones. :shrug:

I would like to see the inverse of the approach used for the mass effect player character applied to NPC dialogue in this type of game.

What I mean is, the NPC succinctly voices the summary or sentiment with appropriate emotional tone and character, and the text gives the detailed dialogue.

Then we get the theatrical benefit of voice, without needing thousands of hours of recording time to support in-depth dialogue.

I often read the subtitles fast and cut off the voice midsentence anyway tbh, i want to get on with the game!

I think NPC's will still have some basic dialogue like the other TES games. I mean, don't most of the NPC's in the TES games repeat some things anyway?

Also, Morrowind had text, so the writers could add much more dialogue, while it takes more resources to do it with voice acting like in Oblivion. Besides, the NPC's had lots of mundane topics and tell you their life story practically, lol! XD

(Dragon Age Origins had this, too. For example, even if I am supposedly a mage that has grown up in the mage's tower, I can still ask information about the tower and its inhabitants and magic categories---stuff I'm supposed to know about!---as if I was born yesterday, lol!)

I think maybe the NPC's will have the "rumors" topics or something similar. =) For me, it's not a big deal.

I'm one of those who prefer voice-acting. It feels weird to have an NPC say something and then get mute and shows me a bunch of text. I LOVED Morrowind (and still do!), but that part always throws me off. (I cannot get into the NPC's as much and then I sometimes just see them as walking textbooks that I can kill for loot, lol!)

It's a question of balance, I think. There must be enough dialogue to feel like they exist, but not too much to take up too much resources and cost, ya know?
I don't mind minor NPC's having limited dialogue. Maybe I'm not aware of that because I've played lots of games that have minor NPC's say maybe 2-3 lines and that's it, like in Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect games.

I don't think EVERY minor NPC should have tons of lines anyway. I mean, even Baldur's Gate II, which is an awesome game in itself (but I haven't played far enough--too hard, lol!), does not have EVERY single NPC have many lines. Some NPC's have only 2 lines or so. There are still plenty of quest NPC's and shopkeepers and other important NPC's to interact with though. ^_^

yeah thats pretty dumb. bethesda should fix this.

What else is new? The vast majority of NPCs in every single Elder Scrolls title ever have only had rumours to say, and maybe generic lines about their profession or "a little advice".

To me it was, actually. The IC may not have been as populated by very many people, but at least each person there was unique. There was something to each one of them, and weren't just obstacles that spout a one-line rumor when activated. One of the best parts of Oblivion, for me, was that each person was an individual. Generics were mostly relegated to being enemy combatants only, whom there was no chance of interacting with otherwise, and even that bugged me a bit.. though I understood why since they respawn all the time (still would have prefered randomized names from a huge database, like Daggerfall had).


I'd rather be told than to be completely abscent. Taking the mucisian as an example, sure, he doesn't have anything important in the long run (which you don't know, BTW, until you play long enough), and you never saw him perform, but he still existed and I still got that he was remorseful over losing probably the biggest gig of his life. That's infinitely better than him not being there at all, and being replaced by a Rumor-Only NPC.

That's kinda what's happening, though. Instead of fewer NPCs that each have a unique line or two that gives just a little insight into them (like the dog-lady of Chorrol, or the anti-Khajiit Argonian joker in Leyawiin, or the antagonizing married Argonian couple also in Leyawiin, or the remorseful composer in the IC, etc), we'll have more NPCs that don't say anything other than general rumors.

But there not absent, they will still say there unimportant lines, you just won't have to zoom in and click on rumors, far more immersion for me. I can click on them and just keep on walking, nice.

I think I know why I don't like this. In Oblivion, every NPC felt the same, yuo entered dialog with everyone. This sounds like: "Ok, this guy isn't essential to the quest. He is just there to make the world look lively" Which is VERY lazy on the developer's part. I'm not asking for more voice acting, just keep everyone the same.

Also, if they do it this way, how to we persuade random people on the street? I liked having a whole city hate me, or be friends with everyone in the game.

I hope you're right. When I first got Oblivion, I wanted to use this newfound freedom I had never had before to talk to everyone, and to my joy, every named person literally seemed to have something unique to say... and all this was in the first game I had ever played that was fully voiced. I specifically remember going to Calindil and, after he told me to see, feel, touch smell, and talk to everyone (stating that only I could experience the city for myself), I did what he told me to do. I talked to everyone. I spent the day walking around the Imperial City and talking to people. I talked to a composer who was going to compose a symphony for the Emperor, before he died. I met a certain Orc who had an obsession with big weapons. I learned of a feud going on between two families. I learned that the father of a citizen of the city had a sailor for a father. I met an ex-Mages Guild member who likes to sleep late and read trashy books (he also told me of the locations of Daedric shrines). I met Hieronymous Lex, a man whose morals inspired me and made me respect the Imperial Watch. I met an Imperial Guard who had been serving in the Imperial Watch for 40 years. Once Again, my respect was earned. I met an Orc who loved eating horses. I met a pirate singing about Wayrest. I met a pickpocket who openly told me he was a pickpocket, but claimed I looked too dangerous to rob. I learned that Phintias' bookstore is the best in the Imperial City... and the only bookstore in the Imperial City. I met a Dark Elf who told me of Morrowind and the Tribunal. I met Owyn. Well, I met Owyn. I MET OWYN.

Literally every named NPC seemed to have something unique to say. Sure, they were all brief, but I didn't have to hunt them down like a needle in a haystack. Everyone with a name had one of these little, precious needles, and I loved that. I hope Skyrim matches that, but at this point, I doubt it. I'm definitely going to love the game. I can say that much now. However, I did find it to be very amusing in Oblivion. There was actually a point, for me, to walk around a city and talk to people. I don't want a complete dialogue set. I just want a unique sentence or two from everyone with a name. The reason I doubt I will get this, though, is because Fallout 3 did not have this.

-Sorry, Sarcasm uncalled for-

I hope your not bagging on one of the best, if not the head of the pack, of the genre for Bethesda's decisions(Fallout 1, don't care about 2 and 3 much). And did the towns people in previous TES's really have substantial dialogue? Seems other than having less control in dialogue than fallout Oblivion didn't. If we take FO3 and NV the towns people have generic one liners for the most part, true. Switch to Oblivion. Same case, only you could find out certain topics from them. Most likely the same case in Skyrim. I think what they ment was Bethesda didn't flesh out every single NPC. Which isn't unlike any RPG game they've done. I'm sure there's more of a degree of dialogue than the Fallouts though. ( Man typing from an ipod touch is harder than I thought.)

I bet if it were possible, people would blame Fallout 3 for global warming. Seriously. Only difference between Oblivion and Fallout was that I didn't have to zoom up to their faces to hear them tell me the exact same thing. As long as every single person isnt' telling me that they wish that another atomic winter would hit the desert, it'll be perfectly fine. Having every single person and they're grandma having a backstory does not spell immersion for me. Oh, you work every day at the graqe farms in hope that one day you can open up your own inn? That's great, but remind me why I should care? Do you...want some money or something? I can get you some...you don't? ... You mean I can't help ya get the store? ... Then why in blue blazes are you telling me?!

If every single person gave me their life story as I walked through a town, I'd kinda be freeked out. That doesn't sound very believable to me. Oh, and why don't you come up with a backstory for ever single cotton picken ncp in skyrim. If they actually give big towns a believable amount of people living in them, we're talking thousands of backstories. Are you seriously asking for 1000 interesting backstories? All which are voiced in a way so that Bob #1 doesn't sound like Bob #9 ... Really?

I don't even know the backstories of my roomates. I live with these people! I don't care about their pasts, I got to know them by talking with them about the hear and now. Why on earth would a random home owner tell me that his great great grandpa worked the graqe fields durring the Oblivion fiasco? He doesn't really have a reason to tell me. I'd rather much want to know what was going on around town, or how his family is doing. How are you and what's the word around town are all you need for non important ncps. Later on, if ya get to know one by talking to him a lot, open up another dialoge rought to ask if I can spend the night.

If you ask people for their past in detail in conversations, you must get some strange looks at parties. You're simply not going to ask that, it makes no sense.

I dunno. The way it's talked about, it'll be like you activate them, they'll say a greeting or rumor, and be on their way. There won't be any back'n'forth, nothing specific about them, or anything. They'll just be hollow shells instead of individuals with personality.

I would personally rather see a ton of generic towns people to make a town seem more populated and real.. Think of assassin creed or gta.. the generic masses kept things feeling real. They have little lines of dialogue, they yell, talk to each other things like that. But you don't need to interact with every single person you meet. In real life you don't go to a grocery store and talk to every single person in there and listen to their rumors. You go, buy food, talk to cashier.. leave. There's only one important person in the whole store when you go to buy groceries. That's the person you buy the groceries from. Lets then put that into the context of an RPG. You go to a general store in a small town... It's a small store with four people standing in it. A customer, a cashier, a manager and stock boy. You then walk around and ask each of them "valuable" information. You walk outside and see the four houses these people live in that make up the entire town. And then you wonder to yourself how this town of four people has lasted in the most amazingly hostile environment in the world.. where at every step a new monster jumps out and attacks you.
It's the one things RPG's haven't figured out how to do yet. Make a world feel populated and not try to make every single person a person you can communicate with on some level.

Pot meet kettle :rolleyes:

One line of dialogue? how much generic commoners with one line dialogue will be in-game?
I believe Radiant story will work more like http://www.lgnpc.org/ for Morrowind.
Thats will be strange if half of NPC will be just one line dialogue robots, rumors can close some of this gap between well done NPC character and generic unnamed crowd.

Seriously? I would imagine by "full set" Bethesda mean backstory, quests, etc. Most people will be able to give you basic information I would imagine (much like OB's guards). I'd rather have a select few deep characters (and being Elder Scrolls there'll still be a lot of them) that are worth talking to than have everyone as a bland, shallow character.

I'm really not bothered by this at all, and am quite happy for the extended dialogue to remain with important NPCs only. After the first playthrough I skip through the dialgue anyway because I can read it much faster than it's being spoken. If every person I met in the game had a massive speech tree it would become more of an annoyance than anything.

Game designers with "franchise" products like The Elder Scrolls series need to realize what made their games so popular and it appears as technology improved, The Elder Scrolls series steadily declined in its ability to fully utilize all the technology with the game. Back when they had very few voices and mostly text they could hire a few writers and allow them some freedom to create realistic characters within the general population. Of course if they did this with fully voiced characters this would cost a lot more. However by not doing the same things with a fully voiced game Bethesda is cutting corners and what suffers is that illusive immersion factor that fans of this series have come to love.

No doubt about it they cut corners with the general poplation and the games have suffered because of this, I complained about it with Oblivion and I am certain I will be complaining about it with Skyrim. In fact, to date, I have seen pretty much nothing that has me excited about Skyrim. The only reason I will buy it is if they release it with a toolset because then the community can attempt to fix all the stuff Bethesda leaves out....