Oblivion had plenty of NPCs who didn't offer any information other than the generic rumors, so I don't feel like we are losing out on too much. People don't really realize what the auto targeting is though, its not for long range (as of now) its to help control who you are attacking with melee. The chances of you hitting allies drops greatly by having a mild focus on specific enemies instead of your only target being the one only in front of you. Morrowind could include massive stories, more NPCs, and greater background stories, but the cost was silence from the NPC. I can't complain about the one-liners, at least they will give a populated feel. Good chance the people will still talk to each other, but they look at you and think, i don't want to talk to this weirdo.

Good luck selling a AAA game that has no or very few voice acting in new and next generation games. It's a requirement for high budget games.

Is there really much difference between reading the same text over and over vs. hearing the same line spoken over and over in the exact same voice? They seem pretty damned similar to me. Add in the fact that it's easier to add a variety of different texts than it is to add a variety of different spoken lines... I know which I'd prefer. At least in the Morrowind system you had a variety of same text (some of which could be helpful, interesting, or useful) instead of half the NPCs saying '*sigh* Times are tough.' or some equivalent thereof.

Edit: Of course, what I prefer doesn't mean game designers will do it. ^^ Just because it works better doesn't mean it'll sell better, I guess.

How many times do I need to say it? The typical named NPC in Oblivion had something unique to say. That was NOT the case with Morrowind's NPCs.

Yeh not to say I wouldnt like to see more themed topics, like Fighters Guild members having a variety of generic topics involving the Fighters Guild, but I cant stand silent games these days. Call me spoiled, but Id take Oblivion dialog over Morrowinds any day simply for the VOs.

Dont call me lazy though, I read a lot of books so not wanting to read has nothing to do with it

... and the typical -unnamed- NPC in Morrowind had a *list* of things to say, some of which could at least give hints about local events and / or locations. That's MY point. Also, important NPCs also had a private list of things to say as well, so you can't say they don't have unique things to say. >_<

And this makes me very, very, very sad.

In Morrowind, regardless of whether they are named or not, they all have dialogue copy and pasted from other NPCs, unless they are saying something related to quest. There was nothing unique to them and no reason to speak to any more NPCs after a few, really. There was nothing to make one NPC (named or unnamed) any different from another. Morrowind gives off some illusion of a lot of text, but it really doesn't have that much at all. Named NPCs do NOT have unique dialogue in Morrowind unless referring to a quest, and that is a fact.

Someone has never played a Zelda game. Shame.

Also


Just because we dont go up to them and ask does not mean they cant say similar things in general talk you can overhear. In essence your still gaining the same information your just not talking to every indavidual and asking for the information, instead you walk around town and can stop and listen and learn.

Morrowinds characters had unique things to say about themselves, you have to click background, Morrowinds problem was that instead of giving topics to certain people or guard they gave EVERY topic to EVERYone without having a stockpile of answers, but they had the same unique background things as Oblivion, just not as fleshed out

EDIT: Oblivions generic NPC dialogue was by far superior to Morrowinds, even though it wasn't text based

Funny... A lot of us were saying the exact same thing three years ago.

While I agree that Oblivion made a point of voicing almost all NPC's, and that that might be expected in future titles... I don't agree that it needs it. What we have here (fully voiced, and partially voiced) might be the RPG equivalents of Standard and Automatic transmission in automobiles. Some people like to drive stick.

I see nothing wrong with text based dialog if it furthers the story and depth to the world

I don't see this. Very few RPG did what you are saying back then, and few do today. (Personally I don't see the need for it, but I accept that many do, and that it was common in TES.)

:shrug: I don't see the value in the trade off. I would rather have 15 major NPCs like the Lieutenant and Set from Fallout than 150 "towns person" NPCs with slightly expanded banter.


IMO that happened with the sinking of Black Isle.

There are many tips and hints and locations in asking about rumor or local stuff in Oblivion, as well as quite a few quests started from overhearing NPC conversations. Is it more or less than Morrowind? I cant say, Ive never tried to count.

Sorry, I know Morrowind had tons of great dialogue.
Lots of named charcters, but still even then apart from members of certain factions revealing slightly more secretive info it was the same stuff getting repeated.
Oblivion we did not even have that.

Most rpg's the generic villager, townsman, guard, prosttute had exactly the same dialogue path as the next one.
It was just they had more content with it for the AI to randomly pick from.

I love lots of dialogue, and I want lots of npc's, and wish to hear everyone of them to have different things to say.
Yet I've yet to find a game that I could not predict a response before hand.

That and I'd rather have smaller on topic, topics that a NPC would actually say, rather than lots of things reapeted by everyone else.

What did you think of The Witcher?

Take a look back at Oblivion. How many people had genuinely interesting things to say? How many people repeated the same topics? How alive did those people feel?

Yeah, thought so. What's the point in being able to talk to someone who has nothing interesting to say? I say do it the Fallout way, it worked much better, allows for more NPC's with less repetition and saves time and money in development. I see no downsides to this.

One knight says the same thing about being a knight as another. One trader does the same. One mage does the same. They had dialogue lists and different topics were combined in different ways to make up the lists, but the topics themselves were all, literally, copied and pasted. It's true that Oblivion had very little dialogue per NPC, but each named NPC, in addition to their generic rumor response, in a city would have some unique greeting, background information, and/or knowledge about the town. It was very brief, much briefer than the dialogue in Morrowind, but unique. It is then true that each NPC in Morrowind had a background, but it was more of a generic background. Oblivion had far less dialogue, but typically a brief line or three. The priest in Leyawiin's chapel who comments on coming to Cyrodiil after the collapse of the temple at Kragenmoor and claims that he wished the Nine would provide comfort to the poor as the Tribunal did was unique... and he was a random person without a connection to quests. The bard, Alga, of Bruma that comments on living with her partner, Honmund, and not needing to get married because that was the old Nordic way was unique and had no relation to quests. The Argonian in Cheydinhal's bookstore, Mach-Na, who comments on the missionary Imperials and the crude Dark Elves who inhabit the town, claiming to side more with the Imperials, was unique and had no relation to quests. In Morrowind, well, nothing all that special comes to mind from random NPCs. Cutting the non-special stuff away from the average NPC in Skyrim to focus on more dialogue for more important characters doesn't really get rid of much. I highly doubt many of us read everything every NPC in Morrowind has to say simply because it's so repetitive.

It's been a while tbh so bare with me here.
I liked how certain seemingly random general named NPC's under certain circumstance and events changed their dialogues and revealed more options.
It flowed quite well, and was a nice puzzle the first few times.

The only time I remember anything like this off hat was in Curst in PS:T where a random citizen turned out to have a quest linked to them.

No. No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Oblivion had what you are requesting. Since you clearly haven't actually talked to NPCs in Oblivion, I highly recommend you do so because you are just wrong in your assertion and you are asking for something that is right there in the game you criticize for supposedly not having it. This is a fact. This is not my opinion, this is a fact. Do I need to sig this? Will someone who doubts this actually go and check? I swear to you on the very existence of Skyrim itself that named NPCs in Oblivion have unique (as in pertaining only to them) dialogue.

True, Morrowind focused on fleshing out the world, Oblivion focused on fleshing out the inhabitants and gameplay, hopefully in Skyrim we will see the best of both worlds

Aye. Of course, now the problem lies in this new Skyrim system. Will the system be just like Fallout 3's? This game seems poised to deliver a very deep and unique world, though.

Really, walk into the imperial city in Oblivion and talk to any given NPC. 80% of them have absolutely nothing to say, the only thing unique about them is the house they sleep in.

Other towns have very limited populations, so there may be one or two people that have one interesting thing to say at most. I'd rather just have interesting shopkeepers and bartenders, then everybody else is just a "go about your day" commoner. That way the streets can actually be populated, instead of having maybe 20 people in a city. You walk around in Arena, the cities are very big and there's lots of unremarkable commoners walking about. If that could be combined with a few genuine interesting NPCs, then it'd be perfect.

Honestly, if you see some random barfly walking home at night, do you really think he'd actually stop and talk to you? No. He'd probably slur something at you and continue to stumble home. If you want an interesting conversations, then talk to some of the "unique" characters that may hang around in shops or bars.

From a game design AND immersion standpoint, there should be about 100 people in each city, and you should be able to speak to 10% of them. Walk into a bar, the bartender and waitress should be unique individuals with interesting dialouge. Walk outside, all the city-goers should be going about their business, and should ultimately ignore you.

No. When was the last time you walked into the Imperial City or anyone city in Oblivion and talked to anyone? Please, do so... now. You're just wrong. I don't know how to prove it to you without you going to the Imperial City and seeing for yourself, but you're wrong, period.

FO did it right. Lots of depth in dialogue where it matters and well-populated areas of NPC's with less dialogue. It's like this irl as well. Most people we meet don't have a whole lot of "dialogue options". When we find one that does, it's more meaningful. The rest just populate the towns/cities so it feels alive.

Wow, talk about being aimlessly hostile, I was agreeing with you.

wait, am I? You are saying that there's hardly any unique people in oblivion, right?

Nevermind. If need be I could make a video that shows any given resident of any given city in oblivion has at least one unique thing to say, tops.

I'm saying the opposite.

Edit: pretty much, but it is unique