First. I have been playing noumorouse alphas and betas the last 15 yeras, both closed and open so I know what it is about and I read about what they want tested before I enter a game.

Many times betas like these are show the product and get more people to play/buy it, that is the reason of my topic title.

This beta doesn't encourage people to buy the game.

You very quickly get stucked with quests in your log that you can compleate and even more now than the first ESO beta I played.

Is it bugs? Is it on purpose?

The reason doesn't really matter because the game doesn't leave the player with a good overall impression of the game.

So I would advise, that you throw at least one more beta before launch where everything is actally working so people know what they are going to get for the money and a smart move would be to throw in Imperial to everyone in the last beta, which would encourga people to buy it as well.

Or, we could the feeling that your holding something back.

Totally agree with this. Why would they do their first huge open beta without even using their latest version? I personally spent most of my time playing this weekend sending bug reports, but then they've probably already fixed most of the things I reported. Seems a little weird, and not a very great impression. That said, it's still a really fun game.

The beta which was on the last weekend was old version of the game. We tested the version 0.171 and the PTS testers are testing version 0.18, where many of the bugs has already been fixed.

I know, but that doesn't do anything for the people playing in the public beta.

was a stress test only. it seems people are unaware of the pts. maybe eso should put it in the news section . The servers where much more stable than last beta stress test. I never crashed once this weekend.

people need to stop hoping for a free game for a month until release. its a beta.

The purpose of this last beta, and the two before that were to stress the server farm under a load. It was not to beta test the code. This build was also limited to an extent with regards to higher level content and end game content.

This weekends beta wasn't an open content beta. It was a limited above capacity server stress test, not a bug hunt.

Quite a successful beta as well. Loading times were almost instant, when compared to February's beta, next to no disconnects, or connection issues in general (Not including Cyrodiil, but even that wasn't too bad).

The next beta in a couple of weeks will more than likely have the most recent build implemented (which has over 1000 bug fixes), along with the server adjustments, so should be near perfect for release.

You mean it did not encourage you to buy the game. It very well might encourage other people to buy it. It certainly would encourage me to buy it (if i didn't have bought it already)

Beta tests are supposed to be testing the game in various means. The last Beta was a Beta to test the Servers and the network infrastructure.

This Beta and Betas in general should not be used as a demo.

It is indeed odd that the OP has 15 years of alpha and beta testing and does not know what a stress test is.

We tested basically 1 build over the last 3 weekends and the ONLY thing ZOS was trying to do was increase server performance which was indeed improved over since last and this current test.

We get to test the newer build next beta test which is the on they likely want as their "preview" build if they were to actually pick one.

I've also tested games for over 15 years and stress tests have even included NO actual game client. It merely used the existing network code to test authentication, server performance and zoning. They used a mock client and stock or early model characters for such an alpha test. Stress tests are not about previewing a release version game.

Stress test was succesful. Lots of people stressing about it.

This beta was purely to test the server fixes to handle load/stress. I know that wasn't clearly evident to me when I first logged in and I was humbly disappointing to find out that the latest beta ver wasn't in the game yet, but it what it is and I'm still heavily looking forward to launch.

I think I see what the OP is saying. Thousands and thousands of invites were sent out. These people may not know there is another version of the game out there. When they come in and play a beta that is a month away from release and bugged all over, it doesn't look good. Maybe just a little information would help.

There are two types of betas. Marketing ploys and, er, betas.

Marketing Ploys

These are usually early access to a known mostly-stable build. The idea here is to get [free] player engagement in the game some time before release and possibly have some pre-order conversions. The idea is not to gather player feedback and bugs (in most cases this feedback is outright ignored). Companies that engage in this type of behaviour are your "evil" ones - the very best example being EA.

This outright fails in the purest definition of a beta: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta . Betas as marketing ploys are where the majority of gamers get their impression as to what a beta should be - and it's a very incorrect delusion.

Betas

These are "feature complete" (no more features to add, simply bugs to fix). They are often bug-ridden and extremely unstable (much more-so than what we experienced this weekend, we are talking outright crashes every 10-15 minutes). They are released with the intention of the player-base (i.e. users) helping the developer identify the bugs; a larger surface area of QA if you will. Sadly "evil" publishers have ruined the ability for developers to release proper betas because they have set a precedent where the players expect the betas to be stable and completely functional. So "the good guys" are forced to release the following under the banner of beta:

Release Candidate

This is very similar to a beta, but is expected to be mostly stable. The intent is to find show-stopper bugs (crashes); if smaller bugs are found (players standing on horses) they are typically triaged to a release further down the line. They are very close to release and often there isn't time to fix (and test, which usually takes longer than development) the smaller bugs.

MMOs

MMOs are a strange beast in terms of games. The client and the server are two very different pieces of software (unlike, e.g. FPS games where the server is a copy or a component of the single player game). This means that the strategies used to test it are extremely different. Not only that, but very often the server software is written in such a way that [for the most part] things such as questing do not affect the networking/communication. Therefore, even if your quests are buggy you may believe that your networking is stable. Basically, apart from doing your players a favour, there may be no good reason to use the latest version of the server for a stress test because the networking layer is "known to be stable for the last X builds."

Finally, if you did make a recent fix to the server/game you may have introduced something called a "regression." This is when by fixing one bug (or adding a feature) you cause another, or more precisely, break a bug you already fixed or break something that used to work.

"Golden builds"

"Golden" is a term often used in software engineering. It refers to anything that you can trust. It may be a specific machine. For example, Microsoft has a machine that they use for base-line benchmarks for SQL Server - and they do call it their "Golden Box". It may be a build that you can "fall back on" in the event that you find yourself at release with too many regressions. For example, where I work we often have "Golden Builds" and have had to use them once or twice. It can also be the coffee machine that makes the coffee with the most caffeine content.

What I think Zenimax Did

The version we got to play was the latest server golden build. They may have introduced a bug into later versions of the server that meant that it wouldn't stay up long enough (it would outright crash) to effectively perform profiling on (profiling is a process whereby you measure what parts of a piece of software are performing badly). Therefore they would be forced to use an older version that they know remains running for a good long time. I suspect that the next (and final) beta will be the latest version of the server with all the improvements found from the profiling pass; basically a "release candidate" in its truest form. This is obviously conjecture, but it's a very educated guess.

This means that, due to profiling, every second you spent in the game you were providing valuable feedback.

This was a real beta, not some crappy marketing ploy - and you should respect Zenimax for attempting it in the current market.

it is to stress test the system. It is not a demo. Bugs are to be expected, if you were really that experienced with alpha and beta testing you would understand these things are in beta tests, even close to the end. I just prefer games that fix it before they release it, so I am hoping they make the smart move there. I am talking game changing bugs and exploits that many games have released with that can give people massive advantages, hurt the economy and the rest of the player base as well.

This is exactly what I mean.

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I do know what the beta was about but I looked at it from a bigger perspective than just my own needs.

It's nothing to do with my experience but to do with those thousands of people who haven't got that experience and new gamers are joining the internet every day.

Nither my experience nor anyone else's will change that fact.

so lemme ask you this, so your telling me that Zenimax PURPOSELY allowed 1 million+ players to play ona client in which grouping was SO badly broken that it actually made some people cancel their preorders?

The rumor is next beta we will get to see a more up to date version of the client.

this exactly is how I feel I have alpha and beta tested almost every mmorpg that has come out over the past 15 years and never EVER have I seen a stunt pulled like what was pulled this last beta weekend, I really have to wonder is Zenimax purposely trying to hurt themselves?

I don't think so. I think what people are saying, is there should have been more of an explanation. People should have been informed that they were playing an earlier version of the game, so it would have more bugs than the more current ver. I have seen a lot of people discussing this both here and in the game. There seems to be a lot of confusion. Note: I myself can't confirm the other version of the game.

why even use a client that was so damn broken in the first place THAT is the question we are asking I know for a fact that my wife and a couple of our friends cancelled their pre orders after this weekends play, and honestly after testing the grouping in this game I called GMG and asked if I could get my money back as well

1, it was not THAT broken. There was a bugged quest here and there. Other than that the game was beautiful, and very playable.

2, it certainly did not cause ME to cancel my preorder.

3, they used an old (and well-tested) build because they needed to test the servers under load. Using a new but largely untested build would have possibly introduced new issues that would interfere with the test.

One of the things that would had made a much better impression; if they had disabled the quest that you were not suppose to be able to finish or the quest they knew were bugged.

I had to 7 quests at lvl 9 that I wasn't able to finish, because they were bugged (intentionally or not)

They were not bugged for everyone. Even myself, i did the khenari roost temple without problems on one character, and got stuck on another.

During two betas, i only got stuck on a quest that couldn't be finished twice.

Over the weekend I was thinking no way is this ready to go in a month- so many broken/buggy things in just the area up to level 15. I don't remember how, but at some point I found out that it was just a stress test on an older build, and I was very relieved.

Perhaps I didn't read the invite properly, but it would have been good if it was clearly spelled out that this was mainly a server stress test and to expect a lot of bugs that have already been fixed in other builds. Its not such a big deal to me now that I know, but some people overreact- and to be honest if I hadn't found out that we were playing an old buggy build, it likely would have turned me off buying the game.