Most of TES fans really on Console? : V - Skyrim

» Tue May 03, 2011 12:42 am

I am all for this idea, I would like modders to be able to tabulate mods to console disc formates and sell them to the community at large with a portion of the sales going to bethesda and microsoft/sony but the esrb would want to monitor it and others would abuse it till it would be more hassle then it was worth.

I bet the creation of "fan-mods" (non-canon mods) would practically become in oligopoly if there was a cash incentive, depending on the size of the market.

» Tue May 03, 2011 5:54 am

Shouldn't have say that, I'm already seeing the end of this and it's not pretty.

» Tue May 03, 2011 11:36 am

But hardcoe PC gaming is pretty costly.

"hardcoe" PC gaming has never been cheaper. Add the cost of a console to the cost of a netbook or low-end PC and you'd go a long way already
You don't need to be a hardware enthousiast to keep up with PC gaming. Equating the two seems to be a common mistake these days.

You contributed this to an open discussion. You don't need someone with an audience of millions to spread an idea.

Edit: yeah, you're right. I suppose there's no reason to dwell on it any longer.

» Tue May 03, 2011 12:36 am

Shouldn't have say that, I'm already seeing the end of this and it's not pretty.

If you're referring to what you said before no you shouldn't have because it's not true. If you don't want people to get mad about lies don't say them.

» Mon May 02, 2011 9:22 pm

That's excatly the point of consoles.
*snap* Ignore what I said here. Overreaction is irritating.
Pay around 400$ for like 6 years is pretty worth it if you ask me.

http://www.etforecasts.com/products/ES_pcww1203.htm#1.1

By the year 2014, it is anticipated that this number will reach 1,095 PCs in use per 1,000 people.

Certainly gaming technological advancements continue to make use of better graphics cards, but already today, most "middle of the road" desktop PCs are able to run many recent games at high resolution with decent settings.

If you build your own desktop, you can spend a relatively small sum ($1000-1200) to create a beast that will be running the latest games at the highest resolution for years to come.

There is already a PC of some kind in almost every home, which people use for work and recreation. Granted, most of these PCs are [censored] for gaming, but hopefully within the next few years the standard level of graphics capabilities will reach a point where the average household PC can deliver decent frame rates for 1080p gaming with the latest games.

There is no law set in stone that says that a great game must always be at the extreme edge of what is possible with hardware. It is a fluid bar that rises and falls with the progress of hardware advancements. It could be simply better optimized software that delivers a more outstanding experience on hardware that is not "enthusiast" level.

» Tue May 03, 2011 1:24 am

MW2 had no dedicated servers, that's a huge factor for PC gamers when buying their games, PC gamers tend to not eat the BS the gaming industry puts out. Also Crysis 1 sold more than 3 million copies, that's amazing considering it was only on PC and a new IP. All this talk about piracy is just BS, make a good game and people will buy it. Starcraft 2 sold around 3/4 million units on it's first day, where are the pirates? Cataclysm sold almost the same, The Witcher 1 I can keep going. Developers can make all the excuses they want, let's just hope Skyrim won't suffer laziness.

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/956637--geist-canadian-backed-report-says-music-movie-and-software-piracy-is-a-market-failure-not-a-legal-one

crysis is a $22 000 000 budget game its a big exception in the market and you have to consider that retailers take part of the price of the game. then publshers do so. then developers get the money. 22 000 000 budget. 3 million copies (also most pirated game during a few years) keep in mind that the game reached the 3 million units sold in 2010 not the year it came out. now lets calculate stuff. 3 000 000 x $40(most of the copies sold for less than that) = 120 000 000 now lets be generous and say that the retailer only takes 50% you have 60 000 000 left then the publisher takes most of it. so lets say another 50% to be generous 30 000 000 so on a 22 000 000 budget it sold for 30 000 000 for the developer after a bunch of years. now pay the big team that made the game every employees at crytek almost with that money for 3 years. theres not much left.

Starcraft is a battle.net game you tie your game to an account or you cant play online. same thing for cataclysm i'm sure your intelligent enought to understand its not the same thing at all for a shooter or a single player game.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/55906/world-of-goo-co-creator

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/08/machinarium-suffers-95-piracy-rate-offers-5-amnesty-sale.ars

Cevat Yerli of Crytek, the makers of Far Cry, Crysis and Crysis Warhead has publicly stated:
We are suffering currently from the huge piracy that is encompassing Crysis. We seem to lead the charts in piracy by a large margin, a chart leading that is not desirable. I believe that’s the core problem of PC Gaming, piracy, to the degree [that PC gamers who] pirate games inherently destroy the platform. Similar games on consoles sell factors of 4-5 more. It was a big lesson for us and I believe we won’t have PC exclusives as we did with Crysis in future.

they proved it with the multi platform AAA game crysis 2

John Carmack, often called the 'father of PC gaming', and co-founder of id software, makers of the Doom and Quake series, recently stated:
It's hard to second guess exactly what the reasons are. You can say piracy. You can say user migration, but the ground truth is just that the sales numbers on the PC are not what they used to be and are not what they are on the consoles.

and i will add that games cost more to make

Chris Taylor of Gas Powered Games, makers of Supreme Commander, also chimes in with his assessment:
...people are going to stop making [games] on the PC because of my earlier point, what's happened on the PC with piracy. The economics are ugly right now on the PC. You're not going to see these gigantic, epic investments of dollars on the PC when it just doesn't work. The economics have to work. You're going to see those investments made on the console side and it's going to become a more console-centric investment. And then you're going to see them ported back over to the PC and that creates a different experience on the PC.

they dont do it because they dont like PC they do it because of PC Gamers

finaly i will add something from a company we all love

Bethesda Softworks, makers of The Elder Scrolls series and most recently Fallout 3 had this to say on the issue of the scale and costs of piracy-related tech support:
The amount of times we see stuff coming through where it’s like, the resolution to the problem was [the] guy had a pirated copy of the game… The amount of money we spend supporting people who didn’t pay us for the game in the first place…it’s f–ing ludicrous. We talk to other developers, guys who are [like] ‘Yeah, it’s a third, it’s 50% of our [customer] support.’

» Tue May 03, 2011 3:51 am

Welcome in the pc players universe where people pirates their game and because of that developers decide to favor console players. PC Players made this problem and now they complain about it.

You do know that the first leaked copy of Fallout 3 was the 360 version? The first leaked copy of Mass Effect 2 was the 360 version?

Welcome to the video gamers universe, where games are pirated. It really doesn't matter which platform.

» Tue May 03, 2011 4:10 am

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/16252-bethesda-90-of-elder-scrolls-audience-on-consoles

Is this accurate? Does anyone have the links to full Oblivion sales records? Were 10% of the sales only on pc..? That seems rather low even for TES.

Not a console war or bashfest, rather an information inquery. I have no opinion on the matter.

>> According to VGcharts, PS3 and xbox360 Oblivion sold 5.5 million total. That means PC only sold 550k? I'm sure it is alot more than that..

Update

It is impossible that the game only sold 550k on PC.

Steam/ impulse/d2d/gog

Not caclulated with that total also when ever oblivion goes on sale...IT SALES very well.

Also add to the fact if a dev sales a $60 console game vs a $30 steam game, that said dev gets more money from selling a game on steam.

» Tue May 03, 2011 10:11 am

You do know that the first leaked copy of Fallout 3 was the 360 version? The first leaked copy of Mass Effect 2 was the 360 version?

Welcome to the video gamers universe, where games are pirated. It really doesn't matter which platform.

have a look at this and see why it matters :

Fallout 3 (released Oct. 30 2008):

PC Version:

Fallout 3-RELOADED--cgaurav?-- - 75,152
Fallout 3 Full-Rip Skullptura - 72,987
Fallout 3-RELOADED.[sitenameremoved.org] - 48,926
Fallout 3 [PC] - 45,130
Fallout.3-RELOADED.[sitenameremoved.com] - 12,226
Fallout 3-RELOADED [Full ISO/RPG/2008] - 12,110
FALLOUT 3-TRiViUM - 5,032

I counted almost 90 individual torrents for the full PC version of Fallout 3. The small sample listed above adds up to 271,563 downloads in a one month period.

XBox 360 Version:

Fallout 3 USA XBOX360-RUiNS - 6,649
Fallout 3 READNFO XBOX360-Seed4ME - 5,612
Fallout 3 PAL XBOX360-GLoBAL - 4,220
Fallout 3 GERMAN-0x0007 - 2,336
Fallout 3 USA PROPER RETAIL XBOX360-x360inT - 1,171

I counted around 30 individual torrents for the XBox 360 version of Fallout 3. The sample listed above adds up to 19,988 downloads in a one month period.

thanks.

there are not only less pirates on consoles there is a smaller percentage. they sell more and the pirate are still a fraction of the pirates on PC explain that

» Tue May 03, 2011 4:43 am

I'm not surprised by that number but the 10% have it better then the other 90% the reason being, mods and graphics. I also think DRM isn't helping things out when you put in ridiculous stuff like Forcing to use Steam.

» Mon May 02, 2011 7:34 pm

You do know that the first leaked copy of Fallout 3 was the 360 version? The first leaked copy of Mass Effect 2 was the 360 version?

Welcome to the video gamers universe, where games are pirated. It really doesn't matter which platform.

To be fair though it's far easier and more rampant on PC. With xbox as I recall you can only use pirated games on a system that's really old with a certain firmware which makes it much rarer whereas you can pirate on pretty much any PC no matter what. A console is also permanently banned from live if it is discovered to be hacked whereas on PC there's no way to tell and therefore no consequences.

» Mon May 02, 2011 10:53 pm

I'm not surprised by that number but the 10% have it better then the other 90% the reason being, mods and graphics. I also think DRM isn't helping things out when you put in ridiculous stuff like Forcing to use Steam.

DRM Causes Piracy

Some people argue that because various copy protection and DRM methods can cause potential problems for legitimate purchasers, this in effect drives a proportion of legitimate purchasers to piracy in an effort to rid themselves of these problems. This is logically plausible, in that based on various comments around the Internet, it appears that some people genuinely believe that the only way they can avoid the supposedly horrendous impacts of DRM is to pirate a game rather than purchase it.

However firstly we need to consider how we got into this situation in the first place. Newton's Third Law of Motion states: "To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." Games didn't originally come with any intrusive protection. Over time, as we've seen from the data in earlier sections of this article, piracy has come to reach truly staggering proportions, and imposes various costs and risks on developers and publishers. Faced with the extreme situation of potentially more people pirating a game than there are legitimate purchasers, and thus the vast majority of their 'customers' being people who are free riders that contribute absolutely nothing, indeed many of them even drawing on expensive tech support resources for games which they've pirated, games companies have resorted to DRM as an equally extreme response.

The argument that removing DRM will result in a net increase in sales has no basis in fact based on the evidence at hand. Not only does gaming history show that unprotected games simply lead to more piracy, recent history also demonstrates clearly that simply removing DRM is not the answer to piracy. As we saw in the Scale of Piracy section, many popular games which have no intrusive DRM, such as Assassin's Creed, Crysis, Call of Duty 4 and World of Goo, also have some of the highest piracy rates in 2008. Indeed as I write this, the new Prince of Persia game was released yesterday for PC (December 10, 2008) with absolutely no DRM protection, and a quick look at torrents shows that the pirated version is available, and on two popular torrent links alone there are over 23,000 people downloading the game within the first 24 hours. The evidence is overwhelmingly clear: DRM does not cause piracy, piracy results in DRM.

i'd like you to consider that and take back your words.

» Tue May 03, 2011 5:49 am

i'd like you to consider that and take back your words.

And yet you wonder why the PC gaming industry is slowly dying. If people would cut the snake off the head instead of catering to those [censored] pirates then Developers wouldn't have as many problems. It's a no win situation that will eventually kill all PC gaming that's not an MMO.

» Mon May 02, 2011 11:11 pm

I don't think it's that far off. Bethesda is just getting bigger and bigger, which means they're reaching a much broader audience of gamers. It might be unfortunate, but it's true that more gamers these days play a console as opposed to the PC. Still, among hardcoe TES fans, it's probably more like 50-50. I've got both Morrowind and Oblivion on both PC and Xbox/360.

I prefer the gaming experience of the console, being able to play on my big screen HD TV with surround sound, and the comfort of my couch. But I still can't resist modding! So I still play on the PC often as well.

» Tue May 03, 2011 3:26 am

Yeah definitely, Consoles are just way more mainstream/cheaper. The most hardcoe fans are on the PC though...

I'm a really hardcoe fan on the console... so maybe I'm an anomaly

Hahahahahaha cheaper? rofl :turned: you just made my day good sir!

ok in my currency, console games cost up to 13k (some even go a bit higher) when they're new, but they cost up to an 8k (as an absolute maximum) on pc. so explain to me how consoles are cheaper? the console itself maybe yes. but not the games.

90% tho... jesus christ, where did all these epic modders come from then? is like, every 20th person that bought the game on PC supposedly a modder then?, i'm sorry, i agree with the OP this just doesn't match up, 10% is impossible, 30% is what i'd guess to be lowest and 40%-70% is what i'd expect. something is not right here, of course i know why this happened, but piracy is not a subject that is allowed on this forum so i'll try to restrict myself. so those who steal games just get worse future games in return for every game they steal, gradually of course. the solution to this issue should easily be reducing the price of games by a whole 50% at least. that way much more people would buy the games. now i don't know who is so greedy, distributors or publishers, i just know someones making sure computer games are overpriced, no matter how much people value the work of game developers, if they can't afford the games they want to play everyone loses.

I can't possibly play TES or any First Person Shooter on a console, i hate the controllers. the only things i can play are turn based strategy games kindof like final fantasy series. something where i don't need to use the damned god forsaken pins, those things are supposed to provide with precision and accuracy? give me a break how can i aim with an object that just wildly turns in circles, up-down-left-right is the only thing i can control with these damn things, so Tekken and Soul Calibur ftw!!

» Tue May 03, 2011 1:25 am

And yet you wonder why the PC gaming industry is slowly dying. If people would cut the snake off the head instead of catering to those [censored] pirates then Developers wouldn't have as many problems. It's a no win situation that will eventually kill all PC gaming that's not an MMO.

im not wondering at all why pc gaming industry is slowly dying. its slowly dying because of the high rates of piracy

» Tue May 03, 2011 12:56 am

I don't think it's that far off. Bethesda is just getting bigger and bigger, which means they're reaching a much broader audience of gamers. It might be unfortunate, but it's true that more gamers these days play a console as opposed to the PC. Still, among hardcoe TES fans, it's probably more like 50-50. I've got both Morrowind and Oblivion on both PC and Xbox/360.

I prefer the gaming experience of the console, being able to play on my big screen HD TV with surround sound, and the comfort of my couch. But I still can't resist modding! So I still play on the PC often as well.

i think you got your demographics wrong because i know MANY elder scrolls hardcoe fans they dig the news and stuff like that and they are excited as hell for skyrim and they were excited for oblivion. the thing is going on forums seems to be a PC Gamer things to me (i might be wrong) but console players use their computers way less than pc gamers do (excluding gaming) so they are less incline to come here on the forum even if they are just as fans as anyone here

» Tue May 03, 2011 1:27 am

I personally play on the 360. But thats because im 16 so I dont have enough money for a good rig.

» Tue May 03, 2011 10:47 am

Hahahahahaha cheaper? rofl :turned: you just made my day good sir!

ok in my currency, console games cost up to 13k (some even go a bit higher) when they're new, but they cost up to an 8k (as an absolute maximum) on pc. so explain to me how consoles are cheaper? the console itself maybe yes. but not the games.

90% tho... jesus christ, where did all these epic modders come from then? is like, every 20th person that bought the game on PC supposedly a modder then?, i'm sorry, i agree with the OP this just doesn't match up, 10% is impossible, 30% is what i'd guess to be lowest and 40%-70% is what i'd expect. something is not right here, altho i think i know why it was so little purchased on pc, however it is illegal to discuss on these forums, so i wont say why.

well you have to consider that millions of people pirated the game and out of those many are modders too.

» Tue May 03, 2011 11:46 am

You have to laugh, alot of people are saying Todd has his facts wrong. If anyone who would know, it would be Todd. Todd has access to Bethesda sales. I am sure Bethesda knows how much money it has made from digitial distrubution. So now people are saying Bethesda's figures are wrong for digital and PC sales now eh? :rofl:

It's not that Todd is wrong about sales. However, I would say that it is more like 80% of people are on the console because as I said earlier, pirating of the PC version skews just how many people really play the pc.

» Mon May 02, 2011 7:31 pm

well you have to consider that millions of people pirated the game and out of those many are modders too.

(edited my post a bit since you replied, but) yeah, it saddens me a bit tho, how many gamers need to resort to pirating, i doubt many of them want to. pirates aren't the devil, they're just thieves. pirating a game and buying it just can't be the same, i like my covers and dvds. i hate the idea of pirating games.

» Tue May 03, 2011 11:32 am

It's not that Todd is wrong about sales. However, I would say that it is more like 80% of people are on the console because as I said earlier, pirating of the PC version skews just how many people really play the pc.

console is their market and a huge part of their audience. PC is another huge part of their audience but its not a huge part of their markey unfortunately

» Tue May 03, 2011 12:57 am

(edited my post a bit since you replied, but) yeah, it saddens me a bit tho, how many gamers need to resort to pirating, i doubt many of them want to. pirates aren't the devil, they're just thieves. pirating a game and buying it just can't be the same, i like my covers and dvds. i hate the idea of pirating games.

believe me it saddens me too. im not a console fan boy and im not a PC fan boy either. i play both my PC and my 360. in fact they are next to each other. but thats how the market goes. the thing that can enlighten our existence a bit is that the next generation of consoles is probably comming not too late i say by the end of 2013 even the sony console will be out

» Mon May 02, 2011 8:35 pm

I see people referring to the amount of pc's owned in the country like thats an indication as too how many people would buy the game for a pc, man you are way off, I dont know about you, but in my household and in my family and friends house holds the pc is used by every1, and nobody likes a slow computer for surfing the web or for downloading music and videos, or even when just checking facebook and twitter or hotmail, so downloading a game to it would piss half my family off right off the bat, now I am the owner of my pc so no one tells me what I can and cant put on it, but I dont like the head aches stemming from the griping so I play on consoles for that reason also, and there are unexpected cost with pc's that see this much use in the modern household (due to kids that download stuff that they shouldnt mainly) but I wont get into all of them but this is a big reason many comp owners dont use them for gaming.

» Tue May 03, 2011 6:15 am

I see people referring to the amount of pc's owned in the country like thats an indication as too how many people would buy the game for a pc, man you are way off, I dont know about you, but in my household and in my family and friends house holds the pc is used by every1, and nobody likes a slow computer for surfing the web or for downloading music and videos, or even when just checking facebook and twitter or hotmail, so downloading a game to it would piss half my family off right off the bat, now I am the owner of my pc so no one tells me what I can and cant put on it, but I dont like the head aches stemming from the griping so I play on consoles for that reason also, and there are unexpected cost with pc's that see this much use in the modern household (due to kids that download stuff that they shouldnt mainly) but I wont get into all of them but this is a big reason many comp owners dont use them for gaming.

I'd also like to add that this $600 laptop just isn't meant for gaming, either. It's my mom's, she's not a gamer, and this thing can't play Oblivion. She bought it in late 2009. I would be willing to bet that the household computer is not, on average, even as capable of gaming as either a 360 or a PS3.