Most useless skill trees? : V - Skyrim

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:18 am

Sigh.
I was talking dragonscale armour.

And you are really, really wrong.
If you only go up the heavy smithing tree you simply cannot make dragonscale armour.
If you only have the light side you cannot make dragonbone armour.
You will need both perk trees if you want to make them both.

You are so wrong.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:05 am

You are so wrong.

For the last time.
Would you mind reading a conversation before hitting the reply button at the first chance you get at making a snide remark?
Page 4. This very thread.
Sheesh.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:30 pm

Anyhoo.. lockpicking and speech are as worthless as they've always been. Why they didn't acually cut them instead of acrobatics and athletics which acually had some use is beyond me.
Imagine a perk tree with acrobatic dodges, climbing skills, kicks and punches, how awsome would that be?
Way more awsome than making wax keys and getting 10% better prices in a game where you have too much money, that's how awsome it would be.

Because the unrealistic speeds and jumps were just bad design in my opinion. as for speech I actualy find it usefull considering that I'm always sitting on boatloads of loot that I can't vendor off because all merchants are at 0 money... unless your one of those who fast travels to each city to sell.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:34 pm

I do not have much of an issue with the Lockpicking, Speechcraft or Pickpocketing trees. I have a problem that they SHARE PERK POINTS WITH COMBAT SKILLS. If they moved these off to their own separate progression path that don't share perk points that would be fantastic. Further, I think they should add even more non-combat related Perk Trees to this pool for characters. These would be Utility trees and trees specifically aimed at increasing the immersion and ability for players to create a unique character. Also, on a side note I believe CRAFTING in particular should be moved to its own pool and the crafting system should also see the introduction of Spellcrafting with all 3 of the current trees receiving a TREMENDOUS overall and the addition of many more perks to compensate for them moving to their own pool to help players to specialize, rather than pick up the obviously best perks from all 3 trees with minimal investment. What this would mean would be that Light and Heavy Smithing would be separated much better. I see a particular problem with the fact that the only thing that really matters from the Smithing tree is Daedric and Dragon (if you are Light) or really JUST Daedric if you wear Heavy since it provides both the best armor and weapons. Anything up until then is obsolete the moment you are able to craft a higher tier. I would like to see for the crafting tree perks to always give you a benefit and never become obsolete and simply "wasted" pre-req points.

'

This! I would love to see separation between combat perks and other perks. I would like to see them add a few trees then to noncombat, add H2H to combat and go from there. Every time you level you would get 1 combat perk, 1 profession perk, and 1 character perk (speech, lockpicking, other immersion type things maybe investing or some type of property perks).

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:28 am

Breton is also the best race.
25% passive given
+25% passive lord guardian stone
+30% passive alteration perks

I always thought this was true in Oblivion as well coupled with the Mage Specialization and Apprentice Birthsign. Although I really find highbirth to be pretty good in skyrim as well as nighteye exclusive for Khajiits to be pretty cool too.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:08 pm

'

This! I would love to see separation between combat perks and other perks. I would like to see them add a few trees then to noncombat, add H2H to combat and go from there. Every time you level you would get 1 combat perk, 1 profession perk, and 1 character perk (speech, lockpicking, other immersion type things maybe investing or some type of property perks).

Seriously, this makes the most sense as previous TES titles always separated 3 Primary Skills, then 3 Major Skills, then 6 Minor Skills. You could keep with that theme and rename them Combat Tree, Character Tree, Profession Tree. Why on Earth would you change a system entirely rather than just streamlining it? Combining trees is not streamlining or homogenizing, it forces players to choose between Major or Minor Skills, and for the vast vast vast majority of players, that is a no-brainer to pick the Major skills that directly affect your character's effectiveness in combat.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:07 pm

In my personal opinion, lockpicking or pickpocket shouldn't have been a skill. Just put them under sneak, hell.

Actually, after some thinking, I think that they should be a skill of it's own, but with improved perks.
When you think about it, picking locks has nothing to do with sneaking (same for pickpocketing - I can confirm that from personal experience, hehe).
I personally think that Light Armor and Heavy Armor skills should be merged into one skill called Armor (would be located in Warrior branch just like Heavy Armor), and fill free spot with Unarmored and give it some Athletics/Acrobatics-like perks.
With that move, we could have 3 old skills return that way!

I do not have much of an issue with the Lockpicking, Speechcraft or Pickpocketing trees. I have a problem that they SHARE PERK POINTS WITH COMBAT SKILLS. If they moved these off to their own separate progression path that don't share perk points that would be fantastic. Further, I think they should add even more non-combat related Perk Trees to this pool for characters. These would be Utility trees and trees specifically aimed at increasing the immersion and ability for players to create a unique character. Also, on a side note I believe CRAFTING in particular should be moved to its own pool and the crafting system should also see the introduction of Spellcrafting with all 3 of the current trees receiving a TREMENDOUS overall and the addition of many more perks to compensate for them moving to their own pool to help players to specialize, rather than pick up the obviously best perks from all 3 trees with minimal investment. What this would mean would be that Light and Heavy Smithing would be separated much better. I see a particular problem with the fact that the only thing that really matters from the Smithing tree is Daedric and Dragon (if you are Light) or really JUST Daedric if you wear Heavy since it provides both the best armor and weapons. Anything up until then is obsolete the moment you are able to craft a higher tier. I would like to see for the crafting tree perks to always give you a benefit and never become obsolete and simply "wasted" pre-req points.

I agree with most of the post, but the bold part is part I agree the most and was actually thinking the same thing few days ago.
If it gets it's own branch, Smith could be divided to 3 skills (Armor Smith, Weapon Smith, Fletching), and could have Alchemy and Enchanting join it (that's 5 skills already).
Also, making jewelry and clothes could also get a skill of it's own, and maybe even cooking.
Still, I doubt that it will ever happen.

Locking isn't bad - I am after the treasure hunter perk - "50% greater chance of finding special treasure"

This is an RPG - only you can decide what is best for your character

Wrong.
Some things are useless no matter how you look at it.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:13 pm

This has been posted before, but I think it's worth reposting:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/9245-Critical-Miss-Skyrim-Tales

Basically, the fundamental problem is that skills like lockpicking and speechcraft which do ab[censored]ely nothing to make you better at combat, make all your enemies better at combat, so unless you really want a strong challenge, you kind of have to avoid those skills, especially early in character development (maybe later on when you're a walking death-machine anyhow, sure, start levelling non-combat skills).

So, I'm totally with the suggestion that non-combat skills be seperated out into a seperate "pool" which doesn't make enemies level up.

However, alchemy, enchanting, and smithing are arguably combat skills, as they should make you much more capable of surviving combat and dominating your enemies, so I don't have a problem with those skills increasing your character level.

The other major flaw with the character system is that a character who has levelled up 5 or 10 times in a single skill tree, and perked it, will usually be much more powerful than someone who spreads out their levelling across 3 or 4 trees. Master of Destruction, but only level 10? Watch the faces of your enemies melt. Level 40 in Destruction, Conjuration, Restoration, Alteration, and Light Armor? Not nearly as powerful.

I hate character systems that do that.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:47 pm

I find that getting the Speech perk where you can sell any type of item to any merchant makes the game less annoying and more fun getting back into the action sooner so I would go with that for any character.

I agree that Lockpicking is a useless skill tree, unless you are a real noob with no dexterity, and that's ok to be having fun with Skyrim and not being generally good at games. Maybe the 'special treasures' perk is good? I don't know.

A better design for Speech would be to have many more occasions for it to be genuinely useful and purposeful. You should have to persuade the best followers to follow you etc.

Maybe lockpicking, pickpocket and sneak should be combined into a Thief Skills tree, freeing up space for other things.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:09 am

Some of the stuff you say is true, most of the stuff you mention is personal opinion but you state as facts.
You are powergaming, which is fine for pvp-oriented or competitive games, but it is pointless in a single-player role playing game, unless you like that sort of thing.
I play on master in a completely different way than you and haven't had a single problem. I even completely ignored enchanting, alchemy, and smithing.
There is no such thing as an ideal perfect build.

:foodndrink:

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:01 am

If you played fallout 3 then master locks are a total joke.

They could of made it so people sorta had to put points in the skill. They can do this by after a certain amount of attempts the lock breaks and if they added force lock. At least you can put a perk point into a slot that makes it so locks will not break.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:43 am

i actually use the speech but i never placed a single perk in lockpick

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:42 pm

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6atrr267ueA]

@Vangrabish

The Skeleton Key is still in the game.

The skeleton key is in the game for one quest only, then you have to turn it it, hence, I dont count that.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:36 pm

No, that is not true.
If you went up the heavy branch you will not be able to make scale armour, just bone.
If you went up the light branch you can make only scale.
To make both bone and scale armour you need both light and heavy perk trees.

I'm 100 and I can do both though I skilled only the heavy branch...

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:39 pm

Funny, i see lots of people complaining about combining mysticism with other spell schools and axes, maces and swords to one handed and two handed. Now somebody wants less skills.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:37 am

Funny, i see lots of people complaining about combining mysticism with other spell schools and axes, maces and swords to one handed and two handed. Now somebody wants less skills.

I don't think anyone here wants less skills, just more meaningful and useful ones.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:05 pm

I'd go as far as to say pickpocketing is pointless. After raising it to 100 and getting all the perks I was frustrated to find out I still had a sizable chance to fail. Waste of damn time.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:56 pm

I took Speech and Lockpicking and some perks of Pickpocketing for role-playing purposes because they suit my thief character. You know, that role playing thing, that people do in role playing games instead of powergaming. It makes it more fun and more of a challenge if you are able to concentrate on non combat skills.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:47 pm

I'm 100 and I can do both though I skilled only the heavy branch...

You havent read the thread, have you?

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:09 am

I have placed points in lockpicking, pickpocketing and speech, for roleplaying reasons. But it's not like I'd have anywhere else to place those points, as my character is a sneak archer with maxed sneak and archery (all the combat skills he'll ever need).

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:43 pm

Lockpicking hands down is worthless. You can easily buy 8 lock picks here, 5 here, 1 here, find them all over the place (I Think everyone picks locks in this game! lol)

If's funny...When I have 99+ Lock Picks...its like locks open by them selves...
when I have 5? lmao "Good luck getting into experts and higher!"

Picking Pockets is useful, I like Using Persuade/Intimidate on Speech, also selling stolen goods to anyone (Specially for us non-thieves guild members) works awesome lol

I believe like...Conjuration could have been cut down a whole side...they should have just put Zombie/Reanimate with the Atronachs...seriously...splitting them up was "Well we don't have Mysticsm..."

to be honest...these "Skill trees" was too World of Warcraft for me...should have just stuck to what they had in Oblivion/Morrowind, when you hit level 25 you get a power attack...when you hit level 50, you get this power attack etc...etc...not..."USE PERK TREES! YAY!"

You know...with how they always had Spells set up...they could have just did it via BUYING Talents from trainers. I.E. Do you want to do a power attack? Well you need to be level 50 to use it and you have to learn it from a master...not...YOU NEED POWER STANCE BEFORE YOU CAN DECAPITATE A GUY! <------RE....FRIGGEN...TARDED BETHESDA!

Talent Trees = svck on this scale of a game...now everyone is doing it, it seems thanks to MMO's...

f------ [censored]...

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:51 pm

Lockpicking tree = Worthless. Abundancy of lockpicks & other workarounds, along with the Skeleton Key making the entire tree completely redundant. Gold is overabundant mast mid-game and player-crafted items are always going to be better (and available sooner) than anything you'll find in a random chest.

Speechcraft = Worthless, except for convenience or role-playing purposes. I just console command the merchant perks & persuasion/intimidation perks. Don't want to be bothered with going to 5 different merchants to sell off all my gear, or not be able to say what I wan't to an NPC.

How why do I need a perk to sell stolen goods to merchants? How the heck does a merchant in Windhelm know what I stole from Markarth?

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:10 pm

I would have to say Speech, Lockpicking, and even Pickpocketing are all kind of useless.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:26 pm

The perks system actually reminds me of the Charm Trees in Exalted, except with a lot less awesome. The spell level perks only exist because they're necessities with so many of the spells costing over 100 magicka each, and even then you run out of mana way too fast and mana doesn't regenerate fast enough in combat because it's not hard enough being a caster.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:46 am

Lock Picking is the most useless. There aren't enough Expert and Master locks to waste the perks on, and the stuff inside those locked locations is leveled just like everything else is.