Be honest, has anyone even put a single perk point on Speech or Lockpicking?

Speech, because its too damn easy to get gold in the game, therefore making any points on that absolutely unnecessary, as for Lockpicking, you get those lil things all the time, and once you get the hang of it you can open master locks with 2-3 of them.

Well master locks are still a pain even at max skill, I would kill to get the master lock perk without having to choose all the previous perks.

yeah i definitally found lockpicking to be the most useless redundant tree. If you spent a point on any perk in lockpicking, then god have mercy on your soul.
I mean seriously, 4 perks that are make novice, apprentice etc easier? are you kidding me? And even my holy cleric character who has no access to thieves guild or brotherhood is always sitting at 99+ lockpicks. I dont mind spending sometimes 10 lockpicks on a master lock (usually only that bad once every 10 locks).

I really wished they scrapped the lockpicking tree and replaced it with athletics/acrobatics, and made some dodge moves and make it so you can run faster and jump further and [censored].

A few speech perks isn't that bad. Very easy to drop 20k gold on skill trainers (just for 5 points) and buying ebony ingots to make a full set of upgraded gear can get expensive in itself.

lockpicking

if you have 200 lockpicks and facing a master chest, you didn't have to worry though.

Lots of them are worthless.

Lock pick tree
Speech tree
Light armor smithing branch, you can perk Deadra weapons and use the light Dragon armor
Pretty much every level 100 combat with a 25% chance or less to do something
Light and Heavy armor level 100 with a 10% chance to do something
Enchant elements, the hp absorb and stamina is better
Alchemy poisons in general or anything above the percent buff of good effects
Archery right side branch, just pointless along with the level 100 skill also pointless

Breton is also the best race.
25% passive given
+25% passive lord guardian stone
+30% passive alteration perks

80% passive all magic elements without any enchants that you should put towards recovery

+100 carry from pick pocket
enchanting 2
alchemy buffs
smith right side only
light armor for passive stamina recovery
restoration stamina recovery and mp regain
one handed with a suped up weapon with enchants and healing yourself while recovering stamina at the same time is the ideal perfect build

Lockpicking shouldn't even be a skill. Locks don't get any easier as your skill increases, the only thing that changes that is perks. You can either tackle a Master lock or you cannot. Worse thing is lockpicks are everywhere. Most merchants carry 5-15 of them when their inventory restocks and bandits drop them half of the time.

Speech is just as useless. A skill to increase gold in a game where gold is too easy to come by.

Also..

Inb4 I want to roleplay a character with bad perks.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Lockpick tree, speechcraft tree.

Like in Oblivion, opening locks is a pure question of player skill. Bad, bad decision for a Role playing game (notice the world "role"). Even if this is action RPG at worst it should be split 50%-50% between the player skills and the character abilities. Take the perks only if you svck at opening locks. I've something like 100+ lockpicks and the number keeps growing because it takes me at most 2-3 lockpicks to open a master lock using a 'secant method' approach. If you use a gamepad (even on PC) the force feedback prevents you from breaking a lockpick 80% of the time.

Speechcraft: another useless perk tree. Economy is broken like in the past games. It's too easy to get rich and I've still to encounter a situation where persuasion or intimidation is truly useful. I wish speechcraft doesn't go up everytime I sell some crap. It only makes me leveling up faster

Lock picking is definitely 100% the most useless tree in the game, then speech in 2nd. Of course Enchanting, Smithing and Alchemy together are the most overpowered, give me my uber sword and armor that I barely know how to use but can strike down an elder dragon in 4 hits regardless of that fact. Add in combat skill, possibly as little as 1 or 2 hits.



Agent of Mara +15% magic resistance
now at a 95% passive all magic elements without any enchants... yeah Breton is OPed but let's remember all it toke in Oblivion was wearing Mundane Ring to get 100% magic resistance for Breton... then again attributes split the races up more in that game. Magicka, Health and Stamina didn't need to start at 100 for every race (with the exception high elves 150 magicka, of course).

Some perks killed the skills.Or vice versa,I'm not sure.

Those damage amplifying perks,or lockpicking perks...or any perk that statistically ups your efficiency of that skill.Completely meaningless I say.Yes,they do their job but that should have been governed by the skill.What are skills for anyway now? Just milestones for unlocking perks?

When I reach level 75 in lockpicking,the game should have automatically granted the expert locks becoming easier perk.
Or if I can unlock a perk that makes two handed weapons %60 stronger by skill level 30,just make it so that the weapons become %2 stronger each time I improve the skill.

If you think that way,most of the perks are not a part of a new system,but just work of skill system manualized.Which in return renders skill progression less meaningful.

As long as we don't have to bunnyhop to increase it, I'm with you.


At the very least they should have made the lockpicking system like FO3. Not level X in lockpicking? Sorry, lock Y is unpickable until you reach level X.

Skeleton key and/or hundreds upon hundreds of lockpicks you'll pick up make it pointless.

I always did find Conjuration to be poor. Using bound weapons to get souls? If you're using bound weapon you're hardly in need of soul gems. And longer summons? You can re-summon them so fast when you want it anyway. They should have made Conjuration so that in enhances the summons instead.

Speech, well... takes forever to skill this one. Atleast for me. I never bothered with trying to get this tree going.

Lockpicking, also takes forever. Pointless perks into Novice and Apprentice locks? Come on.

But, I make do with them as they're what we got.

Because Bethesda forgot to try their game out for more than a single shallow play through.

Uselessness of lockpicking and speechcraft becomes obvious the moment you visit a vendor and find few lockpicks for sale. Only way they didn't realize this was that they hardly ever played through their own game.

Which is a loss on their end because it's actually very fun.

Some of the stuff you say is true, most of the stuff you mention is personal opinion but you state as facts.
You are powergaming, which is fine for pvp-oriented or competitive games, but it is pointless in a single-player role playing game, unless you like that sort of thing.
I play on master in a completely different way than you and haven't had a single problem. I even completely ignored enchanting, alchemy, and smithing.
There is no such thing as an ideal perfect build.

I don't even think about perking them. They are useless, because none of them actually do anything productive at later levels, and by the time you can get the final perks in their respective trees, you don't need them anymore.

I haven't played yet - waiting for my Christmas present to get shipped out here - but anyhow - for Speech, there are a few that would work well for my character - as I would be a thieving bastard. First of all, being able to sell anything to anyone would be nice - and also being able to sell anything stolen to someone you have invested in is also nice. Sure, other than that I don't like the tree. I mean, if you can't sell stolen items again - someone somehow automagically knows that they aren't yours to sell - if I don't go into the Speech perk that negates that, there is another option - using everything stolen to create something else...

I would say, sine this is an RPG, that no skill tree is useless. They are some that are far better than others but based on how you RP or want to set your chracter up, none are absolutely useless.

That may be true on some degree for Speech, but Lockpicking still doesnt have an excuse, RP or not, you dont need perks on the skill tree to be good at it

There were people that couldn't "get" lockpicking in both Oblivion and Fallout 3. That being said, there are some people out there that will need the perks to be able to lockpick in Skyrim.

lets just say you'll quickly find speech is completely useless as its super easy to get money about 6 other ways.

There are some decent perks to increase your loot in the lockpicking tree. Not worth the 3-4 perks you have to take to get them though.

But seriously, who needs a perk to open a novice or apprentice lock? It's incredibly easy, even at 15 skill.

I see your point for the first couple, but what about more gold, better loot and one unbreakable lockpick?

I had plenty of left over perks after 40(my main build was complete) so I just put them in speech for the hell of it.