"Yes its canon as much as i wish it wasn't."

I recently completed all the achievements in F3 but i rushed through MZ the first time so i forgot to get the "Alien Archivist" so i had to play through it again... :cryvaultboy:

Best way to do this is i found, is grab the best heavy weapon you have and kill everything.

Where is the "Who Really Cares? I mean, really?" option?

I personally don't care if it's considered, "CANON" or not. I enjoyed MZ. I enjoyed all of the DLC's in fact. If Beth decided to bring the aliens back to New Vegas or FO4 I'd be ok with it. Because, I personally couldn't care one way or the other. :shrug:

I would say, yes it is canon.

Here are my reasons, not necessarily in order.

1. Roswell, July 8, 1947. Roswell Army Air Field (RAAF) public information office in Roswell, New Mexico, issued a press release stating that personnel from the field's 509th Bomb Group had recovered a crashed "flying disc" from a ranch near Roswell.

2. 1950s mindset of a dystopian future after a nuclear holocaust. Now, while this isn't specifically aliens, we are speaking of the 1950s and the Roswell incident. People in the 1950s really believed "they" were watching us.

3. Aliens mentioned in previous Fallouts even if not specifically seen.

4. The aliens in Zeta are the stereotypical "gray men".

5. Bethesda has decided to release a full DLC about aliens. Being the final arbiters of canon in what is now their intellectual property, they do have the final say. Either that or this is the biggest easter egg I have ever seen in any game.

6. Retcon. Almost every game sequel, written fiction series, TV show, movie sequel, comic book series has retconned something into its past at one time or another. (Big examples, Crisis on Infinite Earths and Infinite Crisis in the DC comics universe <>, and the "Reboot" of the Batman movies).

7. Crashed alien ship in Fallout 3.

8. Random encounter of the exploding spaceship in Fallout 3.

Now, had Black Isles kept the IP, and had released a Fallout 3 with an encounter similar to MZ, I can honestly say that I doubt there would be anywhere near the level of discontent among those saying that this is not canon. Be honest here and admit it.

I honestly see no problem with MZ being canon. It's not even definitively stated that Aliens started the great war- for one thing, the holotape that implies it has NO SOUND, so the only way to see it is by reading the subtitles. It's possible that Bethesda was thinking about including it, decided not to, and forgot to replace that recording with a different one.

For another, the recording isn't proof of anything. You could interpret it as "Aliens stole the launch codes from his mind!" But IIRC, the recording is found in the room with the dead Anchorage army medics. Now why would some random medic know the launch codes?

The guy was probably just going insane from the stress.

TL;DR, bethesda trolled you, Aliens didn't start the great war.

I can't remember if it was in this thread or one of the half dozen other ones in this sub-forum, but I've argued before that "it fits because it's from the 50's" doesn't always cut it, exactly. In Fallout, you have two contrasting "worlds" that we're dealing with - the futurist utopia of Pre-War civilization, and the desolation of the Wasteland. The "it's retro" argument only means that it was relevant to the World Before, and not necessarily that it needs to have anything to do with the rubble that you're treading through in Fallout. Aliens having been interested in our world back before we blew it to smithereens is one thing - I'm certainly not going to argue that it doesn't fit that retro vibe; it does. But that doesn't mean it belongs in the "contemporary" setting during which the actual game, itself, takes place.

If it references the 1950's then surely it "fits" into pre-War civilization. But the whole theme of Fallout hinges on the fact that we blew the smithereens out of that world - you only encounter these references as rubble; destroyed vestiges of a once-great world. For example - George Jetson would have been perfectly at home in Fallout's universe, circa 2077, but he got vaporized during the War. Seeing George Jetson's desiccated corpse is conceivable - seeing him actually flying around between toppled buildings would be pushing it. In other words, "it's retro" only justifies something having existed pre-War; it doesn't mean it's relevant to the post-War game; save as the wreckage through which you make your journey. It's not relevant to the world you play in.

This is why I don't have a problem with the Crashed Alien Spaceship in Fallout 3. That retro stuff essentially comprises the corpse upon which the world of Fallout is set.

That only goes toward proving that it's "official," not that it has any need to be "canon." Which I don't think anyone's arguing. Of course it's "official," or "approved" content, or whatever. Bethesda itself put it out. No one's saying otherwise.

"http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/official." "http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/canon." Two different words, with two different meanings. This keeps going on and on and on, to be honest. I still think what's really at issue is that the word "canon" has pretty much lost all meaning these days - or at least doesn't mean what it used to in regards to issues of fandom. I don't even care all that much about any of this. To be honest, you guys might as well be trying to tell me that Mothership Zeta is "awesome" as well - no one's ever going to be able to get me to say that an optional part of a game that I have objectively "played" is so important that I have to consider my character as actually having been abducted by aliens - even though it never happened in my game.

If Black Isle had made Fallout 3, included an optional alien encounter that I could decide for myself whether or not buy, then made a Fallout 4 which directly referenced the events which occurred in that optional content - then it would canon.

The rest of your arguments only point to why it could "fit," not why it has to be canonized.

I've participated in no less than a dozen of these sorts of threads, which have been active since Mothership Zeta was even announced. Thus far not one single person has ever even attempted to answer the most basic question I've ever put forth - I have played Fallout 3, and that play-through included some of the DLC on offer. I started at the beginning, and I played through to the end. I have "played" Fallout 3. There were things which happened to my character, that I experienced, and those things "happened." Because I saw them, and they occurred. I do not have Mothership Zeta. Did not buy it (as it's my right to do.) Nowhere in any of the coding within the various programs that make up what is Fallout 3, is there a living alien or an abduction scenario. I finished Fallout 3, and was never abducted, I never met a live alien, there were no quests involving aliens in any way. So can someone please, for once, answer me this very basic question:

How am I supposed to feel about something that, objectively and factually, did not happen to my character? Sure, it's official - Bethesda put it out there, they made it. But I never saw any of it. GrayeWolfe, you bring up retconning, and that's what canon is capable of doing. "Canon" is when in Fallout 2 it was retconned that even if I had slaughtered everyone in Shady Sands during Fallout 1, that Tandi still survived and helped to build what would become NCR. "Canon" says that no matter what I did in Fallout 1, that in actuality I saved that town and rescued that NPC. "Canon" is when Soul Reaver begins by essentially telling me that I chose the "evil" ending in Legacy of Kain.

So what are you guys looking for when you insist that Mothership Zeta is "canon?" Are you telling me that it's so important that I must be considered to have been abducted by aliens, even if it never happened in my game? Because that's kind of what the word means to me. If you're not taking it to that level, then aren't you really just saying that it's "official content" (which no one's arguing against,) and can't I simply be allowed to blissfully ignore content that I made the educated and justified decision to not purchase?

Edit - tl;dr: Did Aliens exist in Fallout's Pre-War civilization? Possibly (and if pushed, I'd have no problem saying "yes.") Do they exist in Fallout's contemporary world during which the game is set? If you bought Mothership Zeta, then yes. If you didn't, then no. Does it really need to be any more complex than that? And why can't that be something everyone's can be happy with?

You could say the same about every Fallout 3 DLC. If i didn't buy Point Lookout, is it still canon? If i didn't buy Operation Anchorage is it still canon? I take the viewpoint that all of the DLC is either canon or it is just a bunch of very complex easter eggs.

I also take the viewpoint that just because something is not mentioned in a further iteration of a game/TV show/comic book/etc doesn't mean it isn't canon whether you experienced it or not. You could look at it this way. Mothership Zeta IS up there somewhere, they just decided not to abduct you for some reason or other.

Now, as for the difference between "Official Content" and "Canon", from my experience, when something is official in any medium it thereby becomes canon.

EDIT: I am not attempting to be argumentative with you, just giving my opinion.

That's sort of my take on it, at least. For example, I've purchased Point Lookout, but I haven't actually done anything with it yet. My character has not yet gone through that content. We are, after all, talking about an ostensibly "open world" videogame where the "point" is my ability to dictate my own experience. If it hasn't happened to me yet, then it has not happened. The only important thing is what has occurred in my own game, as far as I'm concerned - what does it matter to me what anyone else is doing with their own single-player experience?

Why would I want to, however? What do I have to gain by that viewpoint? And a videogame (especially something like Fallout,) is not a TV show, or a comic, or a book. The "point" of the game is that what you experience is not going to be the same as I what I experience. What's wrong with the concept that Mothership Zeta falls in with all the other things that make your experience of the game unique from mine? If someone puts out a new book in a series - then that "exists." Those events have "happened" whether or not I read them. I posit that the same is not true in a videogame where I'm supposed to be having a different experience than everyone else.

I'm continually more convinced that what this is really all about is semantics more than anything else. For you, they are one and the same. For myself, I've always dealt with canon as being of a higher order of hierarchy. It's long been my experience when dealing with this term in reference to videogames that it's almost always in regard to retconning after the fact. (Like if I pick a certain ending in a videogame, and then the sequel comes out with the premise that I'd picked a different one.) By that definition, there's essentially no such thing as "non-canon." And that kind of makes all this discussion rather void, I think.

If we take that line, then okay - it's "official." But it still never happened in my game. Nothing's really going to change that unless Fallout 4 comes out and insists that it did happen (and I seriously doubt that's going to be the case for something that even Bethesda has said was put together as just a bit of light-hearted fun; and something that really they probably haven't put near as much thought into concerning this stuff as any of us have, by now.)

I just don't see what's the problem with saying that you got abducted by aliens and I didn't, and leaving it at that. Whether or not that alien mothership somehow "exists" in my game is sort of like asking whether or not a tree falling in the woods makes a sound. It's esoteric and interesting to ponder, but it's not really going to effect anything. I don't have a problem with Mothership Zeta having been made. I don't have issue with players having fun with it, and considering that to be something that "happened" in their game (since it did, after all; and I certainly wouldn't argue that it didn't.) I still don't understand why it's necessary that I give it the same level of respect that other players do. Any way you want to look at it, it's still optional content. I don't need it to be able to say that I've "played" Fallout 3. And that really shouldn't be an issue, I think.

Honestly, I don't have all that much of an emotional investment in this, so don't worry. I think by this point, I'm just addicted to the debate, and I've stopped trying to fool myself into believing that I'm going to be able to just leave it alone.

If Fallout 4 comes out and Bethesda decides that Aliens need to be a major plot point, then that's another matter. It'd be something I wouldn't necessarily agree with, but I'd have to actually see it's implementation first in order to say how much I really cared. And I don't really think that's likely to happen, either. They had their fun with MZ, and I don't see them extending that theme to any major degree any time soon. And MZ is optional DLC. I have no issue with them making it. Obviously this is something some fans wanted, and putting it out as optional content is something I see as a win/win. Aliens have long been a point of contreversy in this series, and allowing each player to decide to what degree they have a role in their game is something I think is a good compromise.

The only thing I'd have issue with is anyone trying to insist that I accept it on the same existential level that they do. (ie, it's already in your game, you got what you want - it shouldn't matter whether or not I consider it be a part of "my" game, as well.)

Ah good. That's why I love these forums. Someone that doesn't dump on you then proceed to jump up and down because they don't agree with you. I love polite discourse. Thanks

I LOVED Mothership Zeta. And of course its cannon. The aliens have always been around. Now i dont think they should be incorperated anywhere else quite to the extebt of fallout 3, but still, its done, it wa a VERY GOOD DLC, and the srotry ties all the strange alien occurances into the storyline. And i think its awesome.

I played and loved and would canonize MZ as many of you already know. And I still am getting more out of these debates than the DLC gave back. I've gotten my ten dollars back out of the forum. LOL

Not at all.

Its canon. But I hope there is no large mentions of aliens ever again cept small easter eggs.

that's understandable

I couldn't vote because of a glaring omission in your poll voting options. Please add, "svck it, Trebek" so I can cast my vote. Thank you.

That said, I really don't care if MSZ is canon or not. It is what it is. I will say that I really don't want Fallout to become a story that has a lot to do with aliens, though. I think it detracts from the perfectly awesome themes already put forth by the series before the MSZ DLC was released. Subtle alien references are cute and all, but that's not what the series is about.

I didn't bother spending any money on this, or Anchorage, both of which seemed outta place to me.

In The Pitt, Ronto was mentioned, and it's presumably the Fallout version of what is currently Toronto, Canada. In Mothership Zeta, the player had the option to destroy the area where Ronto is with the Alien Death Ray. The way I see it, if Ronto is ever mentioned again, we'll have the answer to whether or not Zeta is canon when we find out what happened to Ronto. If Ronto is a smoldering crater, Zeta is canon, and if it's perfectly fine, Zeta isn't canon. Of course, you have to consider that the player wasn't forced to use the Death Ray, so Ronto still existing may not mean it isn't canon. But I'd feel confident to say Zeta wasn't canon if it still exists.

Personally, I would prefer if it wasn't canon, but I don't really care all that much either way. The general opinion seems to be that Zeta was the worst DLC, and I agree. It was nothing but an incredibly linear FPS where you shot bullet-sponge aliens and had no business being DLC for an RPG.

By default, I always consider nearly every DLCs as just extra content players can play around with and the Dev can profit from it but not to a point where I would consider it canon. The only exception to this is if the DLC was an Expansion, which in that case none exist in Fallout 3. (The only other exception that maybe consider canon might be Broken Steel aka "not killing myself because dialogue choice say so" DLC)

With that said, I would NEVER consider Mothership Zeta as part of my toon's story or as canon. Nothing more than just alien genocide that hardly hold any water into the Fallout franchise itself.

The previous Fallout games(1&2) had Ghosts, Aliens, even Godzilla, how is this DLC not canon?
Not that I give two [censored] about Fallout canon, because the Fallout universe just does whatever seems like a fun idea. And that's how it should be. Just wondering why people think this DLC should be the exception when there have been much more unbelievable paranormal incidents in previous fallout games.

What happened in previous Fallout games that's more unbelievable than:

-getting abducted by aliens
-rescuing a woman, a little girl who is vital to your survival, a cowboy, a samurai, and a wimpy soldier
-Killing every alien onboard
-Finding out they are making alien human hybrids
-Finding out the aliens may be responsible for starting the Great War
-Blowing up a city with a death ray
-Destroying another alien spaceship and sending it crashing towards earth
-And taking over the ship, killing the captain and becoming it's new captain?

If something happened in a single event in previous Fallout games that's more ridiculous and unbelievable than all of that, color me shocked.

Except I would not consider those paranormal incidents from the previous Fallout as actual event. As ya said, these Easter Eggs among obscure pop culture references are funny and meant for such randomness, but one of my main rip about Zeta was that the Dev took the Easter Egg and made money out of it. The other part is that the players automatically consider that whatever Beth makes its canon.

In other words, I think this. I would only consider what happens in the main quest as the main canon for all players. Everything else is all player's choices and actions in regards as to what happen in the wasteland, including DLC. If such major event was mention in the Next Fallout, then its canon. In other words, I would not consider that blowing up Megaton as canon as it differs/conflict other player's toons and gameplays. Same goes with whether my toon was lobotomized, made a slave, stuck in a virtual reality of the Alaska Invasion, became a sparkling vampire, sold out an android, enslaved everyone, kill the Overseer, made Dogmeat as ya pet, head shoot ghoul haters, kill Three Dog, sold the hard-to-find violin for some cheap caps, and ETC. All this I would consider as player's choice and not canon.


If one did not play the previous game, ya can read up on it. http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_special_encounters http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_2_special_encounters.

Eh I guess some of them are pretty ridiculous, but the difference is that those were easter eggs, while this was a full blown quest. :shrug:

Well yes, Zeta is a quest, but I would not consider to a point that it actually happens nor truly canon. Its there for fun and as another source of cash for the Dev to collect.

As was said, a lot of that was Easter Egg content, which isn't canon.


Not exactly. There is some rhyme and reason to it. It's not just mass chaos at the random whim of some giggling lunatic. I think.

ok so i voted yes but i sure as hell wish it wasnt.. mostly because why would aliens just sit over our planet in their big space ship and just "borrow" people from the surface.. why not launch an invasion like what was done in FO2? or seemed like in FO2.. you remember on the big boat.. when you where fixin it.. and all them aliens all over the place that kept gettin shot..

but still.. they are canon.. they have been around almost forever it seems..

Nope, I do not consider it canon. I simply consider it a big joke DLC made by Beth for the fun of expanding the Alien encounter easter Egg.
They even said in one of their interviews that they considered it a joke, didn't they?

Anyway, for me it's just one big hallucination by the Lone Wanderer, like the rest of the Fallout series Easter Eggs.