But the Roman Empire fell as well. Why not choose a totally different path if he thought pre war societies were bad.

Slavery, conquest be sheer force, and keeping order by killing have already been done and failed.

Everything will fail, because humans are not capable of governing themselves on a grand scale in anyway. It might work for hundreds of years, but sooner or later one way or another it will end badly.

In all reality small groups is probably the best way, because every one is more likely to have a say. The problem with that is they will be forced to fight with other small groups, or will be destroyed or swallowed up if a large group rolls through.

Humans are just incapable of toleranting each other for long derations.

I d rather live under todays free worlds laws "Amehricuah" may be the most free civilised nation in the world, all of Europe and many other nations are very close. Owning fire arms, and the kinds of fire arms we can own may be the only thing that sets us apart from the rest of the free world. I d rather live in any other nation in todays free world than live under cl rule. That is why NCR is better in my mind.

See this is a great example of an NCR vs Legion argument falling flat on its face. If you look at these things with a modern day perspective, you're bound to be biased no matter what.

You look at Caesars Legion from any perspective other than primative humans and arrogent imperialists and all your going to see is a cesspool. The Legion is a mash-up of all the evils man is capable of rolled into one by a petulent fool with a god-complex, it's an ego-trip, one mans wet-dream turned reality and is doomed to crumble without him due to how he designed it. Romans would see the Legion as savage pretenders, everyone in the wastes that isn't hopped up on drugs or blinded by anger or too primative to know better sees them as barbaric raiders, everyone in human history would despise them, the only ones who fully support the Legion are born into it or were brainwashed into doing so.

Caesar is an arrogent dike and doesn't give a damn about anyone but himself. Any sane person would sooner trust Hitler or Stalin to lead them then Caesar.

There's so much wrong in this post I don't know where to begin, so I'll just leave it at this:

People really don't understand the whole concept of real life not being comparable to the Fallout universe. It just does not work that way.

And I don't want this to turn into another NCR vs Legion thread.

LEGION THREAD ALERT

She's gonna blow!

*runs in slow motion to Forum Index*

Yet again you leave with little debate, honestly walk the walk if your going to talk the talk. Defend your precious Legion. You may as well being saying "Your right, but I will not admit it to save face", that makes you come off as a condescending [censored]. Back on topic...

All the other factions, not just the NCR, hate the Legion for the reasons many have posted, slavery, sixism, leadership in the hands of an egomaniac, bigotry, etc. The Legion was supposed to be the faction that had a survival at all costs mentality, but it doesn't, they will crumble from in-fighting when the bald bastard is gone. Caesar made a society to compliment his ego and probably compansate for something I cannot type in but must be rather small, Ashur and the Pitt was far better for the survival at all costs faction. The Legion is basicly a generic bad guy group with few redeeming qualities. Even without applying real-life comparisions the Legion is evil, everyone else would be doing great without them, they are cancer in the Mojave, they hold us back, they are little better than the anarchy ending.

Why must so many Legion supporters shut off their brains like Legion recruits do?

Yet again you leave with little debate, honestly walk the walk if your going to talk the talk. Defend your precious Legion. You may as well being saying "Your right, but I will not admit it to save face", that makes you come off as a condescending [censored]. Back on topic...

All the other factions, not just the NCR, hate the Legion for the reasons many have posted, slavery, sixism, leadership in the hands of an egomaniac, bigotry, etc.

NCR is hated too, you know! Last time I checked, House,Bos,Followers,Khans,some Remnants,Powder Gangers and the Kings all dislike NCR.

Yet again you leave with little debate, honestly walk the walk if your going to talk the talk. Defend your precious Legion. You may as well being saying "Your right, but I will not admit it to save face", that makes you come off as a condescending [censored]. Back on topic...

Why must so many Legion supporters shut off their brains like Legion recruits do?

No man I totally agree with you; the NCR is the bee's knees. As a matter of fact I think we should just totally leave the Legion out of this.

wow, you kidding?

Seriously, you're being combative and antagonistic. It's unfortunate no Moderators happen to be listening in...

It should be worth noting that....

Let's say you make the most loyal NCR character possible. You follow all your orders, you never do anything to gain NCR infamy and you take every opportunity possible to gain NCR fame. If you follow this route:

-The BoS must be destroyed.
-The Followers can't be asked to support the NCR.
-The Khans can only be allied under very special circumstances, and technically Colonel Moore tells you she just wants them gone, so it's highly unlikely the Khans live.
-The people of Vault 34 will die
-Westside will suffer
-Only the Boomers and the Kings will be allied
-If you take initiative in Jacobstown and do the soldiers work for them (the soldiers are working for NCR senators, after all), the Enclave cannot be allied
-Enclave is hunted by NCR to begin with.


In short, part of what makes the NCR so "good" is actually the Courier. Yes, the NCR is good for being willing to negotiate, but my point is that they themselves are not the ones that take the initiative to start negotiations: it's the Courier. A 100% completely loyal NCR playthrough actually sees just as many people suffer as one would see when following Caesar or House, maybe even more. (Caesar will let Followers leave peacefully and the Khans are likely integrated rather than killed, Mr. House only has a problem with the BoS and possibly Freeside, no one else)
Feel free to give them credit for being more open-minded than the other factions, but peaceful by nature, they are not. They're there strictly because it profits them.

See this is a great example of an NCR vs Legion argument falling flat on its face. If you look at these things with a modern day perspective, you're bound to be biased no matter what.

NCR- values of democracy

and the rule of law.

President Tandi in power for 52 years



rampant corruption

wat?

Keep looking for the perfect system, and you ll be looking until the day you die.

Well I m just going by the intro of the game. I assume the women was voted in, or the intro would be telling a lie.


The choice it clear. You have NCR, or slavery, and being used as canon fodder in Caesers Legion. I m sure you ll take cl IRL right?

Making real life comparisons is such a idiotic cop-out just so you can give your own arguments more credibility.

I run my first playthrough as me with +10 balls. The choices I make are the choices I would make if I was there, if that was my world.