-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: mTES4 Manager
Author: Gaticus Archimedes Windrider
Stable Version: http://gaticus.iwireweb.com/download/mTES4%20v0.5.1b%20r76.zip
Latest Version: http://gaticus.iwireweb.com/download/mTES4%20v0.6.1b%20r93.zip
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Not just) Oblivion has multiplied!
mTES4 Manager lets you create complete copies of your game and helps you to manage them.

Supported Games:
- Oblivion
- Fallout3
- *NEW* Fallout:New Vegas
Support for Morrowind coming soon.

If you are a modder, this means you can have a completely separate copy of the game just for development and easily switch between your play and mod copies.
If you are not a modder, you can have a separate copy of the game just for trying new mods, tools and total conversions!

Making a mod and you need to test against multiple versions of the game or another mod? No problem.
Playing FCOM and you want to try out TIE by itself but you don't want to lose your game? No sweat.
Want to play Nehrim, but also want to keep your current Oblivion game? Couldn't be easier.

Never again do you need to reinstall your whole game because you tried to add something that just didn't work out as you planned.

For help getting started, read...
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1119357-wipz-mtes4-manager/page__view__findpost__p__16482200.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overview:

Please note that this documentation generally refers to Oblivion, but it is the same for all of the supported games unless stated otherwise.
Just replace references to 'Oblivion' with 'Fallout3' or 'FalloutNV'.

mTES4 Manager is a tool that helps you to create and manage multiple copies of Oblivion.
Essentially, it takes care of swapping the game, profile and appdata folders for you so that every
instance of Oblivion you have installed will have it's own unique working environment.

You can import existing game folders as new clones, copy clones, rename or delete and of course switch between them.

*NEW* mTES4 now supports Fallout:New Vegas in addition to Oblivion and Fallout3!
It will automatically detect if you have any of the supported games installed and provide you the option to switch between managing
each of them from the GUI.

Nehrim will also work, but it is not considered a supported game, it is considered a copy of oblivion.
So you can just import your Nehrim copy to your Oblivion clones in mTES4 and it will be treated the same as any other.
*NEW* You can now import clones from any folder or drive! You do not have to move your Nehrim folder any more.
(You will need to move your Nehrim folder from Bethesda Softwork\SureAI\Nehrim\ to Bethesda Softworks\Nehrim to be able to import it.)

mTES4 also supports Wrye Bash.
If you have Bash installed in the clone you are copying from, each time you create a clone, mTES4 will ask you to select the BAIN mods folder
that will be used for the new clone. You can choose to use the same BAIN Mods folder for every clone, or you can have a
separate folder for each. It's up to you. There is currently some issues with Wrye bash if you try to use the same Oblivion Mods folder for multiple clones.
For now, it's strongly advised to use a separate Oblivion Mods folder for each clone.

Most all other 3rd party tools should work without issues.
If you find a tool that you do have problems using in conjunction with installation swapping, please report it and I'll do
my best to ensure that it is addressed.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Installing:

There is no formal installation required. Just unzip and run mTES4.exe

When you first run mTES4, it will automatically detect your installed game and tag it with a unique name (that you provide).
Once your game has been tagged, mTES4 will recognize it as a valid copy of Oblivion (what mTES4 refers to as a 'clone').

If you have multiple copies of Oblivion already, you can import them so that mTES4 will detect them.
You can also create new clones by copying an existing clone.

Once you have setup your clones, you can use mTES4 to switch between them at the click of a button.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Uninstalling:

Just delete the mTES4 folder.

mTES4 also creates two special folders, which contain the savegames and game settings for all the clones.
You can delete them as well if you don't want to save them.

(The following paths are defaults for Windows XP)
mTES4's clone profile folder is at C:\Documents and Settings\USER\My Documents\My Games\Oblivion-mTES4
mTES4's clone appdata folder is at C:\Documents and Settings\USER\Local Settings\Application Data\Oblivion-mTES4


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Usage:

Importing a New Clone:
If you have an existing copy of Oblivion installed that has not been configured for mTES4 already, you can import it so that it will be detected.
When you import a new clone, mTES4 will automatically create a separate profile and appdata folder for it (see the sections below about Oblivion and mTES4 Folders).
The profile and appdata folders will be empty so if you have existing savegames, an oblivion.ini, bash settings, etc
and/or plugins lists for your existing copy, you will want to manually copy or move those files into the appropriate folders.
Otherwise, Oblivion will automatically create what it needs.

Copying Clones:
If you have already setup a clone for mTES4, you can copy it to create a new clone.
The profile and appdata folders will be copied for you as well so both clones will be identical copies.

Renaming a Clone:
Because the oblivion game is spread over multiple places, mTES4 provides a way for you to rename a clone if you wish.
All relevant file and folder names will be updated for you.

Deleting a Clone:
Like renaming, if you wish to delete a clone, mTES4 provides a way for you to do so.
All relevant files and folders will be deleted if you choose.

Switching Between Clones:
When you wish to change to a different copy of Oblivion, you can simply select it from the Detected Clones List then click the Switch button.
mTES4 takes care of the rest.

Minimize To System Tray:
Enabling this option will hide mTES4 so you will not see it on your taskbar.
Instead the mTES4 icon will appear in your system tray.
When mTES4 is minimized to the tray, you can point your mouse at the icon for a description of the active game and clone.
You can also right-click the icon for a menu that will allow you to switch games and clones even more conveniently!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mTES4 AutoLaunch:

When you switch to a new clone, if an autolaunch setting is defined, mTES4 will ask you if you want to launch the configured tool.
You can define autolaunch settings for each clone.

To configure the autolaunch settings, select the clone you want and click the Settings button.
You can specify the Title that will be displayed, the path to execute and any arguments that might be needed.
If you enable Always Launch, the AutoLaunch tool will be executed immediately after switching without asking you.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Launch Tools:

When you click the launch button, you will be presented with a list of tools to execute that you can choose from.
Double-click any tool, mTES4 will be minimized and the selected tool will be launched.

By default, mTES4 will try to detect some of the most common tools and offer them to you.
You can however customize the launch tools to your preference, either adding, removing, or reordering them.

OBSE and FOSE are special cases and cannot be customized.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Customizing the Launch Tools:

There are a few slightly different ways you can add new tools so they will be presented to you in the Launch dialog.
1. Common tools can be defined that will be available with any game and with any clone selected.
2. Game tools can be defined that will be available with only a specific game, but with any clone selected
3. Clone tools can be defined that will only be available for a specific clone.

Each tool has it's own section in the ini file.
The name of the section depends on how you want the tool to be available.

In the clone tag file, you can only define one type of tool.
The tools defined in a clone's tag file will only be available when that clone is active.
Every custom tool in the tag file will have the section name of [Custom Tool].
You can define multiple custom tools by having multiple [Custom Tool] sections with different settings.

In the mTES4.ini file, you can define two other types of tools.
The tools defined in the mTES4.ini file will either be available to all clones for a specific game, or all clones for all games.

To define a tool for a specific game, the tools section name will be [%GAME NAME% Tool].
EG. A tool that is only available when Oblivion is active will be in a section named [Oblivion Tool].

In mTES4.ini, the [Custom Tool] section is used to define a tool that is always available,
regardless of what game or clone is active.


The settings for any custom tool are:
sFilePath ; Required, The path to the executable. This can be relative to the game folder or it can be a full path.
sArguments ; Optional, If any extra arguments are needed, you can define them here.
sIconPath ; Optional, The path to the icon that should be displayed in the launch dialog for this tool.
sTitle ; Optional, The name of the tool displayed in the launch dialog.

If sFilePath or sIconPath is relative, it should not begin with a \
If no icon is configured, mTES4 will try to extract the icon from sFilePath.
If no title is defined, mTES4 will use the file name.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mTES4 Folders:
(NOTE: the paths used for Oblivion, Fallout3 and Fallout:New Vegas are nearly identical. Just replace all references to Oblivion with Fallout3 or FalloutNV)

As you may or may not already know, Oblivion has files in 3 different places that mTES4 keeps track of for you.
1. The game folder
This is the folder where your game is installed (contains Oblivion.exe)
By default, on winXP this folder is "C:\Program Files\Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion"

2. The profile folder
This is the folder where your savegames and oblivion.ini are.
By default, on winXP this folder is "C:\Documents and Settings\USER\My Documents\My Games\Oblivion"

3. The appdata folder
This is the folder where oblivion keeps the list of plugins that are installed.
By default, on winXP this is "C:\Documents and Settings\USER\Local Settings\Application Data\Oblivion"

mTES4 creates two additional folders to store the profiles and appdata for your clones.
4. The clone profile folder
This is the folder where mTES4 will store the profile folders for your inactive clones.
When you switch clones, mTES4 will swap your active profile folder with the appropriate folder stored in the clone profile folder
By default, on winXP this folder is "C:\Documents and Settings\USER\My Documents\My Games\Oblivion-mTES4"
Eg. Assuming your active copy is named Oblivion1 and you have a 2nd clone named Oblivion2
The profile folder for Oblivion1 will be "...\My Games\Oblivion" (it uses the real oblivion folder)
Because Oblivion2 is an inactive clone, the profile folder will be "...\My Games\Oblivion-mTES4\Oblivion2" (it is stored in the mTES4 folder using its actual clone name)

5. The clone appdata folder
This is the folder where mTES4 will store the appdata folders for your inactive clones.
When you switch clones, mTES4 will swap your active appdata folder with the appropriate folder stored in the clone appdata folder.
By default, on winXP this is "C:\Documents and Settings\USER\Local Settings\Application Data\Oblivion-mTES4"
See the example for The clone profile folder. The clone appdata folder works similarly.

For instance, if your windows XP login name is Joe and you have both Oblivion and Fallout3 installed in their default locations, you will have ALL of these folders:

C:\Program Files\Bethesda Softworks\Fallout3
C:\Program Files\Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion

C:\Documents and Settings\Joe\My Documents\My Games\Fallout3
C:\Documents and Settings\Joe\My Documents\My Games\Oblivion

C:\Documents and Settings\Joe\Local Settings\Application Data\Fallout3
C:\Documents and Settings\Joe\Local Settings\Application Data\Oblivion

mTES4 adds the following folders:

C:\Documents and Settings\Joe\My Documents\My Games\Fallout3-mTES4
C:\Documents and Settings\Joe\My Documents\My Games\Oblivion-mTES4

C:\Documents and Settings\Joe\Local Settings\Application Data\Fallout3-mTES4
C:\Documents and Settings\Joe\Local Settings\Application Data\Oblivion-mTES4


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Appendix:

Clones:
A clone is what mTES4 calls any copy of your game that has been tagged as a valid copy of Oblivion.

Tags:
A tag is a specially name ini file that is placed inside the game folder of each clone.
A tag file looks like this: "_mTES4 (NAME OF CLONE).ini"
Part of the purpose of these tags is simply so that you can easily see which copy you have currently active from windows explorer without having to run mTES4.
The tags are also used to determine which folders to display in the mTES4 Detected Clones List.
You can also define custom tools for mTES4 launch dialog which will only be displayed for this clone.

mTES4.ini:
This file is used to keep track of which game and clone you have selected.
You can find the mTES4.ini file in the same folder as mTES4.exe.
You can also define custom tools for mTES4 launch dialog that will be displayed for all games and clones or just for the clones of a specific game.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Planned Features:
- [v0.1] Clone new copies of Oblivion
- [v0.1] Switch between clone copies of Oblivion
- [v0.2] Import existing game copies
- [v0.2] Rename clones
- [v0.2] Delete clones
- [v0.2] Nehrim Support
- [v0.3] Fallout3 Support
- [v0.4] Remove requirement for mTES4.exe to be in any particular folder
- [v0.4] Improve Delete functionality to provide checkbox options for game, profile/appdata and/or just tag
- [v0.4] Support for Wrye Flash
- [v0.5] 3rd party app launch buttons
- [v0.5] Per-clone auto launch options
- [v0.5] Option to minimize to system tray
- [v0.5] System tray r-click menu
- [v0.6] *NEW* Support for Fallout:New Vegas
- [v0.6] *NEW* Allow users to import profile and appdata folders as well as game folders
- [v0.6] *NEW* Import from alternate locations
- [v0.X] Support for Morrowind

Considerations:
- Function to open folder(s) for the selected clone
- Complete functionality from system tray context menu
- Customize tools from the GUI
- Make windows resizable
- Optimize storage of inactive clones

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Known Bugs/Workarounds:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Credits:
Psymon: For feedback and assistance, bug reports and specifics for nehrim and fallout3 support


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Change Log:

----------------------------------------
Version 0.6.0b
- added: Support for Fallout:New Vegas
- added: ability to import clones from alternate locations
- added: ability to copy profile and appdata folders when cloning or importing
- bug fix: tray icon hint text updates incorrectly if switching clones fails
- bug fix: Launch dialog does not remember the list view preference after closing
- bug fix: incorrect hint text for Launch button
- bug fix: incorrect (obsolete) hint text for Detected Clones list
- bug fix: missing hint text for Settings button
- bug fix: missing hint text for Minimize to System Tray option
- bug fix: missing hint text for Launch dialog
- bug fix: missing hint text for Settings dialog

----------------------------------------
Version 0.5.1b
- bug fix for importing, copying or renaming clones fails in v0.5b

----------------------------------------
Version 0.5.0b
- New minimize to tray option. Hovering over the tray icon will show the currently active game and clone.
- New r-click menu for the tray icon allows you to conveniently switch games or clones.
- New custom autolaunch tools settings for each clone.
- New Launch Tools dialog. Allows you to choose what tool you want to launch.
- New Custom Tool settings can be configured in mTES4.ini and the _mTES4 (*).ini tag files.
- bug fix for possible duplicate named clones if you have more than one supported game installed.
Affected Import, Copy and Rename features

----------------------------------------
Version 0.4.0a
- Support for Wrye Flash
- Added ability to use existing profile and appdata folders when importing.
- New Delete Clone dialog, provides options to keep or delete various clone files and folders.
- Removed requirement for mTES4.exe to be in any particular folder
- 'New Clone' button renamed to 'Copy Clone' to better reflect it's functionality.
- bug fix for attempting to rename the active clone crashes mTES4.
- bug fix for incorrectly assuming that if Bash is installed then bash.ini must exist.
Will now create a new bash.ini from the bash_default.ini if it needs to.
- bug fix for incorrectly parsing bash.ini
- bug fix for no warning when importing or copying a clone, bash is detected but you cancel the BAIN folder selection.
- bug fix for falsely detecting supported games when only placeholder registry keys exist

----------------------------------------
Version 0.3.3a
- reverted fix for querying fallout reg key.
- bug fix for potentially creating two clones with identical names.
- improved the behaviour of popup msgboxes.

----------------------------------------
Version 0.3.2a
- bug fix for mTES4 querying the wrong registry key path on x64 systems.
- bug fix for querying fallout reg key using "Fallout3" instead of "Fallout 3".

----------------------------------------
Version 0.3.1a
- bug fix for mTES4 not running on Vista and Windows 7.

----------------------------------------
Version 0.3.0a
Should be backward compatible with v0.2
- Integrated support for Fallout3.
- New ini and tag settings to track supported Bethesda games.
- Various minor cosmetic and non-critical bug fixes.

----------------------------------------
Version 0.2.0a
NOTE: v0.2 is NOT backward compatible with v0.1!
- Eliminated the use of the MasterCopy clone. mTES4 is much simpler to use now.
- Added ability to copy from any existing clone.
- Added Import Clone feature.
- Added Rename Clone feature.
- Added Delete Clone feature.
- Moved inactive clone profiles and appdata into mTES4 folders so they don't clutter My Games\ and Application Data\

----------------------------------------
Version 0.1.0a
- Initial alpha release.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Terms of Use:

mTES4 is Public Domain. Feel free to do whatever you like with it. All I ask for is credit for my work.
Copyleft VB Source code is also available to any who asks.

Interesting timing.

I am sure a lot of people would be interested to make this work with Nehrim too... I don't have it yet, but there is interest...

There should be no problem using mTES4 with Nehrim.

With very minor changes, I believe mTES4 will work with Fallout 3 also.
But that's for another time

This tool of yours could be very handy for any modder or a betatester, while they do a little mod testing of their new modding project.

I hope so. It could also be handy for mod players who want to try new mods without affecting their current game.

Currently, I have 3 Clones myself. Besides the MasterCopy.
(I prefixed all my clones with TES4 so they sort better in windows explorer, but you can name your clones anything you like)

TES4-Live, TES4-Vanilla, TES4-CS

Live is a full FCOM setup (that I'm currently playing)
Vanilla is a clean copy of vanilla-oblivion, for testing mods in a sane game.
CS is my modders copy which i use for working on my mods


That reminds me. I forgot to mention about diskspace requirements in the OP.
Since every clone is a complete copy of the game, you will need a fairly considerable amount of diskspace.
At the very least, you will have the master copy and the active copy. For mTES4 to be useful, you will also have at least 1 more clone.
That is a minimum of 3 full copies of Oblivion, roughly 15GB.

Oh I have high hopes for this.

Concerning Nhrim can you say more about how this would manage that since nehrim (without INIzer and such) attempts to use the same app data, save game file, and ini as Oblivion.

Maybe a screenshot.

Not that I'm patient enough to wait - will look at this tonight.

If you mean using a single copy of oblivion as a sort of 'dual boot'. Then no.

What you would do is have a separate clone for Nehrim.
So (if I understand correctly how Nehrim works) the data folder in your Nehrim clone will be unused.

Every clone will have it's own savegames, oblivion.ini, plugins lists and game folder.

No I meant nothing related to booting.

This is going to clone my install? Not offer the option to add another install? My install is 34 gigs for Oblivion alone. Not that big of an issue but then my BAIN folder is much larger (maybe twice as large).

Nehrim already creates its own directory as well so why the need for full cloning?

Hehe. I didn't actually mean dual boot. it was a comparison.

mTES4 was not designed for Nehrim. It is more general purpose.
So yes you would need to make a whole new clone.
If I understand, Nehrim doesn't really use the data folder, so in your Nehrim clone, you could remove everything that is not essential to free up space.

Yes, mTES4 will clone your oblivion install folder to make the master copy.
You should not make the master copy from a modded install.

Backup your game first. I meant to say rename your install copy so that it is not active. You do not need to make a copy.
Then reinstall or alternatively, if you already have a clean backup on the HDD you can rename it to be the install copy.
Then let mTES4 make the mastercopy.
Then you can rename your real game back to the Oblivion game folder.
Run mTES4 again and it will tag your modded copy as a clone.

Edit:
I will probably add an option to backup the current copy of oblivion and let the user install a new one to be used as the master copy.
For now, you must do it manually.

Regarding BAIN folders. mTES4 doesn't touch them. They are never cloned or switched.
The BAIN folder that each clone uses is configured in it's own bash.ini.

Yeah I do have a a copy of Oblivion GOTY backed up. Thinking of adding a few tweaks - such as LAA on the exe and the PYFFI'd meshes BSA to it. Then after making it master run the game and do basic ini configurations that I always do in case I want further clones - will it make the clone for me? HDD is 1.5 TB with half already gone with games.

Do I need to rename the saves folder under my user name on C? Or any other recommendations for that?

Regarding Nehrim - kind of a bummer this is not handled - one of the main reasons for having something like this in my eyes. Can you look at that more?

Then also Pacific Morrowind announced possible Nehrim compatibility comming for Wrye Bash, so I'm curious what that will be and don't want to mess anything up with what sounds like drastic steps this offers. Like what about uninstalling this?

Getting cold feet on this - why do I always gotta be the first one?

If you have a clean backup on HDD, I don't think it's actually even necessary to rename your install copy.
Just rename or copy your backup to mTES4-MasterCopy, then mTES4 should not attempt to create one.
You don't have to worry about the savegame and appdata folders as they are not used by the master copy.

If you want to preconfigure anything for your master copy, you should do that in your clean install (while it is the active install copy), before the master is created.
IE. install Bash, OBMM, OBSE, etc, tweak your ini

Once you create the master copy, you cannot switch to it. This is just a preventive measure to avoid that copy from getting contaminated.
You can however add/remove modify any files in the master copy, like if you want to customize your oblivion_default.ini.
mTES4 does not actually clone the savegame profile or appdata folders either btw (maybe it will, but for now it does not), so mastercopy customizations to the ini should be done in the oblivion_default.ini instead of in oblivion.ini

For uninstalling, you just delete the mTES4.exe and ini files.
Everything else is your clones + the master copy, so you should remove those manually.

Psymon,
As you are likely the first one installing mTES4, the setup instructions are still very rough and I'm still fleshing out the best practices, I'm certainly happy to help you sort it all out.
The complications here is that mTES4 wants to establish a clean copy that it can then create clones from.
I'm certainly going to have to refine this process, your questions have already helped me find a few things I will need to address. Thx


Also, if you can explain more what the Nehrim issue is, it would be helpful.
Save downloading and installing it myself, I understand that it uses it's own Oblivion\Nehrim folder instead of Oblivion\Data.
Is this right? Is it safe for you to just delete/rename the data folder and Nehrim will still run?

Are you saying that you have oblivion installed and modded and you have Nehrim installed in the same folder, and you want to be able to be able to switch between the two?

Yeah I'm a bit scurred and may not be the first. Well once Wrye Bash gets an update - have word it will be multiple install friendly.

About Nehrim:

No it does not install into a directory under Oblivion, but you can make it do that. The advice is to install it outside the Oblivion directory. So my games folder on this drive looks like this:
So Nehrim is in its own directory. It therefore does not share one thing about the Oblivion folder extracting from Oblivion the folder all it needs to create its own directory root folder. It does, however, share the save game folder and app data folder - which is why I said it only came part way in being a separate game. And the need for the INIzer.

Thinking on ... will this at all look at the save game folder or attempt to back it up or the App data folder?

thanks

[edit bad spelling]

I do hope bash will support multiple installs. That would be much more convenient and the issues with multiple installs could be addressed better.

Ok, I think I see what you mean about Nehrim then. Really all you need in that case is for there to be separate profile and appdata folders, and don't do anything with the game folder. Sound right?
mTES4 will not work for Nehrim right now if this is the case.
I'll have to think on the best way to handle that..

Maybe just a simple button to toggle from oblivion to nehrim.
To be honest, if that is all you need, mTES4 is overkill and I might consider making a separate, much simpler tool for that.

If you want to have multiple copies of Oblivion though, then mTES4 should be useful.

edit:
It will switch the savegame and appdata folders, but it does not clone them. Each new clone has a fresh new savegame and appdata folder.

I wouldn't mind being able to have separate installs and I imagine that every serious mod tester and heck even many mod makers would appreciate that as well.

I'd like to be able to have a radically different mod set up and a vanilla one I can switch to with ease ... and Nehrim.

As for Nehrim the issue has remained that since it accesses the save game folder, ini, and app data folder (plugins) then what happens is that opening wrye bash or the regular OBMM causes swathes of mods in either game to be disabled.

Wrye bash can well enough handle save game profile swapping and even ini swapping - but those are steps to be taken. It does not access the app data folder and this is where the INIzer comes in handy.

So it switches the save game folder but not the entire Oblivion folder usually found under Documents\My Games\Oblivion? Does that mean that it will not swap ini files between games?

I just thought of a way that you can use mTES4 to switch Nehrim for the interim, until I can incorperate a solution into the util.
You can create a dummy clone...

Let's start over..
Steps to get Nehrim working with mTES4

1. For the purposes of testing, you can just create a new folder and name it to mTES4-MasterCopy.
This will let you get passed the mTES4 setup so you can test being able to switching Oblivion<->Nehrim without supporting additional clones.
You can update your master copy afterwards, when you are ready to create actual clones.

2. Create a new txt file in the master copy folder and name it "_mTES4 (mTES4-MasterCopy).ini"

3. Run mTES4, it should tell you that your installed copy of oblivion is not tagged. Choose a unique name for that copy. Like TES4-Live

4. After it has tagged your install copy, you should be presented with a small window that has a listbox and a few buttons.
The detected clones list will contain mTES4-MasterCopy in italics and your install copy (whatever you named it) in bold.

5. Select the master copy from the list and click the clone button. Name it "NehrimClone" or whatever you want.

6. If you have Nehrim specific saves and an ini already, you can copy/move those into ....\My Games\NehrimClone

7. If you have Nehrim specific plugin lists already, you can copy/move those into ...\Application Data\NehrimClone

8. If all goes well, you should be able to run mTES4 now, and your NehrimClone will be listed.
Select it and click Switch.


Hopefully I didn't miss anything.
As you can see from the instructions I've listed, there is little risk to cause any problems you can't easily undo.
Since this is also a more manual approach, it gives you a better insight to how mTES4 operates, so hopefully you can be a bit more comfortable about trying
If it works as I expect, then the Nehrim issue is just a matter of providing an option to create a dummy clone.

It does switch the My Games\Oblivion folder.

Since this file is an exe where do you recommend installing it to? My game drive has a programs files (x86) - would that be good or do you recommend at the level of where I have the bethesda games (which is not in the Program Files (x86) folder)?

Wow so my drive with the games only has 186 gigs - hmmm - gonna have to house clean.

Again where do you recommend I create this master copy? The back up is on yet another drive (I have about 5 drives actually) ... I was thinking move it to the same game directory that contains the Bethesda games - does that sound right?

Well hopefully that part goes well.

I think so, but only for the Documents\My Games\Oblivion folder - it wouldn't need to have access to the data folder. Which leads me to wonder if for that clone I could remove BSA files and other components from that Oblivion/data folder to save space?

And all I can say is best of luck with requests for Steam and D2D versions.

Sorry, I thought I had mentioned it already.
mTES4.exe must be in your bethesda folder, as you suggested.



All the clones must be in the bethesda folder. Yes, right.


Just make sure you name the master folder and the tag file exactly as shown. Or the master will not be detected.
mTES4 will not make any changes on your system without your consent. So even if something goes awry and it still wants to create a master copy, it will ask you first.



If you follow my instructions correctly and just use an empty folder as your master copy, there will be no files in the dummy clone, except the tag file.
When I incorperate support for Nehrim, it will probably work similarly, but the dummy clone won't be required.



I hadn't thought of it. Hopefully it's a non-issue. :S

I don't have a Bethesda folder as in one that would install with a default location - I use Vista so I have to have the game installed in a non default location. I made a folder on a separate drive called games which is where I keep F3, Morrowind, Oblivion, and now Nehrim.

Will this work with non-default location installs?


Huh? I guess I missed something.

To be clear Nehrim does not have a folder separate from the the Oblivion folder found at Documents\My Games\Oblivion - there is no Documents\My Games\Nehrim. It uses the Oblivion folder to access ini and save games.

Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions - becoming clearer.

I still may give another day for Wrye Bash to update and see what that entails.

[edit] then thinking that if Wrye Bash and this are stable - the odd program out is tes4edit. Was wondering if the whole reason that they made Nehrim make a new directory was to not mess with the normal install folder of Oblivion, but with this one could rename their Nehrim folder to another Oblivion clone and if that is done then when active and edit is installed it may work without having to change directories with gecko as described here in the first post of the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1118767-nehrim-and-mods/page__view__findpost__p__16442608.

Yes, I'm not sure how else to refer to it gracefully, lol. The parent folder of your Oblivion install path.
EG. (I've elaborated the example so you can see how the other mTES4 folders and files are related as well)
C:\Games\Oblivion\Oblivion.exe
C:\Games\Oblivion\_mTES4 (MyModdedClone).ini (You will name this tag via mTES4)
C:\Games\mTES4.exe
C:\Games\mTES4-MasterCopy\
C:\Games\mTES4-MasterCopy\_mTES4 (mTES4-MasterCopy).ini
C:\Games\Nehrim\
C:\Games\NehrimClone\
C:\Games\NehrimClone\_mTES4 (NehrimClone).ini
etc



Yes I understand. When you create the 'NehrimClone' the appropriate folders will be created for you. Then you will have separate folders for Oblivion and Nehrim.



Thnx for taking the time to ask B)

Bash will be updated with support for multiple installs that soon? I'll have to keep an eye out.

Yes, I'm pretty sure you are correct.
Now that i think of it, my instructions could be revised to eliminate the dummy clone, although you will still need to create it.

With these revised instructions, your Nehrim game should be it's own valid Oblivion clone as you described above.
Switching to Nehrim should allow TES4Edit to work with it.. and TESCS etc

Revised steps to get Nehrim working with mTES4

1. Rename your Nehrim folder to Nehrim-Backup

2. For the purposes of testing, you can just create a new folder and name it to mTES4-MasterCopy.
This will let you get passed the mTES4 setup so you can test being able to switching Oblivion<->Nehrim without supporting additional clones.
You can update your master copy afterwards, when you are ready to create actual clones.

3. Create a new txt file in the master copy folder and name it "_mTES4 (mTES4-MasterCopy).ini"

4. Run mTES4, it should tell you that your installed copy of oblivion is not tagged. Choose a unique name for that copy. Like TES4-Live

5. After it has tagged your install copy, you should be presented with a small window that has a listbox and a few buttons.
The detected clones list will contain mTES4-MasterCopy in italics and your install copy (whatever you named it) in bold.

6. Select the master copy from the list and click the clone button. Name it "Nehrim", then close mTES4

7. Move "Nehrim\_mTES4 (Nehrim).ini" to "Nehrim-Backup\_mTES4 (Nehrim).ini"
8. Delete the new Nehrim clone folder.
9. Rename "Nehrim-Backup" back to "Nehrim"

10. If you have Nehrim specific saves and an ini already, you can copy/move those into ....\My Games\Nehrim
11. If you have Nehrim specific plugin lists already, you can copy/move those into ...\Application Data\Nehrim

12. If all goes well, you should be able to run mTES4 and Nehrim will be listed. Select it and click Switch.
Your Oblivion folder will be renamed to it's clone name and Nehrim will be renamed to Oblivion.
Same for the My Games\Oblivion and Application Data\Oblivion

hmm what about using HardLinks to copy at least some of the data? - hopefully user settable as whole folder they are cloning, biggest vanilla OB files or none per clone?
Looks like a potentially useful thing... though I probably won't use it since I already have 3 installations active (vanilla, testing, playing) which work fine with a bit of profiling of the saves (or using bUseMyGamesDirectory = 0 in the ini) for everything except Tes4Edit which'l only use the one installation.
Pacific Morrowind

Excellent advice. I had something much more elaborate planned! To import/delete the vanilla files when a clone is activated/deactivated.
I didn't even know I could make hardlinks in windows. Thanks

A potential problem with hardlinks though is for users to understand (if I understand correctly) and remember that any changes to clone A or B will affect both.
I could mark any hardlinks as readonly though.

Edit:
I was investigating this a bit more and I'm thinking that hardlinks might actually cause problems if it's used too freely.
I'm not sure what files I could guarantee will never be changed and preventing the user from modifying any of the vanilla files could be pretty unfriendly.
It may be adequate for the vanilla BSA's as they generally shouldn't be modified.
Just hardlinking the BSAs would probably be enough spacesaving anyhow. The loose vanilla files take up little space.

hmm, I can't find any mention of Bash being updated to support multiple installs.
Can anyone enlighten me?