So much fun : IV

» Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:37 am

Okay so I've been having so much fun getting oblivion back up and running again after a couple years.. all the new mods are great. The Community really keeps this game alive. Big Thanks to all of you.

Anyways on to my random problem. I have a I7 920 at 3.99, 6 gigs of ram, and a GTX285 2gb, pretty sure it's enough to handle oblivion with fcom and such, ya know a decently modded game. All the graphics sliders are full and I get 60 FPS most the time. however in some of the "Better Cities" cities I get major slow down, and I've nailed it down to the item, and world slider or objects not sure whichever one is linked with items. The lower I put those 2 sliders the more FPS I seem to get all the way back up to 60.

With the Slider set to 100 on both I drop down to 7 fps. Now, if I look at the same spot don't move my mouse at all and turn the sliders down to about 30ish. I go right back up to 60 FPS. I guess my question is; is why objects and items or whatever they are called casue so much FPS loss. Everything I've read says the AI is the problem but I can have actor fade at above normal without any slowdown. But once I put objects up everything goes to a crawl.

I am using bash and bain. I've double checked all the files. I PYFFI'ed everything I could including meshes folder, and I did the default BSA to but it crashed on load not sure why, any help there would be great too. but I'm more worried about the objects problem.

Anyways, here's my load order if that helps anyone. Although I really don't think that's the problem I use BOSS and I've been playing modded oblivion since it came out, so I'm familiar with all the tools.

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  Silgrad_Tower_T.esm02  Windfall.esm03  Jog_X_Mod.esm04  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 0.9.9.5]05  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm06  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm07  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]08  Harvest[Containers].esm09  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]0A  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]0B  VASE - core.esm0C  CyrodiilUpgradeResourcePack.esm0D  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.39c]0E  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]0F  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]10  Artifacts.esm11  Kvatch Rebuilt.esm12  Better Cities Resources.esm13  BetterMusicSystem.esm14  CURP_Controller.esm15  Progress.esm  [Version 2.2]16  HorseCombatMaster.esm17  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.7]18  DLCShiveringIsles.esp19  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]1A  SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp  [Version 1.30]1B  Better Cities .esp1C  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp1D  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp1E  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1F  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]20  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 0.9.9.5]21  All Natural.esp  [Version 0.9.9.5]22  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 0.9.9.5]++  phinix-waterfix.esp23  Book Jackets Oblivion.esp24  ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp25  Days&Months.esp26  Display Stats.esp  [Version 1.2]27  diversegrasses.esp28  ImprovedSigns.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.78]29  Quest Log Manager.esp  [Version 1.2]2A  RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp  [Version 1.5]2B  Harvest[Containers].esp2C  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 4.2.1]2D  Duke Patricks - Friendship Ring For Companion Detection.esp2E  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.5.2]2F  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.5]30  DLCHorseArmor.esp31  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]++  Mart's Monster Mod - DLCHorseArmor+Slofs .esp  [Version 0.91]32  SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp  [Version 1.11]33  DLCOrrery.esp34  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]35  SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp  [Version 1.11]36  DLCVileLair.esp37  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]++  SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp  [Version 1.21]38  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp39  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]3A  SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp  [Version 1.30]3B  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]**  Book Jackets DLC.esp**  GrimbotsSpellTomes.esp3C  Thieves Arsenal.esp++  Thieves_Arsenal_Patch_033010.esp3D  Extinguish the Lights.esp++  Thieves Arsenal - Extinguish the Lights Patch.esp3E  DLCThievesDen.esp3F  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]40  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]41  SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp  [Version 1.30]42  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]43  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]44  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp45  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]46  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp47  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]48  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]++  ArmamentariumLLVendors.esp  [Version 1.35]49  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp  [Version 1.35]4A  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]++  FCOM_Cobl.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4B  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]4C  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SpawnRatesSlightlyReduced.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4D  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]4E  Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]4F  Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]50  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]51  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]52  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]++  VASE - Cyrodiil for MMM.esp++  VASE - Vanilla SI.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  TamrielTravellerAdvScript.esp  [Version 1.40Alpha]53  TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp  [Version 1.39c]54  TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp  [Version 1.39c]++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.01]++  PersuasionOverhaul_OOO.esp  [Version 1.2]++  PersuasionOverhaul_MMM.esp  [Version 1.2]++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]55  Artifacts.esp++  Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp  [Version 1.0]56  BravilSeaDomes.esp57  BrotherhoodRenewed.esp  [Version 1.0.3]58  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp59  Kvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.esp5A  Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp5B  MountainShackR12.esp5C  Malevolent.esp5D  MountainTower.esp  [Version 6.0]5E  ShadowfangKeep.esp5F  TheElderCouncil.esp60  TheElderCouncil_TempleOfTheOne.esp61  TEC_4ERA_Dialog_Filter.esp62  thievery.esp63  thievery - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]64  VaultsofCyrodiilBC.esp65  Windfall.esp66  Cyrodiil Travel Services.esp  [Version 2.0.1]67  za_bankmod.esp68  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp69  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]6A  SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp  [Version 1.30]6B  DLCFrostcrag.esp6C  FrostcragRebornCobl.esp6D  TOTF.esp6E  RTT.esp6F  The Lost Spires.esp70  Blood&Mud.esp71  Blood&Mud - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]72  Origin of the Mages Guild.esp  [Version 7.3]73  TheNecromancer.esp74  FCOM_Blood&Mud.esp  [Version 0.9.9]75  FCOM_OMG.esp  [Version 0.9.9]76  road+bridges.esp  [Version 4.5.5]77  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.4]78  LostSpires-DarkForest patch.esp79  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.2]7A  xulTheHeath.esp7B  MMMMWL-TheHeath patch.esp7C  XulEntiusGorge.esp7D  TheNecromancer-EntiusGorge patch.esp7E  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]7F  LostSpires-Everglade patch.esp  [Version 1.2]80  TheElderCouncil-FallenleafEverglade patch.esp  [Version 1.2]81  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 1.2.1]82  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.2]83  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 1.6.4]84  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.2]85  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3]86  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.2]87  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]88  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.3]89  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.3]8A  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]8B  xulRollingHills_EV.esp  [Version 1.3.2]8C  MMMMWL-RollingHills patch.esp8D  xulPantherRiver.esp8E  Blood&Mud-PantherRiver patch.esp8F  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 1.0.2]90  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.0.2]91  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.3]92  xulBlackwoodForest.esp93  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0.1]94  Blood&Mud-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp95  TearsOfTheFiend-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp96  KvatchRebuilt-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp97  xulAspenWood.esp  [Version 1.0.1]98  xulSkingradOutskirts.esp99  NRB4+UL-II Patch.esp  [Version 5.0.1]9A  bartholm.esp9B  bartholm - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]9C  Better Cities - House price patch.esp  [Version 1.0]9D  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]9E  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]9F  DropLitTorchOBSE.esp  [Version 2.4]A0  P1DkeyChain.esp  [Version 5.00]A1  PersuasionOverhaul.esp  [Version 1.43]A2  Enhanced Vegetation [125%].espA3  Silgrad_Tower_T.esp++  Skillbased Thieves Guild Invitation.espA4  Enhanced Economy - House prices.esp  [Version 1.0]A5  Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.espA6  MidasSpells.espA7  RshAlchemy.espA8  SM Combat Hide.esp  [Version 1.2]A9  StealthOverhaul.espAA  SM Security.esp  [Version 1.2]AB  RenGuardOverhaul.espAC  Enhanced Grabbing.esp  [Version 0.5]AD  Duke Patricks - Near Miss Magic And Arrows Alert The Target.espAE  Duke Patricks - Actors Can Miss Now.espAF  PTDoorExploitBegone.espB0  ProgressGSD.esp  [Version 2.0]B1  ProgressMBSP.esp  [Version 2.0]B2  ProgressSBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]B3  ProgressRBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]B4  ProgressArmorer.esp  [Version 1.0]B5  Legendary Abilities-Shield MOJ.espB6  Nanite's Legendary Alchemy.espB7  Grandmaster of Alchemy.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.78]++  Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag Reborn.esp  [Version 0.78]B8  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.52EV-D]++  TamrielTravellers Cosmetics Cobl or RBP.espB9  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]BA  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]BB  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.90]BC  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 0.86]++  SM_DLCSpellTome.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.89]++  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 0.89]++  SM_COBL.espBD  SM_EnchantStaff.esp  [Version 0.80]++  SM_UnlockSpells.esp  [Version 0.70]++  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.84]++  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 0.83]++  bgMagicEV_Conjuration_for_Supreme_Magicka.esp  [Version 1.5]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalClasses.esp  [Version 9.0EV-U]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalMoreEyes.esp  [Version 10]**  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversity, TNR Merge.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalFCOMAdditions.esp  [Version 10.]**  bgBalancingOptionalNPCDiversityKvatchRebuilt, for Wrye Bash.esp  [Version 9.0EV-D]**  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversityLAME.esp  [Version 10.5EV-D]BE  bgIntegrationEV.esp  [Version 0.993]BF  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.espC0  BCBravilB&MFULL-Barrowfields patch.espC1  Better Cities - Ruined Tail's Tale.espC2  BCChorrol-ChorrolHinterland fix.espC3  Better Cities - Tears of the Fiend.espC4  BCCheydinhalFULLB&M-CheydinhalFalls patch.espC5  BCSkingrad-SkingradOutskirts patch.espC6  Better Cities - Thievery.espC7  Better Imperial City.espC8  Better Cities - COBL.esp  [Version 2]**  bgMagicEVShader.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  Real Lava 1.3.esp**  NRB4 Standard Road Record.esp++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 0.9.9.5]C9  Bashed Patch, 0.espCA  DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.espCB  SM_DeadlyReflex.esp  [Version 0.86]CC  FormID Finder4.espCD  Streamline 3.1.esp

Again thanks to all you modders for making this game last forever, and making everything in it better. Without your dedication this game wouldn't be the same!

» Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:06 am

As far as I understand it, the distance sliders only control what is rendered on screen. Thus, only video card would be affected.

Changing the actor slider doesn't affect the cpu, because the AI is still being calculated. It's just not showing up graphically. The game is still running that actor.

gothemasticator

» Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:20 pm

As far as I understand it, the distance sliders only control what is rendered on screen. Thus, only video card would be affected.

Changing the actor slider doesn't affect the cpu, because the AI is still being calculated. It's just not showing up graphically. The game is still running that actor.

gothemasticator

Well that would explain why the actor slider doesn't effect my frames at all. But, it still doesn't explain why the objects slider is killing my fps. I've used TDT with SDT 13 to check graphics card usage and I'm using about 600 megs of VRAM, no where near the 2 gigs on the card. No AF, or AA on, and acording to GPU-Z my gpu is never reaching max load ever during oblivion. My cpu on the other hand goes to 99% on core 1 and 4 whenever I look at a certain object. I haven't narrowed it down yet though.

With the sliders all at 100% if I look at the sky or ground I go up to 60 FPS. If I look straight ahead in certain directions though, mainly at certain tree's or maybe grass, like I said before haven't narrowed the exact object down yet. I go down to 7 again. Look slighty to the left or right I go up to like 30.

If I turn the object and item sliders down to 36 percent though I never get any slow down. Everything else is the same except for those sliders. So, my guess is theres some script on some object in better cities or maybe some other mod. I dunno I'm just guessing right now really.

But yea any help here would be great guys. this is really getting frusterating.

» Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:04 am

As has been said, the sliders only push your graphics card. Better Cities is killing your computer because it has so many objects and AI that it needs to control at the same time. You could try stuff like Streamline and Oblivion Stutter Remover, and you could try optimising your meshes and repacking your BSAs, but other than that it seems your computer can't handle it.

» Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:59 am

I understand the sliders only push my graphics card. If you had read my post a lil better though you would see that my graphics card is not getting overloaded. The max load on my gpu according to a variety of monitoring programs is only 50% to 70% and no where near the max amount of VRAM. The problem is the cpu overloading from a setting you say only effects graphics card. When clearly it is not just effecting my graphics card. Since if I turn it down my cpu load also lowers and frames go back up. Also as I previously said this only seems to happen in better cities, and only when looking in certain directions. Cause I can keep all sliders full and still get 60 outside and at edges of cities. and by looking at the ground or air.

Sorry for sounding rude but I did explain it pretty well in my post. So my question now is; in the modlist I posted is there any mods anyone can see that might be adding scripts to rocks or some object that is placed alot.

Also, I'm pretty sure.. actually absolutely positive that a GTX 285 can handle any oblivion settings that only effect graphics with no sweat at any resolution. As numerous others have posted Oblivion is entirely CPU bound. As long as you have enough vram and not running OBGE with SSAO and other shaders oblivion will never max your graphics card as long as it's somewhat recent.

Anyways thanks again for reading and helping with this. Really starting to get annoyed trying to figure this out. Any people like arthmoor wanna come in and give some input?

P.S. I forgot to add if it was better cities AI that was killing my computer woudln't lowering actor distance and not lowering object distance raise frame rate. Changing the actor distance does nothing from frames in anyway or cpu load. Only objects it seems.

» Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:08 am

Your title description is not very helpful for getting attention for these issues. With BC installed, the object distance slider would have a great effect because it adds a lot of clutter to the surroundings. The clutter is processed by your GPU, but it is also partly processed by your CPU. All of these parts' processes are not completely independent. Your speculation is right, however. That result is kind of odd if the AI overload was the main problem. I was pretty sure that reducing the slider does cut down on the AI being processed. Changing that slider makes a huge difference, the slider for actor loading, in my game. I have an HD4870 with 1GB of VRAM, and I am not using its full capacity either. My bottleneck is my E8500 Core2Duo. It is in Video, however...ahh...too tired... The reason why the performance dip is greater in certain directions is because actor concentration is higher in certain directions. If you go to Cheydinhal and face the town center, the FPS (in my game) is almost cut in half compared to when you are facing the gate to leave. That is because there are few or no actors outside the door.

Edit: Plus, if the actor is not showing up graphically, it is not walking around or anything. The AI is frozen sort of, is it not? Even when the actor is on screen, if there are too many actors around and the PC is a certain distance away, the actor is frozen in place. The processing has to be reduced. Maybe, OP, for your setup, the CPU was doing lots of calculations for the clutter too...

» Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:38 am

Just a quick note, oblivion renders and processes everything in the direction you are facing, e.g. go to the Imperial Market district and face the entrance of stonewall shields. All the objects, doors, NPC's etc. behind the wall and what you can actually see are rendered and processed, not just the door and the wall. Just something to consider. Even using super-optimized files can be a heavy strain on your computer. It really comes down to quantity, not quality.

I don't use Better Cities, but from the images and what I have heard about it, it can be pretty difficult running it at a good rate when you have a lot of other things going on in the background. Just to test the theory, take out BC and check the difference in frame-rate.

» Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:49 am

Just a quick note, oblivion renders and processes everything in the direction you are facing, e.g. go to the Imperial Market district and face the entrance of stonewall shields. All the objects, doors, NPC's etc. behind the wall and what you can actually see are rendered and processed, not just the door and the wall. Just something to consider. Even using super-optimized files can be a heavy strain on your computer. It really comes down to quantity, not quality.

I don't use Better Cities, but from the images and what I have heard about it, it can be pretty difficult running it at a good rate when you have a lot of other things going on in the background. Just to test the theory, take out BC and check the difference in frame-rate.

The BC description says it won't run at good rates. You should be jumping for joy if you are making 20FPS in the IC...

» Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:27 pm

There is a reason artists have a set amount of polys they are allowed to have on each model, more polygons means more resources needed. Better cities more then quadruples the amount of models in a cell. This of course means it quadruples the resources necessary. So you get reduced framerates.

I don't get why this is surprising. When you change the object slider you lower the amount of models and distance that are rendered and thereby you free up lots of resources.

When i tried better cities it halved my frame rates in market district.

Also sorry if i come of as condescending cause that is not my aim.

» Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:55 pm

Also, quick note, the VRAM usage is not a full indicator of how much your GPU is being taxed, check the # of polys for a better idea. Your GPU is the "weakest" link (the extra GB just means you can load larger texture mods), hence why lowering the slider helps the fps so much (and with BC, this result is exponential considering the amount of detail BC adds).